Pope Francis keeps doing stuff like this, and I may just start liking the Church.Pope Francis lays down the law on child sex abuse on Vatican grounds
From Hada Messia, CNN
updated 3:37 PM EDT, Thu July 11, 2013
Pope Francis on a recent trip to Lampedusa island in Italy on July 8, 2013.
Pope Francis on a recent trip to Lampedusa island in Italy on July 8, 2013.
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
NEW: Abuse victims advocacy group dismisses the law as a "feel good gesture"
Any form of child pornography is also forbidden under pope's new initiative
The new laws include other measures to ensure humane behavior by church officials
They are part of an update to the Vatican's legal system started by Pope Benedict XVI
Rome (CNN) -- Pope Francis has laid down a law making it a crime to abuse children sexually or physically on Vatican grounds, the Holy See announced Thursday.
The acts were already crimes under church law, but are now specifically outlawed within the Vatican city-state, which is home to hundreds of people.
The legislation also covers child prostitution and the creation or possession of child pornography.
But it has a "broader scope," according to Radio Vatican.
Pope's first trip shuns pageantry
It adds provisions of international laws against war crimes, racial discrimination and humiliating treatment or punishment to the Vatican's legal system.
It includes wording from the Geneva Conventions.
Francis issued the new laws as a "moto proprio," meaning that the document was his own initiative, Vatican Radio said.
The new criminal laws are part of an ongoing update of the Vatican's legal system, which began under Pope Benedict XVI.
The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, a U.S. advocacy group for victims of abuse by priests and other clergy, dismissed the law as "a feel good gesture."
"For the Vatican's image, this is a successful move. For children's safety, this is another setback ... because it will help foster the false impression of reform and will lead to more complacency," said SNAP director David Clohessy in a written statement. "The church hierarchy doesn't need new rules on abuse. It needs to follow long-established secular laws on abuse. And it needs to push for, not oppose, real reforms to archaic, predator-friendly secular laws (like the statute of limitations)."
In April: Pope tells Vatican to 'act decisively' sex abuse cases
CNN's Hada Messia reported from Rome; Ben Brumfield wrote in Atlanta.
Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
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Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
I'd feel more comfortable with the updated laws if they weren't packaged with anti-leaker measures that make it less likely that people guilty under the other new laws will actually ever be found out.USA Today wrote:VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis overhauled the laws that govern the Vatican City state on Thursday, criminalizing leaks of Vatican information and specifically listing sexual violence, prostitution and possession of child pornography as crimes against children that can be punished by up to 12 years in prison.
The legislation covers clergy and lay people who live and work in Vatican City and is different from the canon law that covers the universal Catholic Church.
The bulk of the Vatican's penal code is based on the 1889 Italian code. Many of the new provisions were necessary to bring the city state's legal system up to date after the Holy See signed international treaties, such as the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Others were necessary to comply with international norms to fight money-laundering, part of the Vatican's push toward financial transparency.
One new crime stands out, though, as an obvious response to the leaks of papal documents last year that represented one of the gravest Vatican security breaches in recent times.
Paolo Gabriele, the butler for then-Pope Benedict XVI, was tried and convicted by a Vatican court of stealing Benedict's personal papers and giving them to an Italian journalist, Gianluigi Nuzzi.
Using the documents, Nuzzi published a blockbuster book on the petty turf wars, bureaucratic dysfunction and allegations of corruption and homosexual liaisons that afflict the highest levels of Catholic Church governance.
Gabriele, who said he wanted to expose the "evil and corruption" that plagued the Holy See, was convicted of aggravated theft and sentenced to 18 months in the Vatican's police barracks. Benedict eventually pardoned him and he is now a free man.
But his crime devastated the Vatican, shattering the confidentiality that typically governs correspondence with the pope.
In an indication of how serious the Vatican considers such confidentiality, the penalties for violations of the new law are stiff: Anyone who reveals or receives confidential information or documentation risks six months to two years in prison and a €2,000 euro ($2,500) fine; the penalty goes up to eight years in prison if the material concerns the "fundamental interests" of the Holy See or its diplomatic relations with other countries.
Judge Giuseppe Dalla Torre, the president of the Vatican tribunal who presided over Gabriele's trial, acknowledged Thursday that the Gabriele case could be seen as having an influence on the new crime, though he said the crime itself was "irrelevant" to the overall reform.
But the crime of leaking Vatican information never existed before in the Vatican legal system. Sexual crimes did exist, albeit in a general form in the archaic code as a crime against "good customs."
The new law gives a broader definition of the crimes against children, including the sale of children, child prostitution, recruiting children, sexual violence, sexual acts with children and the production and possession of child pornography.
In the old code, such general crimes would have carried a maximum penalty of three to 10 years, the Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said. Under the revision, the punishments go from five to 10 years, with aggravating circumstances bringing the maximum up to 12 years, he said.
It considers a minor anyone under age 18, and allows Vatican prosecutors to pursue the case on their own even if the victim or his or her guardians choose not to make a criminal complaint.
Dalla Torre stressed that just because such acts are illegal now doesn't mean they were legal before. It merely means that, 100 years ago, child pornography was not specified as a crime in either the Italian legal code or the Vatican's.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
I think the anti leaker laws are just part of modernizing the law code to something akin to what modern states utilize. I am not too fond of it either, but a state has the right to settle its own matters internally, just like any other. Over all I do like how Pope Francis has been normalizing Vatican city, still keeping its Catholic nature while also bringing it into line with the modern world in legal structure. Though (for the record, I'm a practicing catholic so I'm a bit biased) I did not hate Benedict as much as many people, I do agree that Francis is doing a much better job.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
What the Church really needs is a policy for what to do about child abusers within its own ranks, which is not the same as this. It at least suggests that Francis might be willing to do something about the problem, but represents neither constructive nor destructive action at this time.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
It is typical for this pope so far - do a few token things that look good but don't meddle too much in actual church policy.
The title of "compassionate reactionary" would fit him well.
The title of "compassionate reactionary" would fit him well.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
There is a limit as to how much actual change the pope can do. Much like the president of the US, he's powerful but is still limited to mostly major high end stuff and international affairs. The actual nitty gritty of the church is strongly concentrated in the middle at the arch bishop level.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
It's only been, what, four months since he took office? If (no guarantees) Francis wants to reform the Church's approach to child abuse, or to corruption scandals in general, he'll probably have to organize a major meeting of Church officials, engage in political wheeling and dealing, and so on.
Unfortunately, he can't just order "henceforth we will excommunicate any clergyman who molests children or covers up a case of child molestation" and expect it to work effectively, unless he can create a group of people willing to back him up on that (probably easy) and organized enough to actually break through the wall of silence on the issue (probably hard).
But there is no guarantee that Francis is interested in this kind of drastic change; if he hasn't done anything substantiative in five years then that's evidence he hasn't. Expecting it in five months is a slightly different story.
Unfortunately, he can't just order "henceforth we will excommunicate any clergyman who molests children or covers up a case of child molestation" and expect it to work effectively, unless he can create a group of people willing to back him up on that (probably easy) and organized enough to actually break through the wall of silence on the issue (probably hard).
But there is no guarantee that Francis is interested in this kind of drastic change; if he hasn't done anything substantiative in five years then that's evidence he hasn't. Expecting it in five months is a slightly different story.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
If the pope wants something done then that something will get done, provided he pours enough capital into it. The whole celibacy issue proved that, as well as the second lateran council.TheNotoriousAMP wrote: But there is no guarantee that Francis is interested in this kind of drastic change; if he hasn't done anything substantiative in five years then that's evidence he hasn't. Expecting it in five months is a slightly different story.
He is not some liberal reformer nor does he paint himself as such.Simon_Jester wrote: Unfortunately, he can't just order "henceforth we will excommunicate any clergyman who molests children or covers up a case of child molestation" and expect it to work effectively, unless he can create a group of people willing to back him up on that (probably easy) and organized enough to actually break through the wall of silence on the issue (probably hard).
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
You are essentially correct, though I wouldn't be surprised if the definition of "enough capital" has gotten more restrictive in the millenium or so since the events you describe.Thanas wrote:If the pope wants something done then that something will get done, provided he pours enough capital into it. The whole celibacy issue proved that, as well as the second lateran council.
Though it really should not be that hard to get the Catholic Church to openly and violently scorn child abuse of all things. Gah!
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I agree with you.He is not some liberal reformer nor does he paint himself as such.Simon_Jester wrote:Unfortunately, he can't just order "henceforth we will excommunicate any clergyman who molests children or covers up a case of child molestation" and expect it to work effectively, unless he can create a group of people willing to back him up on that (probably easy) and organized enough to actually break through the wall of silence on the issue (probably hard).
My point is that even if he were committed to doing this, it would probably take months of groundlaying and possibly years to put an effective policy in place. New thoughts in the brain of such a vast dinosaur take far too long to reach the tip of its tail, sadly.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
Well, the second vatican council also had a lot of changes and that was just under 50 years ago.Simon_Jester wrote:You are essentially correct, though I wouldn't be surprised if the definition of "enough capital" has gotten more restrictive in the millenium or so since the events you describe.Thanas wrote:If the pope wants something done then that something will get done, provided he pours enough capital into it. The whole celibacy issue proved that, as well as the second lateran council.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
In some ways, the Second Vatican Council shows the limits of what the Pope can enforce, though-crazy Catholic arch-conservatives overstate this point, but it is essentially true-John XXIII wanted the Mass to remain in Latin, and it didn't, largely because the bishops made changes on their own.Thanas wrote: Well, the second vatican council also had a lot of changes and that was just under 50 years ago.
Enormous changes came out of the Second Vatican, but they weren't necessarily directed by the Pope. I don't think there will be another Pius IX in the near future. I am curious to see what will be following from Francis, though.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
Probably a greater emphasis on structural changes within the church and an end to the great debates over theology that used to be the hallmark of the pope's transformative role. I think Pope Benedict's reign has shown that there is no longer a real place for theological debate in modern day society, if anything the basic debate is how theology is going to be preserved in the firstplace. Another important matter is that Bishops and Arch Bishops have gotten a lot more powerful since vatican II, in part thanks to the switch from universal latin to local languages meaning that a French priest can't switch in for a Brazilian one and vice versa. If you look at the sex scandal itself, a lot of it was at the bishop and arch bishop level, with people trying to protect their own parishes and the pope then was faced with internal pressure to hide it all, especially considering the already flagging condition of the church at the time. So I would be a bit reticent to expect Francis to be Super Mecha Space Buddha who saves the world, he is taking the church on a path more towards the second of its traditional roles, the protector of the poor. In this case being conservative is not a bad thing, as conservative Catholicism also entails an immense sense of responsibility towards the poor and the weak. Its just that under Benedict the theological side got more publicity.CarsonPalmer wrote:In some ways, the Second Vatican Council shows the limits of what the Pope can enforce, though-crazy Catholic arch-conservatives overstate this point, but it is essentially true-John XXIII wanted the Mass to remain in Latin, and it didn't, largely because the bishops made changes on their own.Thanas wrote: Well, the second vatican council also had a lot of changes and that was just under 50 years ago.
Enormous changes came out of the Second Vatican, but they weren't necessarily directed by the Pope. I don't think there will be another Pius IX in the near future. I am curious to see what will be following from Francis, though.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
Ah. So previous and existing laws establishing such crimes didn't apply to the church, and only just now they're making such a law applying within their property lines?FaxModem1 wrote:Rome (CNN) -- Pope Francis has laid down a law making it a crime to abuse children sexually or physically on Vatican grounds, the Holy See announced Thursday.
How is anyone supposed to be anything but disgusted and horrified by this move? If my neighbor comes out and says he's now establishing a rule in his house that beating and raping kids in it is no longer allowed, am I supposed to be impressed and not horrified that was ever acceptable in the first place, never mind him thinking laws already in place didn't apply within his little domain?
This news is really just sickening with its hypocrisy and self important double standards, honestly.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
Who exactly holds sovereignty over the Vatican, Singular? I'm pretty sure your neighbor isn't a sovereign nation.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
Ah, so crimes against humanity are fine if you can claim sovereignty then, eh? Fuck me, guess we owe the Nazis an apology!xthetenth wrote:Who exactly holds sovereignty over the Vatican, Singular? I'm pretty sure your neighbor isn't a sovereign nation.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
The Holy See has sovereignty over the Vatican city state. And as the article already points out:
The Holy See isn't the same thing as the RCC but it is the episcopal jurisdiction of the Catholic Church in Rome. Canon Law therefore applies to its territory. There's plenty bad stuff to be said about the Catholic approach to the torrent of abuse scandals but to claim they are "only now" making laws about it that apply to their own property is patently false.The acts were already crimes under church law.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
Don't you think you yourself are also slanting it by neglecting to quote the very next line?Singular Intellect wrote:Ah. So previous and existing laws establishing such crimes didn't apply to the church, and only just now they're making such a law applying within their property lines?FaxModem1 wrote:Rome (CNN) -- Pope Francis has laid down a law making it a crime to abuse children sexually or physically on Vatican grounds, the Holy See announced Thursday.
How is anyone supposed to be anything but disgusted and horrified by this move? If my neighbor comes out and says he's now establishing a rule in his house that beating and raping kids in it is no longer allowed, am I supposed to be impressed and not horrified that was ever acceptable in the first place, never mind him thinking laws already in place didn't apply within his little domain?
This news is really just sickening with its hypocrisy and self important double standards, honestly.
The acts were already crimes under church law, but are now specifically outlawed within the Vatican city-state, which is home to hundreds of people.
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Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
So he says: child abuse is bad, yet we won't punish nor denouce the offending priests.
Wow, this Pope is great!
Wow, this Pope is great!
Re: Pope Francis lays down child abuse laws
Figured you needed help when you didn't actually manage to make a single accurate statement. They're doing colossally little, but it is actually an improvement no matter how deep in damning with faint praise territory they are.Singular Intellect wrote:Ah, so crimes against humanity are fine if you can claim sovereignty then, eh? Fuck me, guess we owe the Nazis an apology!xthetenth wrote:Who exactly holds sovereignty over the Vatican, Singular? I'm pretty sure your neighbor isn't a sovereign nation.