Obama being Orwellian, as usual

[Simon_Jester]

If the current administration successfully breaks this cycle, then we have a problem, because that political capital goes away.

But Serafina isn't wrong; it is a real possibility that this will not happen and that the system will continue to successfully sweep things under the rug. The main reason I tentatively project change

At some threshold of outrage, actual change is likely to take place: if not because of administration X being pushed into it, then because administration X+1 actually has political capital to gain by saying "we will no longer read the email of all Americans, unlike our predecessors," and demonstrably following through on that.

Or, like in most societies who had been faced with a choice like that, they will simply continue those policies, creating the new normal so much that the end result is a society which is utterly unrecognizable from the one it originated from. Your assumption that at some point the people will get fed up is not really proven in history. See Weimar for example.

Quite.

How'd Gitmo work out for you guys? There was some good outrage and one of Obama's key promises was to close the place down...

And Guantanamo is a prison camp located in a foreign country seldom visited by Americans, with only foreigners being held prisoner there. By contrast, "the NSA is reading your email and indexing it for later reference" actually affects American citizens directly.

It's not one-sided.

I'm not saying I am absolutely sure that this kind of surveillance will be reversed, or that people are somehow foolish for expecting it not to be. I have my own opinions on the matter, but I might well be optimistic.

On the other hand, I find it hard to grasp why some people almost seem to derive pleasure from predicting that things will not get better, but will instead get worse as a result of eternal, unshakable mass apathy.

[aerius]

By contrast, "the NSA is reading your email and indexing it for later reference" actually affects American citizens directly.

It's not one-sided.

I'm not saying I am absolutely sure that this kind of surveillance will be reversed, or that people are somehow foolish for expecting it not to be. I have my own opinions on the matter, but I might well be optimistic.

I think you're a bit optimistic, after all, Americans now accept TSA gropings, theft, and airport security theatre as a part of normal air travel. By comparison, the NSA vacuuming up all your personal data behind the scenes is an invisible non-event, you don't see it happen and don't feel any effects until the government uses it against you or it ends up in the wrong hands and gets used misused (say, for instance your emails about how you enjoy drinking wine ends up at your medical insurance co. and they drop your coverage or jack your rates).

It's actually far worse than that since the NSA wants to/is sucking up all the cell phone metadata from the carriers. This includes GPS data among other things so they'll have a complete picture of your day to day life, if you were in a liquor store, strip joint, or whatever, they know it. They'll know who you associate with, what you do on a day to day basis, what you eat, where you shit, if you're screwing off at work, pretty much everything. And all that is stored away, forever. It's 1984 bad, and that's not an exaggeration since some of the new cell phones coming out right now have a mic that's always on. You go think about that.

On the other hand, I find it hard to grasp why some people almost seem to derive pleasure from predicting that things will not get better, but will instead get worse as a result of eternal, unshakable mass apathy.

Here's my point of view: since when has a problem ever fixed itself while the people sat around doing nothing? I don't know what the tipping point is or what it'll take to get enough people pissed off enough to take action and change things for the better or force a change for the better. People lose their shit over trivial events such as the Trayvon Martin killing but can't be bothered to do a damn thing when much more important and fundamental rights are been taken away.

[Ralin]

It's 1984 bad, and that's not an exaggeration since some of the new cell phones coming out right now have a mic that's always on. You go think about that.

I was under the impression that couldn't be done legally, what with wiretapping laws and all.

[Edi]

It's 1984 bad, and that's not an exaggeration since some of the new cell phones coming out right now have a mic that's always on. You go think about that.

I was under the impression that couldn't be done legally, what with wiretapping laws and all.

And since when was that ever a concern for the NSA?

[Ralin]

And since when was that ever a concern for the NSA?

I imagine it would be for cell phone manufacturers?

[Eleas]

I imagine it would be for cell phone manufacturers?

I imagine it's hard to complain if by doing so they risk being charged with noncompliance in an unspecified operation against terrorists, the details of which cannot be divulged for security reasons.

[Ace Pace]

It's 1984 bad, and that's not an exaggeration since some of the new cell phones coming out right now have a mic that's always on. You go think about that.

I was under the impression that couldn't be done legally, what with wiretapping laws and all.

The microphone is constantly on (though not transmitting) to augment Google Now and Siri, to save you button presses.
Whether it's transmitting over the internet constantly is probably doubtful, but it's a technical question, not a policy one.

[Ralin]

Ah, guess I'm full of it.

I was remembering a conversation about you're not able to disable the click on most camera phones for privacy reasons, and I thought the same was true of audio recording.

[Simon_Jester]

An always-on microphone should damn well be disable-able; I sometimes simply do not get the modern massively intrusive Internet-systems trend...

[Zaune]

And to think I get funny looks for carrying a laptop around instead of a smartphone...

[Ralin]

An always-on microphone should damn well be disable-able; I sometimes simply do not get the modern massively intrusive Internet-systems trend...

Same principle I mean. Sorry, it's too early here.