Singapore healthcare reform

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PainRack
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Singapore healthcare reform

Post by PainRack »

First. A newspaper article before the National Day Rally Speech about our existing healthcare system.
(Article edited for word count, with no intent meant to plagarise.)
Whither our 3M healthcare system?

There are great expectations arising from the year-long Our Singapore Conversation. Many have expressed their concerns and wishes for the future development of healthcare. And recently, we have been deluged with many articles and commentaries on the advantages and disadvantages of the Singapore system, offering various diagnoses, prognoses and even policy lessons for other countries.

Healthcare consultant Dr Jeremy Lim As a frequent commentator on the local health scene recently noted that “it is not the invisible hand of the market that drives costs down in Singapore’s healthcare system. It is the very visible hand of a strong Government that does so, as regulator and in deciding what to subsidise and what not to subsidise”.

Dr William Haseltine’s recent book, Affordable Excellence: The Singapore Health Care Story, attracted both bouquets and brickbats from international reviewers on the left and right of the ideological spectrum. Lay users such as Financial Times Assistant Editor Gillian Tett, who personally tested the quality of Singapore’s health services, praised it in an article.

The system is held up as a model for achieving impressive health outcomes with a low level of spending compared to other developed countries. Dr Haseltine attributes this success to “managed capitalism”, with competition and informed consumers who are incentivised to keep costs down as they have to exercise “individual responsibility” and co-pay high user fees.

But like many other casual observers, he mistakenly links Singapore’s excellent standards of health — such as high life expectancy and low mortality rates — primarily to the merits of the 3M financing system: Medisave, MediShield and Medifund.

A recent editorial in the British Medical Journal by Professor Martin McKee and Professor Reinhard Busse expresses a similar basic misunderstanding of the Singapore system. They describe the notion of savings and individual responsibility (as encapsulated by Medisave, in particular) as anathema to the European values of equity and solidarity — concluding thus that the Singapore system has nothing to offer other countries.


30 YEARS ON, MEDISAVE RE-EVALUATED


So, are “pay as you go” systems of financing healthcare through taxation or social insurance doomed to certain bankruptcy in countries with very high elderly dependency ratios?

To answer this question, it is instructive to re-examine fundamental assumptions in the National Health Plan of 1983, when the idea of a national savings scheme for healthcare was first mooted — the first anywhere in the world.

Medisave as part of the Central Provident Fund was touted as the way to avoid the problems of inter-generational income transfer. The original intention was for every generation to build up its own nest egg, so it would not have to depend on limited contributions due to a shrinking tax base or insurance pool as the population aged.

Yet, 30 years later, we are saddled with the fears that, despite our huge savings — Medisave has accumulated savings of more than 10 years’ equivalent of our annual health spending — there will not be enough in the average individual’s Medisave account.

In fact, after Medisave was launched, it was soon realised that it needed back-up insurance coverage for catastrophic illnesses requiring higher expenditures. MediShield was thus born in 1990, as a low-cost and limited social insurance for dreaded diseases. Medifund was created as an endowment to pay the medical bills of the indigent or individuals whose families qualify after stringent means testing.

In an ideal situation, a well-designed and well-implemented 3M system would have become the dominant mode of financing over the years — instead of a situation where there is Medisave surplus for most people and inadequacy for many others. Its restrictive use has also led to the lop-sided, perverse use of hospitals, rather than encouraging alternatives and substitutes to hospital care.


MORE OUT-OF-POCKET COSTS


Meanwhile, we also have an imbalance in the other financing levers of taxation and user fees. While subventions to public hospitals are capped and subsidies are targeted, cost-recovery rates ranging from half to two-thirds of total hospital spending have resulted in more and more out-of-pocket payments being forced outside the 3M framework.

At the current rates of medical inflation and rising prices, many older and lower-income Singaporeans do not have enough in their Medisave, and may not want to burden their children or be stigmatised by applying for Medifund.

So, how do we correct the imbalances in healthcare financing?

Short of a radical overhaul, there are several adjustments needed to fine-tune the Government’s share of financing and the 3M schemes. Healthcare financing mechanisms would have to be realigned to create the necessary incentives for both users and providers to use healthcare services in a more cost-effective manner, and for these to be more affordable.

There are calls to avoid the excesses of generous welfare benefits or the abuses generated by for-profit insurance that induces unnecessary spending. Thus, it is prudent to move with caution in developing both the social and private insurance components of MediShield and the Integrated Shield Plans.

Yet, Singaporeans are lucky that they have built up a large pool of Medisave savings and still have the luxury of tapping these to enhance the insurance components for future catastrophic and long-term care.


FIVE CHANGES AHEAD?


It is expected that, in the coming days, the following measures would be announced and implemented:

One, increased budget allocation to cover rising costs in the health sector (the Government has signalled its intention to double its share in coming years), for outpatient care or long-term care of the elderly population, especially the lower-income.

Two, further liberalisation of Medisave to allow for greater coverage of chronic conditions — such as more preventive care like certain vaccinations and screening that may save on future treatment expenses.

Three, a shift of Medisave premiums into MediShield so as to provide greater social protection for larger catastrophic illness bills.

Four, the possible enhancement and integration of MediShield and ElderShield covering community-based services for long-term care.

Five, control of supply–side medical practices and professional fees when it comes to the use of medical technologies and expensive drugs or medical equipment.


FUTURE WITH MORE PEACE OF MIND


It is timely that the various control knobs in our healthcare financing system be adjusted continually — taxes to redistribute resources to the poor and elderly, savings to generate more resources for future ageing needs, and social insurance to provide greater risk-pooling to cover high-cost catastrophic illnesses.

This is needed to achieve the proper balance between supply and demand for healthcare, between the different levels of primary preventive, acute and long-term care, and between the public, private and people sectors.

By Dr Phua Kai Hong

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/wh ... are-system

A short intro. Our public healthcare financing system is based on the 3M system, however, up to 80% of the population has private health insurance/health benefits tied to their employers.
Medisave-a compulsory health savings account, that until less than a decade ago, could only be used for hospital(and some hospital outpatient) charges. Its still heavily restricted on what it could be used for.(If anyone here has read Tim Hartford undercover Economist and his paragraphs on Singapore health savings scheme...... he's wrong).
Medishield- an opt out castrophic health insurance scheme run by the government. It is possible to purchase additional health insurance linked to Medishield, riders as they're called. These are usually used to allow additional health coverage in private hospitals, or even provide income so as to meet daily living expenses. Premiums are usually drawn from Medisave.
Medifund- a state run fund that helps meet healthcare cost needs for the poor.

Linked to this is Eldershield, another health insurance which provides for disability income.


The experts gripe about our system is... well, its still based around the model 30 years ago, where healthcare episodes happen in hosipitals, was mostly acute and just doesn't factor in life expectancy and quality of life.




SINGAPORE: The government will improve healthcare financing to give all Singaporeans more peace of mind.

Medical insurance scheme MediShield will be revamped to become MediShield Life -- to offer universal coverage and better protection for large hospitalisation bills.

Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, in his National Day Rally Speech on Sunday, also introduced a new Pioneer Generation Package to make sure that Singapore's pioneer generation does not need to worry about healthcare costs in their old age.

Falling seriously ill and being saddled with large hospital bills are major worries for many Singaporeans, especially those who are not insured under MediShield. Those aged above 90 are also not covered by MediShield.

To allay these concerns and give better protection against large bills, MediShield will be revamped to become MediShield Life.

Prime Minister Lee said: "The MediShield Life will not stop at 90. So don't worry, it will cover old people. Secondly, MediShield Life will be universal. It will cover everybody, every Singaporean -- old ones , young ones, those newly born.


"Even those who are now outside the MediShield network, we will bring them back in. You may be elderly, you may have dropped out, you may have pre-existing illnesses, we will bring you back in -- it may cost you a bit more but it can be done. There will be no more opting out for MediShield."


This means patients can expect to pay less cash out-of-pocket. But with better benefits and coverage, the premiums for MediShield Life will be higher too. The government will, however, subsidise MediShield Life premiums for those who cannot afford them.


As MediShield Life is a major change, the Health Ministry will conduct a public consultation exercise to seek views before deciding on the details of the scheme.


Another group that needs special care is from the pioneer generation, who are now mostly retired and are in their late sixties, or older.


They will get help to pay for their MediShield Life premiums, under a new Pioneer Generation Package.


Mr Lee said: "We are going to spend more on healthcare, year by year. The goverment subsidies are going up and will go up some more. But some part of it has to be paid by ourselves and each of us must save enough to pay for our share.


"Therefore, I think you can guess what my next line will be -- Medisave rates have to go up. It has to be. We will increase these contribution rates over time, as and when our economic conditions permit.


"How? How much? We will have to discuss carefully, but the direction is quite clear. We need to save more and that will stand us in good stead because one day we will all grow old, if we are lucky."


Besides enhancing the current healthcare framework, Mr Lee said that the best way to keep healthcare costs down is to stay healthy. This is especially so for the elderly, for whom exercise is not just about keeping fit but also to make friends.

- CNA/al

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/sin ... 81478.html
To put it simply, our government has decided to make the state run health insurance mandatory for all Singapore residents. We will be undergoing a series of public consultation in the next few months, but there's a MAJOR problem.

First, the public. Their reaction ? There's a strong core of people against this. From the "its our money gang, stop telling us how we must use it and let us use it" to libertarians. And said public consultation?
What WILL happen is the typical shadow play(wayang), where the government has framed the topic so narrowly that it draw out extreme views from opponents, the public representatives crushed them and walked over to victory. That or in lieu of their subpar public performance in the last 8 years, lose face as they make stupid remarks/soundbites and they console themselves with the idea that uneducated peons simply don't understand anything.


And simply ignore the fundamental problem.

HOSPITAL CHARGES ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!

On one hand, I REALLY love this idea of making health insurance mandatory with government aid to help fund premiums. It some form of concrete shift towards the government actually creating a social safety net.


On the other, revamping Medishield by making it mandatory and increasing outpatient benefits/charges from Medisave is only part of the solution. The REAL bugbear, from the experts, and we KNOW that the Health Minister knows this because he harped about it before is that our healthcare financing system is based on an obsolete 30 year old model where Singaporeans were young, healthcare needs were episodic and relatively rare and in a scenario of acute disease. You get cancer? Ok, linger for 6 months and you're dead or alive.

That scenario is no longer true. And to make things worse, in order to work around the fact that we have the developed world lowest doctor to population ratio, the developed world lowest hospital bed to population ratio, we're talking increasingly about home care or 'right siting' care.

And it would be EXTREMELY radical if the government actually places those charges, the equipment, the supplies, the resources needed to right site care under Medishield. This even as the families most unable to afford the charges, are those LEAST able to actually take care of the sick. The most I forsee is the government allowing community hospitals and outpatient community services like dementia daycare, rehab, respite care to claim from Medishield. Nursing homes? Lol. Forget it.

The sad thing is, given the fundamental opposition to social welfare and Not My Problem crowd, they definitely won't endorse this..... And its already too late to invent another scheme.
My thoughts are a bit jumbled up as I been.... defending this scheme against a bunch of "oh no, the government are stealing our money! Stupid foreign trash are here to suck up our money!" on a local forum. And while there's no way I can make this mess comprehensible as a blog entry, I do want to get some form of commentary and discussion going. So......... here it is......



Of course, such a development towards MANDATORY government insurance means lots of American libertarians will need to eat crow:D
I don't get it. Just how did libertarians equate compulsory and mandatory health savings= libertarian?
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/breean ... -singapore
Imagine going to the doctor with the flu and paying $30 for the visit and $10 for the medicine with no further medical bill. Now imagine going to the doctor and finding out you have cancer. You have enough money in the bank to deal with such a medical emergency and whatever you can’t cover, the federal government will pick up. All citizens of the country in these scenarios have the same deal and the government only spends 4 percent of GDP on health care. Sound impossible? Welcome to Singapore.

Touting arguably the best health care system in the world and a per capita income higher than America, Singapore is the answer economists have no doubt been shouting at their televisions during every health care debate the last eight years. The Singapore health care system presents an ideal blend of left and right ideas on health care and still manages to be more free-market than U.S. health care has been since prior to the "New Deal." Due to the creation of Medicare in 1965, the federal government has been spending more each year on health care; which has brought us to a current rate of 17 percent of GDP on health care. As explained by senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and Forbes writer Avik Roy,


...if we measure the relative freedom of health-care systems by the dollar amount of government involvement in health spending, the French system is actually meaningfully freer than America’s.

Yet the French still spend thousands more per person on health care than Singapore. So how does Singapore do it? They call it the three Ms - Medishield, Medifund and Medisave. Medishield is optional catastrophic insurance run by the government. Should a consumer opt to use Medishield, the cost of services has a cap with the government covering the majority of the ultimate cost. Singaporeans can alternatively purchase private catastrophic insurance.

Medifund covers the bottom 10 percent of income earners and is funded by interest the government has accrued from their initial investment in the program. The program currently has $3 billion in interest. Eldershield is also available to cover long-term medical care for those with severe disabilities and the elderly. Between Medishield, Medifund and Eldershield, the left’s goal of universal health coverage is achieved with the added benefit of all being optional and very low cost to the government.

The glue that holds it all together can be found in Medisave, which translates to health savings accounts (HSAs) in America. 85 percent of Singaporeans participate in the program, which redirects 20 percent of their income into a Medisave account. For many Medisave pays for Medishield. However, Singaporeans maintain complete control of their Medisave accounts and can choose from whichever public and private insurance options best meet their needs. In giving citizens ultimate control over their health spending, as opposed to the government like in the U.S., Singapore has incorporated the free-market approach that those on the right know creates success. Roy likens Singapore’s health care system to the way Americans view other types of insurance:


We conservatives have long felt that the most market-oriented approach to health insurance is to think of health insurance the same way we think of all other insurance. Which is to say when we get car insurance, we don't use car insurance to pay for our wiper fluid, car wash or gasoline. We buy car insurance so that if we crash our car or it gets stolen, we can cover that heavy financial risk that we wouldn't otherwise have. And that's what health insurance should be too.

So if you get hit by a bus, you have a stroke, you have a heart attack, you're going to the hospital and you would otherwise have this huge hospital bill, catastrophic health insurance would pay for that. Say anything above $8,000, $10,000, all that would be covered by insurance. If you had a plan like that it would cost almost nothing, those kinds of plans are very cheap. It's when you have plans that cover everything under the sun, including your routine health expenditures, it drives up the cost of insurance.

It's like an open bar. Or when 8 people go out to dinner but you're splitting the check evenly, everyone orders lots of stuff thinking that, "Well I'm splitting the check anyway so what does it matter?" and then it ends up being a bigger bill. It's like that with health insurance; everyone consumes more because they're not price sensitive, because they're not paying for it directly, everyone's bill goes up. That's how our health insurance system works. So if actually you move to a system where there's true catastrophic insurance, where just like with the car insurance or your homeowners insurance, if you really do get some calamitous event happen to you, you're covered.

As for routine medical expenses, that is where HSAs (Medisave in Singapore) come in. Says Roy:


So what a health savings account does is it allows you to save for those expenses in a tax free way, the same way you would for a 401K. So it's tax free, you can invest it, it can grow over time, any unused money you put in there rolls over to the next year. So over time, if you stay healthy, you get rewarded. Because if you're healthy but you keep putting money away in your HSA, over time you have a lot more money. Where as if you're unhealthy then you spend it all, and so you have a much bigger incentive economically to stay healthy. Where as in our current system with a lot of health insurance that covers everything, you don't have a lot of incentive to stay healthy because if you are unhealthy it is all covered by insurance. If you are 400 pounds and you become a diabetic as a result of that, or you have chronic obstructive pulmonary disease because you smoke all the time, your insurance covers all of that; so you end up not having any economic cost. But if you have an actual economic incentive to stay healthy and not smoke, go to the gym every once in a while, that’s what HSAs help you do.

So that system is more attractive on a lot of different levels than what we do today. So conservatives for a long time have wanted to move the U.S. in that direction. And actually the Bush 2003 law that gave us the Medicare prescription drug benefit also legalized health savings accounts; before that you really couldn't do anything with HSAs. So now, actually, a lot of people have HSAs. Millions of Americans have them and it's growing steadily every year.

For the skeptics, the proof is in Singapore. Life expectancy at birth in Singapore is longer than in the U.S. and their infant mortality rate is less than half of America’s. Singaporeans are healthier than Americans because in part, they are in charge of their health care spending.

An additional benefit of a healthier population is a completely different experience when one does need to go to the doctor. With less patients, individuals can spend more time getting personalized attention. As one Singaporean put it, “I feel like I’m in a Norman Rockwell painting... only the doctor is Asian.” In fact, Singapore is a top destination for those around the world seeking quality care.

So what does America need to do to get affordable, quality healthcare? Well we know Obamacare isn’t the answer. The CBO is already projecting the cost to double in the first 10 years. While conservatives have been fighting hard to repeal Obamacare, talk of what should be done otherwise has been scarce.
Perhaps the bigger question is can both sides actually work on something bipartisan for the good of the country? The left wants universal health care and the right wants individuals to be in control of their own health care. The Singaporean health care system proves that both sides can win.

Roy maintains that spending is the most important aspect to him. “If we can cover everyone, but we’re spending a quarter of what we’re spending,” he considers that a victory. Whether or not Obamacare is repealed remains to be seen. However, in either case our health care system was already broken and it’s time to come to the table with actual solutions.

ROFL.
This even as our own libertarians debate whether healthcare should be socialized or commercialized.
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energiewende
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by energiewende »

PainRack wrote:Of course, such a development towards MANDATORY government insurance means lots of American libertarians will need to eat crow:D
I don't get it. Just how did libertarians equate compulsory and mandatory health savings= libertarian?
As opposed to what? The Singapore system's intervention is basically to 1. make sure that people on the welfare scheme are actually in need of assistance, because if they weren't their mandatory saving account wouldn't be empty and 2. protect dumb people from themselves, ie. never saving anything and then complaining when they're old and have no money to pay for their treatment. In most places those things are done and the government directly controls what is provided, how much money is taken, and often redistributes between people who aren't poor enough to claim means tested relief (or such relief just doesn't exist).

Anyway, Singapore has the world's most efficient healthcare system, so while the people who were clever enough to set that up are still in power, I hope you don't shoot yourselves in the foot. Elder care is very expensive and has very poor returns. A savings system with entitlement linked to personal earnings is absolutely the best way to limit the burden.
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by ray245 »

energiewende wrote: Anyway, Singapore has the world's most efficient healthcare system, so while the people who were clever enough to set that up are still in power, I hope you don't shoot yourselves in the foot. Elder care is very expensive and has very poor returns. A savings system with entitlement linked to personal earnings is absolutely the best way to limit the burden.
Wait...so are you essentially arguing that the poor should have less access to health care than the rich?
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by energiewende »

ray245 wrote:
energiewende wrote: Anyway, Singapore has the world's most efficient healthcare system, so while the people who were clever enough to set that up are still in power, I hope you don't shoot yourselves in the foot. Elder care is very expensive and has very poor returns. A savings system with entitlement linked to personal earnings is absolutely the best way to limit the burden.
Wait...so are you essentially arguing that the poor should have less access to health care than the rich?
Beyond a certain point, where healthcare becomes luxury/discretionary spending, yes.
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by K. A. Pital »

energiewende wrote:Beyond a certain point, where healthcare becomes luxury/discretionary spending, yes.
Why? Are the poor less human? Is their suffering worth less?
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by Siege »

That's an awfully suggestive and closed-ended way of framing it, but I'll echo the question of "what point is 'beyond a certain point'"?
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

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energiewende wrote: As opposed to what? The Singapore system's intervention is basically to 1. make sure that people on the welfare scheme are actually in need of assistance, because if they weren't their mandatory saving account wouldn't be empty
Nonsense. To qualify for Medifund, you have to be in the bottom 10% of income. That means your entire household earns less than 1500 dollars. So that's 3 people, surviving on less than 500 dollars a month.



The alternative method requires you to empty your finanicial assets, INCLUDING your children.(Fillial piety in action). What this means is that if you children are living in a good apartment(housing are routinely used for income estimates), you can't qualify for Medifund.
And even if you do, it means that you have sold your house and every other asset you own FIRST. So no car, no apartment and etc.


The picture is.... more complex than I paint it, especially since we're talking solely about Medifund as opposed to other forms of targeted aid from Comchest, CDC and etc......The idea is that Medifund is a last resort, while other targeted aid and subsidies step in to prevent you from using it.

Also, which intervention are you referring to in this scenario? Mandatory health insurance or?

2. protect dumb people from themselves, ie. never saving anything and then complaining when they're old and have no money to pay for their treatment. In most places those things are done and the government directly controls what is provided, how much money is taken, and often redistributes between people who aren't poor enough to claim means tested relief (or such relief just doesn't exist).
Pssstt. I'm going to let you in on a secret that Tim Hartford and every other Western economist who examined our system doesn't know about.

You have no freedom on how much you can draw from Medisave. The ONLY freedom you have, is choosing NOT to use it and paying out of pocket instead.

You can't use Medisave to see a family doctor for the flu.
Until the noughties, you can't use Medisave to see a doctor for diabetes or other chronic diseases. And even now, its a limit of 400 dollars, mostly limited to medications as you still pay for the doctor visit.

You CAN use Medisave to pay your hospital bills(once you pay the deductible and co-insurance), but only if you stay in hospital for more than one day and etc etc etc. Admitted to the ER for an accident? If you're not warded for > day, you can't use Medisave.(Same Day Admission surgery doesn't count for this rule)

You can only use Medisave to pay for authorized treatments and only certain outpatient meds. So hyperbaric treatment for wound healing? "gold plated", not authorized. (unless you simply tie it in as inpatient hospital care. Oooh, let me remind everyone again. Lowest hospital bed to population ratio in developed world. )

And let's not forget the utter inadequacy of the system. Eldershield pays only 400 dollars a month. That's not even fucking enough to pay for adult diapers. Meanwhile, you can't access your HSA to actually purchase the supplies and equipment you need for disability care. Oxygen tank? Out of pocket or hospice care and VWOs.
Anyway, Singapore has the world's most efficient healthcare system, so while the people who were clever enough to set that up are still in power, I hope you don't shoot yourselves in the foot. Elder care is very expensive and has very poor returns. A savings system with entitlement linked to personal earnings is absolutely the best way to limit the burden.
Elder care is expensive, ja?
But inpatient, ACUTE hospital care for elderly is even more expensive. That is why we drastically need to reform the system.


Let see what the Prime Minister actually said about this topic.
Besides housing, we will also give Singaporeans more assurance over life’s uncertainties, especially healthcare. Working adults feel the pressure taking care of growing children, also looking after elderly parents. People with chronic illnesses worry, worry about the cost of consultations, the cost of medicines, maybe a few cents a day but day after day, year after year. When you have high blood pressure, the doctor prescribes something to you. He says, please take this, please take this for the rest of your life and you have to take it seriously. Older people worry about the medical bills which they may face and worry about the burden which they may place on their children. So we will improve healthcare financing to give Singaporeans more peace of mind.
Oh. Singaporeans are not secure in facing their healthcare costs.
First of all, let me talk about outpatient care because that is a significant part of it and then let me say something about inpatient care which is actually a lesser problem but is a big worry to many Singaporeans. But first, outpatient care. One group which is concerned with outpatient care is those with chronic illnesses like Mr Tay Siew Mow, who is 59-years-old, has high blood pressure and regularly visits his GP for check-ups and medication. And as I said, high blood pressure, you have to take the pills for the rest of your life and the consultation and the pills price adds up. So how is he being helped? He is being helped through the CHAS scheme (Community Health Assist Scheme). He has a blue card. Every time he visits his doctor, he gets a subsidy up to $80, it helps pay for the consultation, helps pay for his medications. It is a big saving for him. He has a blue card, his wife has a blue card, his father, his sister, they all have their cards. But he has two teenage children, 15 and 17, and they do not have CHAS cards. Why? Because for CHAS, when we made the scheme, we set a lower limit, you have to be 40 years old before you can join the scheme to get it started. Now that the scheme is well launched, we have 300,000 people on CHAS, the system is working nicely, I think we remove this floor and younger Singaporeans will also be able to join the CHAS scheme, including Mr Tay’s two children. And I think that will diminish his worry about his family’s healthcare costs. So that is one aspect of outpatient treatment.
Oh hey! Note how this doesn't talk about Medisave and personal savings?

Its...... OMG...... government HEALTHCARE SPENDING. Granted, again, targeted healthcare spending, aimed at households with income of < 1500, this combined with Medisave management of Chronic Disease is intended to significantly reduce the out of pocket costs for the poor.

The third big thing on outpatient treatment, but this is something which will take us some time to do, is Medisave. There are people, many people have asked for Medisave to be used for outpatient treatments. Most recently, Dr Lam Pin Min chaired the committee, the GPC and put up a report. He asked, can we use Medisave for outpatient treatments. I think they are right, we should do this. In principle, this is sound, it is personal responsibility. I save and I use the money when I get sick. If I did not save when I get sick, I must scramble for the cash, it is a problem. We want to move in this direction, we have already taken some steps there. You can use it for chemotherapy, you can use it for major outpatient operations but you go there, you do the operation, you come home. But I think you can extend it further and especially for old people, we can extend it further. We will be studying carefully how to do this. So thank you Pin Min for your suggestion.

So that is outpatient treatment. The other aspect of this inpatient treatment. If we should fall seriously ill, can I afford the hospital bill if I have a very big hospital bill? In reality, there are very few such cases. I wanted to look for a good example for tonight. I scanned all of my
So, for 30 fucking years, we have NOT been able to use our HSA to spend money on outpatient care. Well, 20 if you remember that Chronic Disease management for diabetes/Hypertension/Hyperlidemia was started in 2006.

Now, they're 'thinking' about it.

But if so, why do we need a mandatory, government, health insurance program?
So that is outpatient treatment. The other aspect of this inpatient treatment. If we should fall seriously ill, can I afford the hospital bill if I have a very big hospital bill? In reality, there are very few such cases. I wanted to look for a good example for tonight. I scanned all of my MPS cases over the last one year. I had 140 medical cases which in itself is already not a very big number, but none of the 140 medical cases had huge hospital bills. So I asked MOH, please find me a good example. MOH scanned their database. They also found very, very few examples. So in fact, if you are on MediShield, which most people are, you do not need to worry. Can I have a show of hands who is not on MediShield down here? Nobody, so you are alright. You should be alright but I know that even though I can explain this to you and you can understand what I am saying, people still worry. And some people do not have MediShield cover and they could have a problem because MediShield, it reaches 92 per cent of people but some of the older folks may not have it, some of the people who have pre-existing conditions may have fallen out, may not have it. And also there is another third group, the very old people, because MediShield stops at the age of 90. And there are quite a number of Singaporeans who are now more than 90 years old, including Mr Yasmuddin Rasul whom I showed you a picture of just now, he is 92, and of course Mr Ho Tee Soon who is 104. So, what will we do?

I think we revamp, relaunch MediShield, we give it a new name. We call it MediShield Life. Why MediShield Life? Because it will cover you for life. If you do not stop at 90, the Medishield Life will not stop at 90. So do not worry, it will cover old people. Secondly, MediShield Life will be universal. It will cover everybody, every Singaporean, old ones, young ones, those newly-born. Even those who are now outside the MediShield network, we will bring them back in. You may be elderly, you may have dropped out, you may have pre-existing illnesses, we will bring you back in. It may cost you a bit more but it can be done. There will be no more opting out from MediShield. Thirdly, MediShield Life will give you better protection for very large hospital bills. The patients will pay less out-of-pocket or out of their Medisave. I think the burden on the children, on the families will be less. So, three key things on MediShield Life. One, it is for life; two, it is universal for everybody; three, it gives you better cover for very big hospital bills. But because it does more, because the benefits are better, therefore, the MediShield Life’s premiums will have to be higher. It has to be, because it has to break even and I think for most people that will not be a problem. But for a few that could be a problem and for those who cannot afford, the Government will subsidise this MediShield Life premiums for them.

Because thanks to our national health insurance programe, the number of actual medical bankruptcies in Singapore are rare. And most of the actual funding problems found are for those who can't use Medishield, to cover stuff like congenital diseases, pre-existing conditions or for people who are no longer covered.

(Speech extract taken from PM National Rally 2013, which announced the impending healthcare reform.)
http://www.pmo.gov.sg/content/pmosite/m ... hPS10qwo_5

Like I said. I support this move. We do need it badly.

What I'm afraid of is related to the other aspect of Singapore health care. Right-siting care. And given the conservative nature of our politics along with the nature of public feedback, something that might not be addressed.

For example, a good example is found here.

Disincentive for patients to see the family doctor – these are groups of patients like those with CSC cards, where subvention is obtained only if patient is seen in a hospital SOC.
http://www.cfps.org.sg/collegemirror/37 ... M37(2).pdf
So, families receiving government subsidies must be seen in approved government clinics with their long queue times, transport costs and etc.

Our health minister speech in parliament.
http://www.moh.gov.sg/content/moh_web/h ... t2of2.html
Need for Medisave liberalization to actually pay for outpatient care, including scans.

Without private insurance which does cover such scans, doctors admit patients inpatient just to do routine workup. I have seen patients whose only reason for admission was to do an MRI and blood tests. Why? Because they couldn't afford the 800 dollar costs for a PET CT or the several hundred dollar cost, out of pocket for an MRI. Hell, I had a patient once who was admitted for routine chemotherapy, something that's done normally as outpatient..... purely because while his private insurance would pay for inpatient chemo, it won't pay for outpatient. And the out of pocket costs, even though Medisave can be used to pay for chemotherapy was too prohibitive.

My concern right now is that given the conservative nature of public feedback in Singapore, the relative echo chamber of the well off, we won't get liberalized Medisave usuage and more general aid for outpatient charges, as well as liberalized use, either through Eldershield or Medisave of being able to purchase the equipment needed for quality home care.

Seriously. I SEEN patients who were doomed to suffer worsening asthma attacks because while the asthma med is subsidized(or free under CSC), the spacer inhaler is not. And they can't touch the sum of money they have in their HSA........

And unlike the developed world, our older generation, the one's who need this right now?

Let's take a look at household income in 1980 when Medisave was started. It was 880 dollars median.
http://app.mccy.gov.sg/portals/0/summar ... munity.pdf
They're not going to have much savings for when they're old and need it, considering the rate of medical inflation.

This even if we ignore that our system simply cannot accommodate the current hospital biased care, a relic of our obsolete 3M system. Again, lowest hospital bed to population ratio in developed world. Unless a drastic Medisave liberalization is allowed, we're not going to be able to right site people. Much less age in place, home care ideals now being preached.
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

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energiewende wrote: Beyond a certain point, where healthcare becomes luxury/discretionary spending, yes.
Elder care DOESN"T mean what you think it means......... At least, I hope not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elderly_care

It means caring for the elderly. And yes, while this includes expensive stuff such as nursing homes and the like, the only way NOT to spend on such care is literally euthanasia.

Others can be extremely cheap and affordable, yet, our system set ups barrier to utilize it. Which causes further costs down the road.

The most simple example I can think of is OT home assessment and renovation. 400 dollars a month SIMPLY doesn't cover the short term cost of renovating a home to become elder friendly. And without that, you force the household to surrender the elderly to insitutionalised care.

Even something as simple as respite care or daycare would prevent the 300-1800 charges our fully subsidized patients pay at nursing homes. Of course, the full rates range from 5k onwards. And I'm relatively sure there isn't a common insurance policy that pays for that in Singapore and unlike the States, we have no Medicare.

The answer? Liberalise the use of Medisave, money that was saved TO meet such healthcare costs. But we don't. Our tertiary care relies entirely on VWOs to step in if the patient family can't handle it themselves.
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by energiewende »

Siege wrote:That's an awfully suggestive and closed-ended way of framing it, but I'll echo the question of "what point is 'beyond a certain point'"?
What indeed - did you know in fact that no country, neither private nor UHC, will pay infinity dollars for hundreds of doctors to personally tend to you and eek out every additional possible minute of your life? In the most centralised UHC countries there is a specific dollar/life year (adjusted for disabilities - if your quality of life is measurably very poor then the years are worth less) beyond which they will not pay. So nothing I said is in any way radical, no matter what country you're from, only a restatement of the status quo, and it's a status quo that can never be changed because the amount of money that could be spent on healthcare is beyond our resources to pay for it, let alone our willingness.

So the question in a place like Singapore is, what is the tipping point beyond which healthcare becomes luxury/discretionary spending? The Western world including the US (for elder care, the US is a UHC country) has disincentivised saving for elderly care as a result of which practically no one has personal savings. So we are trapped in a setup where spending is determined by current voters electing governments that promise them current benefits paid for by other people, ie. people who are still working and who will not, when they come to retire, have a large enough healthy working age population to support them in such a manner. Singapore has a personal savings system so it can avoid that, if the norm remains that people pay for their own care out of their own savings. By all means top up the very bottom of the distribution to the minimum to no longer qualify for such relief, but that's it.

The choice that is being made - which is obscured in the West by intergenerational transfers - is how much money (ie. quality of life) you want to give up while you're young and healthy in order to fund a small number of additional years of unhealthy, probably profoundly disabled life when you are old and close to death. My sense is that this is not worth a huge amount of money; certainly not the difference between 4% (Singapore) and 10% (Germany) of GDP in spending. That's as much as the entire education budget; more in some countries. Of course when you can get someone else to pay for it, who cares? But that's a dysfunctional system that harm society as a whole, so my hope is Singapore will continue to resist it.
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

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Question is, is the quality of life for the elderly in the West so poor as you describe it? My personal experience speaks otherwise. Without crippling diseases many of the elderly continue to enjoy life, often in a way they could not while being mid-aged.
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

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energiewende wrote: What indeed - did you know in fact that no country, neither private nor UHC, will pay infinity dollars for hundreds of doctors to personally tend to you and eek out every additional possible minute of your life? In the most centralised UHC countries there is a specific dollar/life year (adjusted for disabilities - if your quality of life is measurably very poor then the years are worth less) beyond which they will not pay. So nothing I said is in any way radical, no matter what country you're from, only a restatement of the status quo, and it's a status quo that can never be changed because the amount of money that could be spent on healthcare is beyond our resources to pay for it, let alone our willingness.
So, in your opinion, what tools shall we use to measure this?
QALY?
DALY?

You're also coming close to comitting the fallacy of the excluded middle. Its certain that we stop aggressive treatment, curative and etc at some point in a life. The question is not continuation of treatment vs cessation of treatment. Its enabling people to choose treatment that best follow their ideals and desires.

So, you have no intent to continue curative treatment? Fine. Here's the thing. You still need healthcare to live life meaningfully. Even simple ADL such as toileting can become very costly rapidly.
How about a caregiver at home? Or importing a domestic care-giver to take care of the disabled?

Dementia care.....

These things AREN"T cheap, and the fact remains that a hospital based, acute disease funding model is inadequate to meet this challenge. Traditional sources of care has also dried up with the double income household and the shrinking of Asian families, this even as delayed childbirth and longer life expectancy create a sandwiched generation. To make things more complex in the Singapore context, we're actually seeing two sandwiched generation now, as the original sandwiched generation is begining to transit to become 'young old' and consume healthcare dollars, but with their savings hollowed out by intergenerational transfers and their self care abilities limited.

Singapore has long argued that 'targeted subsidy' and therapies is effective at meeting this population group. But an aging population and scarce resources challenge everything. The silver tsunami has long threatened to overwhelm the traditional healthcare system in Singapore(some argue it already has) and after a decade of trying, the government has finally decided to enact what MIGHT be radical reform of our healthcare financing to cope.


Even if we do remove everything specific to Singapore, the question in general for your stance is, how DO you measure it and how do you finance the need and treatment? Because cessation of curative treatment does NOT mean no treatment.
So the question in a place like Singapore is, what is the tipping point beyond which healthcare becomes luxury/discretionary spending? The Western world including the US (for elder care, the US is a UHC country) has disincentivised saving for elderly care as a result of which practically no one has personal savings. So we are trapped in a setup where spending is determined by current voters electing governments that promise them current benefits paid for by other people, ie. people who are still working and who will not, when they come to retire, have a large enough healthy working age population to support them in such a manner. Singapore has a personal savings system so it can avoid that, if the norm remains that people pay for their own care out of their own savings. By all means top up the very bottom of the distribution to the minimum to no longer qualify for such relief, but that's it.
How many times must I repeat myself?

No. We DO NOT have a personal saving system that avoids that. Medisave dollars are rationed by the government. The rationing is even more odious, because unlike insurance rationing or that practised by the NHS, the government is rationing compulsory savings designated for healthcare. In other words, its your money, but you can't use it unless the government says you can.

Its one of the perspective that's driving healthcare debate in Singapore, and its a viewpoint that is utterly invisible to Western observers, despite its constant proclaimation on the internet.
The choice that is being made - which is obscured in the West by intergenerational transfers - is how much money (ie. quality of life) you want to give up while you're young and healthy in order to fund a small number of additional years of unhealthy, probably profoundly disabled life when you are old and close to death. My sense is that this is not worth a huge amount of money; certainly not the difference between 4% (Singapore) and 10% (Germany) of GDP in spending. That's as much as the entire education budget; more in some countries. Of course when you can get someone else to pay for it, who cares? But that's a dysfunctional system that harm society as a whole, so my hope is Singapore will continue to resist it.
Except that this ISN"T the choice. As Stas Bush has pointed out, you're committing the fallacy of the excluded middle here.
You could very well be spending a large amount of money, to continue living healthy years. Elder care does NOT equate to aggressive treatment aimed at extension of life. You're doing elder care services a gross diservice in your protrayl.
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Meh. There has always been a strong dissonance between reality on the ground, and the Singapore govt's policies, but if you read in between the lines, the govt reveals its concern and reluctance to remedy the problem.

The Old Man likes talk about the elderly being employed even way beyond retirement. The guy writes his own damn check and has to cheek to say something like that, but the hidden message behind that is simply put is that CPF and whatever not isn't going to be enough for retirement in this day's inflation. Fast forward 20-30 years from now, things will get worse if people do not earn enough for retirement after having to service a 30 year housing loan.

The govt talks about filial piety and that children should support the parents etc. etc., when the bulk of the elderly population probably don't have enough cash to support themselves anyway. What it simply says is that the govt does not want to be burdened with the needs of the elderly and the population better do something about it, even though some are stretch between supporting their families and their kids. Newsflash for those in their 20s and 30s: Don't expect your kids to support you in your old age. They will be struggling with costs that will continue to rise and supporting you will just add to the already huge burden.

And the government talks about the low birth rate. What a joke. The bottomline is: The govt doesn't give a rat's ass. The only thing they care about is maintaining status quo. For example, the high housing prices serves the govt's purposes; it provides a steady revenue stream through property taxes, and through the sale of flats. Don't expect the govt to do too much. THey will only do just enough to keep themselves in power, nothing more. And you will be surprised by how much Singaporeans like their high prices of houses (excepting new couples from middle income families who have to take that damn loan). I could have sworn the govt used the scare tactic of "vote for opposition and your property prices will fall" at least once.

And they will do just enough to prevent the bubble from bursting and the prices of houses collapsing. Yeah I am cynical. But this is Asia we are talking about. "Asian Values" are at best a façade and beneath all that is a lot of rot.
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Yeah I am cynical. But this is Asia we are talking about. "Asian Values" are at best a façade and beneath all that is a lot of rot.
What the fuck does this has to do with "Asian values"?
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

ray245 wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Yeah I am cynical. But this is Asia we are talking about. "Asian Values" are at best a façade and beneath all that is a lot of rot.
What the fuck does this has to do with "Asian values"?
Didn't you read my mention of filial piety, or are you still trying very hard to be a dumbass as usual?
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: The Old Man likes talk about the elderly being employed even way beyond retirement. The guy writes his own damn check and has to cheek to say something like that, but the hidden message behind that is simply put is that CPF and whatever not isn't going to be enough for retirement in this day's inflation. Fast forward 20-30 years from now, things will get worse if people do not earn enough for retirement after having to service a 30 year housing loan.
What hidden message? It has been made clear that the key concern of the government is how for a good minority of the population, their only retirement income is from CPF, this while their CPF is inadequate to meet retirement needs. Or have you missed every single talk from Khaw, Gan, LKY and LHL for the last 10 years on CPF?
The govt talks about filial piety and that children should support the parents etc. etc., when the bulk of the elderly population probably don't have enough cash to support themselves anyway. What it simply says is that the govt does not want to be burdened with the needs of the elderly and the population better do something about it, even though some are stretch between supporting their families and their kids. Newsflash for those in their 20s and 30s: Don't expect your kids to support you in your old age. They will be struggling with costs that will continue to rise and supporting you will just add to the already huge burden.
You're a little outdated with your concept. What with aging in place and community care, the 'attempt' is to switch to home care with caregiver support. Its not as simple as kids supporting you in old age with money, the key question is as usual, what money and etc...

The whole healthcare reform being discussed here is fundamental about this topic. Just how much money should be coming from subsidy, juts how much should Eldershield benefits be increased and its role in home care and etc.
And the government talks about the low birth rate. What a joke. The bottomline ishe govt doesn't give a rat's ass. The only thing they care about is maintaining status quo. For example, the high housing prices serves the govt's purposes; it provides a steady revenue stream through property taxes, and through the sale of flats. Don't expect the govt to do too much. THey will only do just enough to keep themselves in power, nothing more. And you will be surprised by how much Singaporeans like their high prices of houses (excepting new couples from middle income families who have to take that damn loan). I could have sworn the govt used the scare tactic of "vote for opposition and your property prices will fall" at least once.

And they will do just enough to prevent the bubble from bursting and the prices of houses collapsing. Yeah I am cynical. But this is Asia we are talking about. "Asian Values" are at best a façade and beneath all that is a lot of rot.
There's cynical, and there's talking out your ass.

Just why is the low birth rate important to the government? They forsee a future where Singapore labour force has shrunk, its tax base diminished, even as government and household expenditure rises. If you have utterly ignored two decades worth of debate over this matter, please excuse yourself cause you're too ignorant to comment anything about this.
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

PainRack wrote:What hidden message? It has been made clear that the key concern of the government is how for a good minority of the population, their only retirement income is from CPF, this while their CPF is inadequate to meet retirement needs. Or have you missed every single talk from Khaw, Gan, LKY and LHL for the last 10 years on CPF?
The goverinment may make it a key concern, but so what? Has it done anything concrete beyond raising the interest rate by 2 or so percentage points? Does the government make a serious attempt at financial education too? Just a few months ago, some woman wrote to Khaw regarding her fears of not getting the money required for retirement through a downgrade in flat. The reason for the fear was the mere toying with the idea of having subsidized housing being sold back to the government rather than sold on the open market. What is most surprising is not so much the issue of having to sell the HDB flat back to the government, but more the fact that the woman was utterly clueless to the notion of risk. If she wants to indulge in this bit of buy and selling of commodities, she should know that such risks are part and parcel of any transaction but it's clear she does not!
You're a little outdated with your concept. What with aging in place and community care, the 'attempt' is to switch to home care with caregiver support. Its not as simple as kids supporting you in old age with money, the key question is as usual, what money and etc...

The whole healthcare reform being discussed here is fundamental about this topic. Just how much money should be coming from subsidy, juts how much should Eldershield benefits be increased and its role in home care and etc.
No. What needs to be done is the government does what has been something of an anathema to the high and holy bunch to create communities for the old folks that have their own in built care and support. The govt has toyed with these ideas from time to time but nothing concrete. These communities exist in the West but do not exist in Singapore, beyond a hospital bed system of sorts.

As for the funding, forget about government funding. If you can't afford these creature comforts, sucks to be you.
There's cynical, and there's talking out your ass.

Just why is the low birth rate important to the government? They forsee a future where Singapore labour force has shrunk, its tax base diminished, even as government and household expenditure rises. If you have utterly ignored two decades worth of debate over this matter, please excuse yourself cause you're too ignorant to comment anything about this.
No, what a lot of dimwits do not seem to get is that the technology level of the Singapore economy is pathetically low for a "First World" nation and thus the individual productivity of jobs isn't good enough. Essentially, the amount of revenue, and thus tax, each job generates is not good enough. The shrinkage of the labor force could be combated by having high value jobs, but these do not exist in quantity in Singapore, and I do not foresee them existing in the desired quantity in the near future due to poor leadership and poor planning.

And since you have essentially ZERO interaction with manufacturing companies etc. in Singapore, and even less understanding of the challenges of research in Singapore, you are even less qualified to even talk about this. And if you think the banks can make up for the productivity, you are dead wrong as well. The sophistication of the local banking industry is miles behind its Asian peers. Just a few years ago, I attended a JP Morgan seminar on the benefits of Quants and lo and behold, JP Morgan hires only 3-5 quants in Singapore, vs 15 in HK, 15 in Shanghai, 15-20 in Japan, and they are starting up a unit in Beijing with the aim for hitting 15 as well. Needless to say, in the UK and NY, they hire hundreds. And if you don't even know what a quant does, then you have even less comprehension of the local economy.
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: The goverinment may make it a key concern, but so what? Has it done anything concrete beyond raising the interest rate by 2 or so percentage points?
You mean liberalising CPF to allow for self investment in certain markets is not a concrete step...... and of course, the government bemoaning that performance in said markets << special rate is also not them being concerned.

Or limiting CPF withdrawals and rewriting the whole shebang into an insurance annunity and other insurance options is also nothing ......


Now, if the question was about effectiveness, that's another question altogether. The government in numerous speeches has address why despite the looming problems, they are too worried to effect drastic, radical changes.

Until this year.

Does the government make a serious attempt at financial education too? Just a few months ago, some woman wrote to Khaw regarding her fears of not getting the money required for retirement through a downgrade in flat. The reason for the fear was the mere toying with the idea of having subsidized housing being sold back to the government rather than sold on the open market. What is most surprising is not so much the issue of having to sell the HDB flat back to the government, but more the fact that the woman was utterly clueless to the notion of risk. If she wants to indulge in this bit of buy and selling of commodities, she should know that such risks are part and parcel of any transaction but it's clear she does not!
Just what is your point here and what is your supporting evidence supposed to prove?

I'm a bit nebulous as to your exact point, but to answer in general...
http://www.moneysense.gov.sg/

A government financial education website.

And of course, the legal changes to investment policies last year or two years ago, requiring that all new customers into a new investment fund and etc show that they are financially literate by answering a questionnaire regarding their financial education/experience.
No. What needs to be done is the government does what has been something of an anathema to the high and holy bunch to create communities for the old folks that have their own in built care and support. The govt has toyed with these ideas from time to time but nothing concrete. These communities exist in the West but do not exist in Singapore, beyond a hospital bed system of sorts.
AGAIN. Your concept is obsolete.

First of all, we now have the cluster/regional healthcare that has been pioneered in Changi East. They're the first to get it off the ground and Tan Tock Seng is almost there. What it means is that you now have tele-operators, a proven scientific method that help answer questions regarding care and etc. They have already started intergrating care coordinators that do follow up at home(the last reports are from last year). Meanwhile, Changi has tied in with St Luke to provide more effective community care and the like.

In other words. You're OUTDATED.

This while the housing board has stepped up finanicial incentives and redesigned housing estates to be more accessible to caregivers.

This while the HDB has completed the public consultation to make housing estates more elderly friendly, actually, a second phase of course, since the earlier phase was conducted by the LTA with their wheelchair accessible buses and stations, while HDB completed fully upgrading all estates with lifts on each lobby. (albeit, that phase was similarly tied in with the disabled as well).
As for the funding, forget about government funding. If you can't afford these creature comforts, sucks to be you.
The government HAS already allocated the funding. Dollar for dollar for the VWOs, increased funding for healthcare and community hospitals, increased funding for ammenities........ The question is NOT regarding the will for funding.

Its regarding the SCOPE and SCALE of funding. And that's solely because our timeframe for executing the required improvements is getting shorter and shorter, requiring more and more radical, drastic changes. Something I will be the first to bemoan that we have been laggard in, because of the conservative nature of the government and etc etc etc.

As they say, healthcare spending for the elderly is a net negative capital investment .

No, what a lot of dimwits do not seem to get is that the technology level of the Singapore economy is pathetically low for a "First World" nation and thus the individual productivity of jobs isn't good enough. Essentially, the amount of revenue, and thus tax, each job generates is not good enough. The shrinkage of the labor force could be combated by having high value jobs, but these do not exist in quantity in Singapore, and I do not foresee them existing in the desired quantity in the near future due to poor leadership and poor planning.
What DIMWITS such as you don't seem to get is that the service industries we're shifting towards are labour intensive, this while our 'talent' pool shrinks as we attempt to drastically expand our industries.

Seriously. The EDB has splashed money on every single project in the last few years, from the media industry(Lucasarts! Our own animation! Media and magazines!) to wealth management to the standard biopolis.

This while expanding our drastically undermanned healthcare force to meet the anticipated labour requirements of an increasingly elderly population.

WHILE also addressing the low productivity and relatively ineffective R&D/marketing potential of our economy.

THAT is why the reins on immigration has been so lax over the last few years. Standard economists say that when a country tries to expand its industry, it soak up the labour force and this reins in expansion due to rising costs. We sidestepped this by simply immigrating in a large foreign population while increasing the temporary worker force for low wages services and etc.....
And since you have essentially ZERO interaction with manufacturing companies etc. in Singapore, and even less understanding of the challenges of research in Singapore, you are even less qualified to even talk about this.
This coming from a person who has done nothing but talk bullshit about the CPF and healthcare and retirement planning?
Pot. Kettle. Black.
And if you don't even know what a quant does, then you have even less comprehension of the local economy.
Ooooh. Subtle insults.

Meanwhile, mind actually ponying up SUBSTANCE instead?

Oh. btw, stop shifting the fucking goalpost. You claimed the government doesn't give a rat ass about the low birth rate. You then ignored the reasons why the government has PUBLICLY stated that they're concerned about the low birth rate, by shifting to a new argument about the state and shape of Singapore economy.
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Zaune
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by Zaune »

energiewende wrote:
Siege wrote:That's an awfully suggestive and closed-ended way of framing it, but I'll echo the question of "what point is 'beyond a certain point'"?
What indeed - did you know in fact that no country, neither private nor UHC, will pay infinity dollars for hundreds of doctors to personally tend to you and eek out every additional possible minute of your life? In the most centralised UHC countries there is a specific dollar/life year (adjusted for disabilities - if your quality of life is measurably very poor then the years are worth less) beyond which they will not pay. So nothing I said is in any way radical, no matter what country you're from, only a restatement of the status quo, and it's a status quo that can never be changed because the amount of money that could be spent on healthcare is beyond our resources to pay for it, let alone our willingness.
Uh... I'm pretty sure nobody has anything remotely like a [$CURRENCY]/life-year ratio. The deciding factor is quality of life; someone suffering from major cognitive impairment through disability or Alzheimer's frequently receive Do Not Resuscitate orders in the UK, for example, because the brain damage that's almost inevitable from cardiac arrest on top of that would likely leave them in little better than a persistent vegetative state.

I would draw your attention, by contrast, to the case of Terry Schiavo. A woman who by any meaningful definition of the word was dead as dead can be, but whose parents were allowed to keep paying no doubt ridiculous amounts of money to retain her on complete life-support. I didn't really follow the story when it was in the news, but when I found myself reading the Wikipedia page while researching something else I just felt desperately sad and not a little angry, because I can only assume that no attending physician ever made her parents face up to the truth and give their poor daughter a decent burial rather than pay Weekend At Bernie's for two decades.
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PainRack
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Re: Singapore healthcare reform

Post by PainRack »

Zaune wrote: Uh... I'm pretty sure nobody has anything remotely like a [$CURRENCY]/life-year ratio. The deciding factor is quality of life; someone suffering from major cognitive impairment through disability or Alzheimer's frequently receive Do Not Resuscitate orders in the UK, for example, because the brain damage that's almost inevitable from cardiac arrest on top of that would likely leave them in little better than a persistent vegetative state.
The UK NICE panel uses QALY , Quality Adjusted Life Years to determine the effectiveness of various treatments and the justification of using it.

By integrating cost ratio, its how they justify not using certain chemotherapy regimes that say increased Disease Free State and etc, but don't increase lifespan. So, energiewende isn't totally inaccurate in that.
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