The newest "Destroyer" of the JMSDF

[Sea Skimmer]

Back on the topic of Japanese warships...

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1 ... -diplomacy

At least *some* modelmakers have some interesting fantasies as to what the Helicopter Destroyers will be up to

I'm not sure if that is more awesome for the fact that its steaming past a sinking PLAN carrier, or the fact that it clearly has amtracks parked on the flight deck ready to repel boarders.

[Sea Skimmer]

You realize that China is taking part in RIMPAC next year? Therefore, A2/AD and Air Sea Battle are just gigantic bluffs?

One Chinese ship was invited to take part in a search and rescue stage, about one step up from being a pure observer. NATO had Soviet warships invited to search and rescue exercises a few times too. Doesn't mean anything one way or another. The Korean and Japanese involvement and joint operations are on a vastly more important scale.

[Metahive]

Patroklos, your point is of no relevance. I was talking about a hypothetical Japan that has rebuild its military to IJN levels and ditched the pacifism clause of its constitution, ie, the Japan Stas alluded to. Hence why I was using the modifier "rearmed" Japan. Such a Japan will draw utter hostility from its neighbours, period. Korea was twice utterly devastated by a Japan that was allowed to unleash itself upon the area (1595 and 1910). A third time is not the charm. In Korea you can be sure that anti-japanese feelings way outweigh anti-chinese feelings (which mostly come about because of their support of North Korea anyway). Heck, for quite a long time Korea outright banned japanese cultural paraphernalia (hence why the korean version of Soul Calibur replaced the Samurai Mitsurugi with King Arthur). There was never was such a ban for chinese culture.

Kane, I disagree vehemently with your geopolitical observations. Japan has lots of incentive to try and aggressively influence its neighbors. They still suffer from the same problems that motivated them to go on an imperialist adventure from the late 1890's in the first place after all, namely the lack of farmland, habitable areas and natural resources on the home islands. And with reactionary rightwingers like Abe at the helm, I'd rather not trust them to stay peaceful with a strong military and without constitutional shackles.
There's simply no such incentive for China which profits way more from good relations to their neighbors. Mao was a warmonger who considered bringing maoist salvation to other countries with the barrel of a gun, but he's been dead for over 30 years and his supporters have been purged. This sinophobic scaremongering is just that, scaremongering.

[...]no one gives a shit about things like China going to war with Vietnam or being former imperial overlord of Korea.

Chinese suzerainty mostly consisted of making other nations swear to not wage war against China or aid its enemies and yearly tributes and kow-tows. Otherwise they were left alone and could do whatever they wanted. They even could hope for military assistance in case of war as happened in the Imjin War in 1595 when Japan attacked Korea. Certainly, there have been way worse imperial overlords than China.

[Kane Starkiller]

Kane, I disagree vehemently with your geopolitical observations. Japan has lots of incentive to try and aggressively influence its neighbors. They still suffer from the same problems that motivated them to go on an imperialist adventure from the late 1890's in the first place after all, namely the lack of farmland, habitable areas and natural resources on the home islands. And with reactionary rightwingers like Abe at the helm, I'd rather not trust them to stay peaceful with a strong military and without constitutional shackles.

Oh sure I already pointed out Japanese limited land area and natural resources as major reasons for naval expansion. These are pretty much permanent problems for Japan barring major technological breakthroughs and it could potentially lead Japan into further conflicts with its neighbors.
The best bet for smaller countries is that neither Japan nor China comes out as a clear dominant power in the region.

There's simply no such incentive for China which profits way more from good relations to their neighbors. Mao was a warmonger who considered bringing maoist salvation to other countries with the barrel of a gun, but he's been dead for over 30 years and his supporters have been purged. This sinophobic scaremongering is just that, scaremongering.

Actually I would say Maos internally focused China that didn't do any trade with outside world had far less of an incentive (or capability) to expand its navy. Current China which is heavily reliant on naval trade lines for exports and imports has much more of an incentive to expand its navy and step on the toes of its neighbors. (for example increasing tension over ownership of islands and thus gas and oil fields).
The fact is that there is a gradual alignment of smaller Asian nations like Vietnam,Phillipines,South Korea and Japan against China.
In fact there is even a budding military relationship between Vietnam and US that is pretty obviously directed at China.
So these are not really my private views as basically observations of events in West Pacific.

[Pelranius]

You realize that China is taking part in RIMPAC next year? Therefore, A2/AD and Air Sea Battle are just gigantic bluffs?

As an observer, just like Russia. Both South Korea and Japan are full members and thus have access to the meat of the exercise in a real tactical sense as opposed to just doing some freindship building like an observer.

That doesn't meant that Japan and South Korea are cooperating in those exercises, just because they're both allies with the U.S. If Seoul was actually scared of China, they'd find a way.

For actual concrete proof of Korea distrusting Japan, here's the scuttled intelligence sharing pact from last year.

<article snip>

The thing is still in limbo.

So the relationship is a far cry from perfect. The important thing to note in your article is SK and Japan are already engaged in military exchanges and partnerships. Claims that they are just staring at each other with spite across the sea and wouldn't piss on the other if he were on fire are obviously far from reality.

If they won't even sign a basic intelligence pact aimed at DPRK of all people, what chance does any meaningful security cooperation actually have? I don't see any signs beyond the dog and pony shows.

[hongi]

Actually, to be more correct, I am a misanthrope, which means I hate humanity as a whole. It's just that the Chinese race happens to be one of the top few races I particularly despise for what they stand for, if they stand for anything at all.

Racist tool.

In any case, N.E Asia has always struck me as resembling 1900s Europe in many ways, so I fully expect them to go to war in the next 20 years for whatever mundane face-saving reason they can think of. I honestly don't give a rat's ass how many people die in the attempt, but quite frankly, a weakened NE Asia is a good thing for rest of Asia.

Your life must be a particularly sad and pathetic one.

[mr friendly guy]

I am curious. If Fingolfin hates everybody, why the hell would he consider benefits to the rest of Asia as a good thing. Wouldn't his ideal situation be many people die in NE Asia and the rest of Asia, wait make that the rest of the world still gets fucked in the process.

Unless of course the "I hate everybody" line is just a smokescreen. Never seen that before.

[ray245]

I am curious. If Fingolfin hates everybody, why the hell would he consider benefits to the rest of Asia as a good thing. Wouldn't his ideal situation be many people die in NE Asia and the rest of Asia, wait make that the rest of the world still gets fucked in the process.

Unless of course the "I hate everybody" line is just a smokescreen. Never seen that before.

Well, he always had a hard on for western culture...so he is probably hoping to see all of Asia being transformed culturally into a western state.

[mr friendly guy]

Well, he always had a hard on for western culture...so he is probably hoping to see all of Asia being transformed culturally into a western state.

He obviously took the racist part permeating numerous Western nations to heart too. Good to know.

[AniThyng]

Just to be clear, fingolfin is Singaporean Chinese right? Not that labels ought to matter.. and you can't really deny that traditional Chinese culture is pretty racist and chauvinist.

[ray245]

Just to be clear, fingolfin is Singaporean Chinese right? Not that labels ought to matter.. and you can't really deny that traditional Chinese culture is pretty racist and chauvinist.

Of course, but it is still a poor excuse to be a racist. It's akin to using racist rednecks as an example to justify your hatred of every white person and "white culture" in general.