BREAKING Asiana Flight 214 Crashes at SFO (Boeing 777)

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Based on my understanding of black box locations on a Boeing 777, they should be in the debris field, which means either scattered on the ground or in the water around the riprap.

[Broomstick]

Well, even if it's in the water at least it's not submerged as deep as that French flight a few years ago, I expect they'll find it soon.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Well, even if it's in the water at least it's not submerged as deep as that French flight a few years ago, I expect they'll find it soon.

Yeah, even with all the crap and muck in a commercial harbour it's a couple days at most.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Investigators are indeed focusing on an initial impact on the seawall before the events the eyewitnesses are describing as the crash.

SAN FRANCISCO--Federal authorities are looking into whether an Asiana Airlines jetliner clipped a sea wall before crashing at San Francisco International Airport Sunday, killing one person and injuring dozens, sources said.

Mechanical difficulties have not been ruled out, but investigators are focused on whether Asiana flight 214 from Seoul, South Korea, came in too low, according to sources familiar with the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity. The plane appear to hit the seawall dividing the airport runway from San Francisco Bay, possibly causing the tail to come apart.

Multiple sources said there was no reported trouble or declared emergency on the plane that was carrying nearly 300 people until the flight crash landed.

Witnesses described the plane coming in very low, and pictures and video from the accident appear to show that the debris field began at the sea wall and stretched for hundreds of feet.

Asked at a news conference if pilot error was a factor, Deborah Hersman, chairwoman of the National Transportation Safety Board, said “everything’s on table at this point. We have to gather all the facts before we reach any conclusions.”

Hersman said that federal investigators are deploying now to probe the reasons behind the crash. She said officials from South Korea will also be invited to participate in the investigation.

[Flagg]

And heeeer come the scum!

Some Hotel Room Rates Soar Following SFO Plane Crash
By Jenna Susko | Sunday, Jul 7, 2013 | Updated 12:25 AM PDT

Hotels around San Francisco International Airport have been flooded with passengers whose flights were delayed or canceled because of Saturday’s crash of Asiana Airlines Flight 214.

Most hotels were sold out, and the NBC Bay Area Investigative Unit found that some appeared to be charging a lot more because of the crash.

Some rooms were advertised online for up to $1,200 Saturday night -- rooms that normally go for $100 to $200. It’s a drastically higher rate than for a typical Saturday night. Just about every hotel the Unit called was sold out.

The Best Western in South San Francisco is listed at $140 to $150 a night over the next month. But after the crash, it was advertised as $999. It’s now sold out. The Unit asked the manager about the increase. He said, "Sometimes the price goes up," and he was not interested in commenting further.

Other hotels are also listing high prices online. When the Unit called about the rates, they said people who need a room bad enough will pay it.

UPDATE 7/7/13: David Huddleston, the Operations Manager at Best Western in South San Francisco, says he set the rate of $999/night online by mistake. Huddleston claims the employee who told NBC Bay Area on the phone the rate was $999, was also wrong. Huddleston says the problem has been corrected and claims no one was charged that elevated price. The hotel advertises rooms for $309/night on Monday, July 8th, which Huddleston confirms is correct. That same room is listed at $149 other nights in July.

Send us your tips: If you hear of anything that you would consider a bad business practice as a direct result of this tragedy, call the Investigative Unit’s tipline at 888-996-TIPS or send an email to TheUnit@NBCBayArea.com.

Fucking price gougers are the worst kind of scum sucking fuckholes on Earth. Capitalism!

[JME2]

Disgusting. I'm absolutely disgusted.

[TimothyC]

I tuned into the NTSB briefing about the flight recorders late, and they noted that the engines were on idle on the decent with the throttles being advanced in the seconds prior to the crash.

[Alyeska]

Both fatalities were listed as "found" outside the airplane. Based on the condition of the airplane it seems they managed to escape (or were pulled out) the airplane before expiring from injuries. The hull looked too intact for them to have been thrown.

[FSTargetDrone]

(Sorry, double post)

[FSTargetDrone]

Both fatalities were listed as "found" outside the airplane. Based on the condition of the airplane it seems they managed to escape (or were pulled out) the airplane before expiring from injuries. The hull looked too intact for them to have been thrown.

There were stories that some of the flight attendants were found crawling out of the water, which seems dubious too. But we'll see.

Here are some interesting views:





Looks like the tail debris is mostly concentrated to the right of the centerline (on the left, here).

[FSTargetDrone]

Not the best video, but you can see how the aircraft slews around after the impact.

[Rogue 9]

Here's a video shot by someone in the terminal:

Linka. The aircraft was previously reported to be completely engulfed, but that clearly happened later as you can see the main part of the fuselage intact and not-engulfed with the evacuation slides deployed, so we may hope that the number of survivors is in fact high.

This video has been removed as a violation of YouTube's policy against spam, scams, and commercially deceptive content.

[Broomstick]

Both fatalities were listed as "found" outside the airplane. Based on the condition of the airplane it seems they managed to escape (or were pulled out) the airplane before expiring from injuries. The hull looked too intact for them to have been thrown.

Apparently, the two fatalities were those seated at the very rear of the airplane, which as we all know was heavily damaged/snapped/scraped off on the runway. It's possible they simply fell out the back. The hull looks intact but from some of the photos I've seem it's pretty obvious (to me) there's a hole in the ass end of the 777.

Some of the other survivors were critically injured, including reports of spinal injury. Given how the airplane slews around in the video I'm not entirely surprised.

Some survivors, seeing the airplane was burning, might have run for the water but came back when emergency personnel showed up. Frankly, my inclination would have been to run like hell away from the crash site if I were at all able to do so.

And, um, yay the age of ubiquitous cell phone cameras? I was waiting for video of the crash to surface, these days it seems inevitable someone will have captured whatever newsworthy event occurred. The upside is that it makes analyzing such events easier by providing more data.

[FSTargetDrone]

Apparently, the two fatalities were those seated at the very rear of the airplane, which as we all know was heavily damaged/snapped/scraped off on the runway. It's possible they simply fell out the back. The hull looks intact but from some of the photos I've seem it's pretty obvious (to me) there's a hole in the ass end of the 777.

I think you may be right about the hole in the rear of the cabin. I didn't notice it at first, but it appears that there may be a tear in the pressure bulkhead? In the first image I stuck in my second post at the start of the thread, if you look at the yellow-green bulkhead, part of it seems ripped away (upper left quadrant, so to speak, as you look at it from the rear). It may be that the whole left edge of that structure is out of place. Hard to tell, as the photo is so blurry. I need to try and find some better pictures of that area.

And, um, yay the age of ubiquitous cell phone cameras? I was waiting for video of the crash to surface, these days it seems inevitable someone will have captured whatever newsworthy event occurred. The upside is that it makes analyzing such events easier by providing more data.

I'd be very surprised if we don't see video (or at the very least an audio recording) taken from inside. Given that the plane is jostled so much, interior video may be useless.

And speaking of which, from the way the plane comes down, it's remarkable that there have been so few deaths. The fuselage seems to have held up fairly well, all things considered. That's a rather impressive piece of engineering. Boeing should be proud.

[Alyeska]

I remember watching video on the Triple 7 back in the 90s. That thing is seriously engineered. The wings could sustain tremendous stress before breaking. And this crash is evidence of that. It freaking cartwheeled and the wings remained intact.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

It's been reported today that they are presently investigating the very serious and highly disturbing prospect that one of the women killed was actually hit by one of the responding fire trucks after evacuating successfully and killed by it. The other was apparently ripped out of the aft pressure bulkhead on the impact with the seawall. My initial theory was correct; they were stalling and at extremely low altitude and couldn't abort the landing in time to avoid striking the riprap on the seawall.

[Broomstick]

And speaking of which, from the way the plane comes down, it's remarkable that there have been so few deaths. The fuselage seems to have held up fairly well, all things considered. That's a rather impressive piece of engineering. Boeing should be proud.

The benefits of accident analysis at work. Modern seats are much better at absorbing impact and less likely to break free from the floor. Also, the interior furnishings of airplane cabins these days are more fire resistant than in prior decades, which gives people a few more precious seconds to get the hell out of a burning airplane. Seats breaking free and crushing people and cabin fires used to be big killers in otherwise survivable landings, new designs try to mitigate those problems. The exits on the 777 were designed and placed to empty out the full loaded airplane in 90 second or less - and with the fuselage starting to burn people certainly had an incentive to make that less rather than more time.

I remember watching video on the Triple 7 back in the 90s. That thing is seriously engineered. The wings could sustain tremendous stress before breaking. And this crash is evidence of that. It freaking cartwheeled and the wings remained intact.

I don't think it actually cartwheeled... at one point one of wings comes up then falls back down, but I think that was a belly-slide the whole way. The fuselage spun on its belly during the slide but did not actually roll over. And while the major portion of the structure remained intact not only were the engine pylons snapped off but it looks like the left wing is missing the ailerons and flaps. Even so, the 777 is now revealed as a "crash worthy" airplane that can provide substantial protection to occupants while subjected to some very imposing physical forces.

Which won't prevent lawsuits against Boeing, of course. But I'm glad so many people survived this accident. I just hope the injured make a good recovery though I fear there will be some permanent injuries out of this.

[TimothyC]

Apparently, the two fatalities were those seated at the very rear of the airplane, which as we all know was heavily damaged/snapped/scraped off on the runway. It's possible they simply fell out the back. The hull looks intact but from some of the photos I've seem it's pretty obvious (to me) there's a hole in the ass end of the 777.

SAN FRANCISCO – An autopsy is scheduled Monday to determine whether one of the two 16-year-old girls killed in the crash of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 died of injuries sustained when she was run over by arriving emergency vehicles or from the plane crash itself.

San Mateo County Coroner Robert Foucrault says he was told there was a possibility one of the victims may have sustained fatal injuries from a source "other than the airplane crash."

Foucrault said senior San Francisco Fire Department officials notified him and his staff at the crash site on Saturday that one of the girls may have been struck on the runway. The victim was found by the left wing, about 30 feet from the aircraft fuselage.

He says he arrived about 45 minutes after the crash and was pointed to the locations of the two deceased by fire officials. While one was found next to the plane, he said the other body was found nearer to the point of first impact, where the plane struck the seawall before the runway threshold. The plane's tail and landing gear separated from the rest of the fuselage.

The two teenage girls who died were identified Sunday as Ye Mengyuan and Wang Linjia from China's eastern Zhejiang province, according to China Central TV. They were among a group of young Chinese nationals who were to spend three weeks at a church summer camp program in Los Angeles.

Foucrault says first responders – including his deputies – train extensively for plane crashes. But the scene that firefighters encountered on Runway 28 Left would have been difficult to comprehend: 307 aboard the jetliner, with about 180 of them injured.

San Francisco Fire Department Chief Joanne M. Hayes-White, appearing on KGO-TV, described the scene as "chaotic" when she arrived about 20 minutes after the crash.

"We were dealing with a fire emergency and medical emergencies, and literally hundreds and hundreds of passengers and patients," she said.

We should know more when the autopsy results get released.

[FSTargetDrone]

I don't think it actually cartwheeled... at one point one of wings comes up then falls back down, but I think that was a belly-slide the whole way. The fuselage spun on its belly during the slide but did not actually roll over. And while the major portion of the structure remained intact not only were the engine pylons snapped off but it looks like the left wing is missing the ailerons and flaps. Even so, the 777 is now revealed as a "crash worthy" airplane that can provide substantial protection to occupants while subjected to some very imposing physical forces.

Here is a very poor, but closer view of the crash. It looks like someone took the video off of a TV screen. Anyway, at 15 seconds, the aircraft looks like does come up off of the ground, sliding along on its nose and left-hand wingtip for about a second or so (direct YouTube link if you want to enlarge it):



Also, the tail (the vertical stabilizer, anyway) seems to separate at about 0:08, just as the crashing aircraft passes behind the other one in the foreground.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I just literally saw this on the news just now, sad that two people died- I saw a documentary series a week or so ago about this kind of thing- "Terror in the skies" which had interviews with, among others, Deborah Hersman (what can I say, I think she's hot... ).

Apparently the pilot only had 48hr flight time in the 777, though the report I saw curiously omitted how many total hours he had.

EDIT: I flew on a 777 ten years ago to the Caribbean, it was parked on the runway next to a 747. I couldn't help but notice the size difference between the engines of the two.

[Broomstick]

I heard the official time in type was 43 hours. The copilot was more experienced but at some point a pilot has to start flying a plane and, believe it or not, it's not uncommon these days for the first time a pilot lands an airliner like a 777 in real life it's on a work run full of passengers. Most training takes place in simulators these days and for the most part it works well.

10,000 hours total in all types is what I've been hearing about the pilot doing the actual flying.

[Knife]

News was reporting this morning that the pilot had a couple thousand hours in the air, but was pretty new at the 777. Does pretty much look like pilot error at this point. Too bad, you gotta be new at some point. It is absolutely amazing that so many people lived through this.

[Eternal_Freedom]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23222048

That contains both the 43 hours in type number for the pilot as well as the possibility that one of the fatalities was hit by a fire truck as Duchess mentioned.

My main thought is annoyance that in British news this major incident is entirelyovershadowed by sodding Wimbeldon.

[Broomstick]

To be fair, Wimbledon is a story taking place in the UK, whereas the crash in San Francisco would be of more immediate concern to those in South Korea and the US. I expect people to be more interested in local news for the most part. That, and with such a low death toll the bad landing is not as attention grabbing as it might otherwise be.

[Eternal_Freedom]

True, but this crash landing hasn't even been mentioned on the news that I can recall. It may have turned up on News 24 but not on the main program.