It's ALIVE! Head Transplant Surgery

[MrDakka]

I don't know if anyone else has seen this, but its basically an outline on how to how to transplant human heads with a spinal link to a donor body.

Here's the press release: http://www.pressbox.co.uk/detailed/Scie ... 05861.html

And here's the link to the actual paper: http://www.surgicalneurologyint.com/tem ... 171853.pdf

[Mr Bean]

So now here's the question if we can manage head transplants and we got them working reliably, how long would some rich guy last if he had clone bodies grown so on his 61st birthday he get's a brand new clone body grown to match his twenty year old self?

That was my first thought, my second thought was even crazier, does this mean head in a jar technology is on it's way?

[Singular Intellect]

"You have a good head on your shoulders."
"Thanks. Just had it installed last week."


Quite an interesting development. In retrospect I suppose this is rather obvious an outcome, but I personally focus on other technology and medical applications, so I didn't see this one coming.

[Mr Bean]

Iif you can swap your head to a new body... what does that mean for the trans community?

Granted we still have the whole "need one headless body" but a friend of mine brought this up when messaging her on Skype. It's a brave new world we live in.

[Singular Intellect]

I honestly suspect that genetic engineering and nanotechnology will simply regenerate and alter existing bodies in a far less traumatic and desirable way before this process has a chance of becoming a relatively mainstream scenario. I don't doubt there is good chance it will be done, but again I suspect it will be more like one of those things we can do but have to real need for.

[Crossroads Inc.]

The problem with transplantign a head, or even a Brain, is that the object in question is still OLD.

What does it matter if you put the brain of a 70year old into the body of a 20 year old? The brain is still 70 years old and will be startign to suffer from various forms of decay and degradation. Sure having a nice healthy body will dramatically improve somones life style. But what happens when the brain reaches 120+ Years of age? What happens when you put a brain in someone and decades later it has decayed into total dementia, b ut the body is still 30yo?

[Mr Bean]

The problem with transplantign a head, or even a Brain, is that the object in question is still OLD.

What does it matter if you put the brain of a 70year old into the body of a 20 year old? The brain is still 70 years old and will be startign to suffer from various forms of decay and degradation. Sure having a nice healthy body will dramatically improve somones life style. But what happens when the brain reaches 120+ Years of age? What happens when you put a brain in someone and decades later it has decayed into total dementia, b ut the body is still 30yo?

Then you devote your money to regenerative therapies. People very rarely die of dead brains but they do tend to die a lot of things like heart disease, cancer and the accidents of getting old. A new 30 year old body makes it possible to make it to our theoretical endpoint of 160 science has been tossing around as the max age our brain can last to.

Besides that just think of the massive quality of life issue improvements. Let me put it bluntly, by the time your in 60's... things HURT, some part of your body is busted. Some joint is out of whack, some physical injury has now become a permanent hindered.

[Eleas]

I could see growing new bodies as viable down the line, but quite frankly, I'm revolted by the thought that this would be confined to the already super-rich. Far too many people today don't even get one decent decade of life, let alone centuries.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Wouldn't this mean re-learning a whole lot of basic skills like walking and balance? All your muscle memory will be buggered too I should think.

[cosmicalstorm]

Seems like a problematic process. But it sounds reasonable. I was sad to note that traumatic spinal injuries were still difficult to repair. There seems to be a lot of progress made in reprogramming stem cells. I wonder if it will be possible to get a series of injections, for instance into the heart, that would cause it to at least partially regenerate.

[Eleas]

One interesting, if ghoulish, consequence is that we may be able to tell how much a healthy body truly affects a healthy mind...

Too mordant?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Without a better understanding of senility and dementia, things that can affect anyone in old age, it seems unlikely that this would be an escape from normal mortality for everyone who tries it, all else being equal.

Heart disease is trivial compared to fixing an amyloid plaque in the brain.

[Broomstick]

Besides that just think of the massive quality of life issue improvements. Let me put it bluntly, by the time your in 60's... things HURT, some part of your body is busted. Some joint is out of whack, some physical injury has now become a permanent hindered.

Actually, for a lot of us that's true by the 40's...

The thing is, if you can't get the spinal cord ends to rejoin and learn to talk to each other all you've got is a quadriplegic. Now, sure, quads can live meaningful, fulfilling lives but it's not exactly "a new body" in the sense it's usually meant. Has he actually proven that his technique will work? And where the hell would you get human volunteers? While I have no doubt some people would take life as a quad over death it's not appealing to most. And if this technique DOES work could it have application for those with spinal cord injuries? I mean, if the lesion is small enough could you cut it out (you'd probably have to remove a vertebrae or two) and then fuse the cut ends of the spinal cord to restore some function?

Anyhow - the ethical pitfalls on this one are deep.

[Broomstick]

Wouldn't this mean re-learning a whole lot of basic skills like walking and balance? All your muscle memory will be buggered too I should think.

Yep, that's for sure. Heck, just being bedridden for a few months can require therapy in order to balance and walk again. This would be much more problematic.

Without a better understanding of senility and dementia, things that can affect anyone in old age, it seems unlikely that this would be an escape from normal mortality for everyone who tries it, all else being equal.

Heart disease is trivial compared to fixing an amyloid plaque in the brain.

Not all dementia is from Alzheimer's. My mother's, for example, was due to poor circulation in her brain (vascular dementia). Hers never became particularly severe, but there was no doubt her weakening heart contributed a great deal to the problem. In her case a new body with a strong, undamaged heart may not have reversed all the damage but it almost certainly would have improved her functioning just because her brain would be better oxygenated.

Malfunctioning organs, such as liver or kidneys, can also impair mental function, which can improve markedly after transplant (or even just dialysis for the kidneys).

So there are problem a limited number of conditions where such a body/head transplant would result in improvement. On the other hand, people with major paralysis problems seldom live normal lifespans due to the complications of not moving enough. So, yeah, maybe another 10-20 years of life but even with a hypothetical 20 year old body you would probably need another in just a decade or two, and that's assuming your brain is still worth saving.

[Zaune]

Iif you can swap your head to a new body... what does that mean for the trans community?

If you mean people with gender identity disorder, it sounds like it should be the perfect solution, but unfortunately M-to-F sufferers -a term I use with great reluctance- outnumber F-to-M by a considerable margin. Simply arranging a straight swap would not always be practical.

[Iroscato]

Wouldn't this mean re-learning a whole lot of basic skills like walking and balance? All your muscle memory will be buggered too I should think.

Eh, I for one would certainly take that over never walking again. What's a few years to a lifetime?
I'm just thinking about the immune response to this amongst other things, there must be a shitload of problems to overcome before this becomes anything like available to the public.

[Simon_Jester]

Besides that just think of the massive quality of life issue improvements. Let me put it bluntly, by the time your in 60's... things HURT, some part of your body is busted. Some joint is out of whack, some physical injury has now become a permanent hindered.

Actually, for a lot of us that's true by the 40's...

The thing is, if you can't get the spinal cord ends to rejoin and learn to talk to each other all you've got is a quadriplegic. Now, sure, quads can live meaningful, fulfilling lives but it's not exactly "a new body" in the sense it's usually meant. Has he actually proven that his technique will work? And where the hell would you get human volunteers? While I have no doubt some people would take life as a quad over death it's not appealing to most. And if this technique DOES work could it have application for those with spinal cord injuries? I mean, if the lesion is small enough could you cut it out (you'd probably have to remove a vertebrae or two) and then fuse the cut ends of the spinal cord to restore some function?

Anyhow - the ethical pitfalls on this one are deep.

The techniques will most likely be tested on a variety of spinal injuries, until they become reliable enough that someone who's dying is willing to take a chance on an experimental head transplant. That's how this kind of thing usually goes.

[MrDakka]

I'm just thinking about the immune response to this amongst other things, there must be a shitload of problems to overcome before this becomes anything like available to the public.

I can only imagine the sheer amount of immunosuppressive drugs and antibody treatments one would have to take if there is a rejection.

That was my first thought, my second thought was even crazier, does this mean head in a jar technology is on it's way?

You mean like Cain in Robocop II?

You'd still need better interfaces between the nerves and sensors, although the prosthetics industry is already hard at work on that front.