Gas Attack in Syria

[Broomstick]

Something about the Oval Office does that to people.

[Grumman]

Something about the Oval Office does that to people.

Power does not corrupt, it just makes the corrupt more brazen. There were already signs that Obama was a dick before the 2008 election, we just didn't notice until it was too late.

[Broomstick]

Actually, I was never under any illusion Obama was a paragon of virtue, but then, I am from the Chicago area.

[cosmicalstorm]

14 Principled Anti-War Celebrities We Fear May Have Been Kidnapped
http://www.buzzfeed.com/johnekdahl/14-p ... 1?s=mobile

[Simon_Jester]

Unconfirmed (I haven't seen the Power quote any other place), but if correct it shows just how out of touch with reality the current administration is.

The evidence cited in that article does not justify claiming that the "Obama team" actually believed Iran would disown Syria.

At most, it justifies claiming that the US ambassador to the UN* hoped Iran would reconsider their support for Syria in light of the Syrian government gassing civilians.

The paper reporting this, I would trust to report basic facts accurately, but I'm not sure I want to rely on them for internal dynamics of the Obama administration- they're too likely to assume incompetence when they should be looking for a hidden agenda, and too likely to assume insanity when they should be looking for the "warmongering corporatist dickhead" explanation.
_____________

*Who is allowed to have hopes and think thoughts not shared by the rest of the administration; the "Obama team" are not pod people)...

Something about the Oval Office does that to people.

Power does not corrupt, it just makes the corrupt more brazen. There were already signs that Obama was a dick before the 2008 election, we just didn't notice until it was too late.

I do recall thinking, during the primary campaign, that Obama was billing himself too much as the transformational person, the 'man on horseback.' That particular complex is often bad for good, rational government by the person suffering from it.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

It's strange to see Obama turning into a war-monger. He seems to literally spend all his waking time pushing for a war now.

Did Obama really sell himself as a peaceful candidate for president? I seem to recall him talking about expanding the military's role in Afghanistan during the presidential debates.

[TimothyC]

It's strange to see Obama turning into a war-monger. He seems to literally spend all his waking time pushing for a war now.

Did Obama really sell himself as a peaceful candidate for president? I seem to recall him talking about expanding the military's role in Afghanistan during the presidential debates.

He really didn't say a whole lot - it was mostly the "hope - and - change" crap that was everything to everyone. He was able to pull this off because he didn't have a record on anything except being somewhat charismatic on the stump. He won re-election on the back of a class warfare argument against Romney with a generally sympathetic media (You can't tell me that Candy Crowley's interjection in the second debate didn't help Barry).

As for what's next, well, it's getting interesting.

Russia Sends Warship With 'Special Cargo' To Syria
Agence France Presse Sep. 6, 2013, 8:26 AM

A Russian warship carrying "special cargo" will be dispatched toward Syria, a navy source said on Friday, as the Kremlin beefs up its presence in the region ahead of possible US strikes against the Damascus regime.

The large landing ship Nikolai Filchenkov will on Friday leave the Ukrainian port city of Sevastopol for the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiisk, from where it will head to Syria's coast, the Interfax news agency quoted a source from the Saint Petersburg-based central naval command as saying.

"The ship will make call in Novorossiisk, where it will take on board special cargo and set off for the designated area of its combat duty in the eastern Mediterranean," the source said.

The source did not specify the nature of the cargo.

Russia has kept a constant presence in the eastern Mediterranean during the Syrian crisis.

In recent days Russia has made steps to beef up its naval grouping in the region.

The Russian destroyer Smetlivy will soon join the group in the region as well as the destroyer Nastoichivy, Interfax has said.

The anti-submarine ship Admiral Panteleyev has already entered its zone of operation as the flagship of the current rotation of the Mediterranean grouping, a military source has told the news agency.

Already in place in the eastern Mediterranean are the frigate Neustrashimy, as well as the landing ships Alexander Shabalin, the Admiral Nevelsky and the Peresvet.

They are expected to be joined by the large landing ships Novocherkassk and Minsk and the missile cruiser Moskva. The reconnaissance ship Priazovye is also on its way to join the group.

The US already has a strong naval presence in the region and any US military action against Syria is widely expected to be launched from the sea.

Copyright (2013) AFP. All rights reserved.

I remind you all that "Special" is a code word for "Nuclear." This is Putin telling King Barry the Clueless to back the fuck down.

[The Romulan Republic]

Is Russia's government crazy enough to fight World War III over Syria? And if they are, is Obama crazy enough to go ahead anyway?

[TimothyC]

Is Russia's government crazy enough to fight World War III over Syria? And if they are, is Obama crazy enough to go ahead anyway?

President Obama has come off as a bit of a coward when confronted - on both domestic and foreign policy (note how he didn't push for any gay rights legislation when he had majorities in the house and senate as an example). I think the Russians are betting that he continues to be one. The problem is Obama's ego. Although if Congress says no and he orders a strike anyway, well I think then we'd get to see just how constitutional the War Powers Act really is (with the D's up for re-election leading the charge for impeachment).

[The Romulan Republic]

I think you're being one-sided. Putin probably has a big ego. That's the problem. They might not be planning to start World War III, but if neither of them backs down...

[TimothyC]

I think you're being one-sided. Putin probably has a big ego. That's the problem. They might not be planning to start World War III, but if neither of them backs down...

I don't deny the fact that Putin has a large ego. He's also not a coward, nor stuck in the mind set that Obama is about nukes being evil.

[Siege]

Wait, you genuinely think the Russians are gonna load nukes on a landing ship? I'm no military expert, but that sounds highly unlikely to me.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think you're being one-sided. Putin probably has a big ego. That's the problem. They might not be planning to start World War III, but if neither of them backs down...

I don't deny the fact that Putin has a large ego. He's also not a coward, nor stuck in the mind set that Obama is about nukes being evil.

It sounds like you think Putin's supposed openness to nuclear weapons is a good thing. What the fuck?

[TimothyC]

Wait, you genuinely think the Russians are gonna load nukes on a landing ship? I'm no military expert, but that sounds highly unlikely to me.

The Nikolay Filchenkov is a Project 1171 class ship, which would be closer to something like an American Newport class LST, rather than something like a Runnymede class LCU. Using it to transport nuclear weapons not deployed in missile tubes or racks isn't unreasonable, especially if they want to bring Russian civilians back out of Syria.

It sounds like you think Putin's supposed openness to nuclear weapons is a good thing. What the fuck?

I think Obama is a coward and is itching to do something because the Syrians didn't do what he wanted - and a strike like this is the geopolitical equivalent of throwing a hissy fit. I don't think a strike is a good idea so Putin getting Obama to back down is a good thing.

[The Romulan Republic]

What if Obama doesn't back down? What if Putin's actions lead to another Cold War or World War III? Preventing an attack on Syria isn't worth it.

You could also blame Obama for not backing down. But somebody has to back down, so if Obama won't, Putin has to.

[cosmicalstorm]

This Syria adventure is becoming more insane by the hour. If Russia actually deployed nuclear weapons to the region that makes me worried. This is the kind of situation that could escalate badly by accident. Looking around on different forums almost no of Obamas traditional supporters seems to back this. What the hell is he doing?

[Alyeska]

If Russia is actually deploying Nukes to the region, it will ultimately hurt them. You have to be careful about the cards you play. Playing the nuclear card in this particular scenario could let Russia win with Syria, but it will harm their standing with Western Europe. Which means it will harm their economy.

You think limited airstrikes by the US are bad. Threatening nuclear weapons is fucking insane.

[NettiWelho]

United States also has nukes in range, why is that not 'threatening with nukes'? (besides, both sides have global nuclear reach without any regional deployments anyway, right?)

Whats wrong with Russia taking the stance that an attack on their ally without UN-backing will result in same reaction as would an attack on Russia itself? United States does that one all the time aswell.

[The Romulan Republic]

Why is it wrong? Because defending Syria is not worth destroying civilization.

[Lolpah]

United States also has nukes in range, why is that not 'threatening with nukes'? (besides, both sides have global nuclear reach without any regional deployments anyway, right?)

Having nukes in range and sending a nuke into a combat zone are two very different things.

[The Romulan Republic]

In the event of a nuclear war with Russia, would anyone survive? And if the answer is yes, where in the world would people be most likely to survive?

Sorry for the morbid questions.

[Broomstick]

It's strange to see Obama turning into a war-monger. He seems to literally spend all his waking time pushing for a war now.

Did Obama really sell himself as a peaceful candidate for president? I seem to recall him talking about expanding the military's role in Afghanistan during the presidential debates.

It wasn't so much "peace" as let's extract ourselves from Iraq, do what we need to wind up in Afghanistan, and not start another war. Less aggressive and belligerent than Romney, but that's a very low bar.

[Wing Commander MAD]

In the event of a nuclear war with Russia, would anyone survive? And if the answer is yes, where in the world would people be most likely to survive?

Sorry for the morbid questions.

Plenty will survive in both the U.S. and Russia. Nuclear war, while devastating is not the human civilization ender that Hollywood would have you believe. Make no mistake, it's bad and something to be avoided at all costs and many will die, but it's not like we'd be covering every habitable square inch of the Earth's surface in a nuclear fireball. Where's Shep when you need him? He'd probably have detailed graphs and figures of expected casualties, infrastructure damage, etc. ...

[NettiWelho]

Why is it wrong? Because defending Syria is not worth destroying civilization.

You didn't anwser the question, why is it Russia that should stand down and let her ally be attacked? America is the unilaterally acting aggressor here.

[Purple]

Why is it wrong? Because defending Syria is not worth destroying civilization.

You didn't anwser the question, why is it Russia that should stand down and let her ally be attacked? America is the unilaterally acting aggressor here.

Quite. Standing down now would be very dangerous in the long term as well. Because it would set a precedent for the future that encourages the notion that the defender will stand down. Thus promoting future games of chicken.