God damn it, DC. (Batwoman writers and artist quit)

[Grumman]

DC apparently doesn't want me reading their comics, because they keep killing off the books I like. First it was the Secret Six, a victim of the New 52. Now it's Batwoman, where editorial interference has driven the writers to quit.

Dear Batwoman readers -

From the moment DC asked us to write Batwoman — a dream project for both of us — we were committed to the unofficial tagline “No Status Quo.” We felt that the series and characters should always be moving forward, to keep changing and evolving. In order to live up to our mantra and ensure that each arc took Batwoman in new directions, we carefully planned plotlines and story beats for at least the first five arcs well before we ever wrote a single issue. We’ve been executing on that plan ever since, making changes whenever we’ve come up with a better idea, but in general remaining consistent to our core vision.

Unfortunately, in recent months, DC has asked us to alter or completely discard many long-standing storylines in ways that we feel compromise the character and the series. We were told to ditch plans for Killer Croc’s origins; forced to drastically alter the original ending of our current arc, which would have defined Batwoman’s heroic future in bold new ways; and, most crushingly, prohibited from ever showing Kate and Maggie actually getting married. All of these editorial decisions came at the last minute, and always after a year or more of planning and plotting on our end.

We’ve always understood that, as much as we love the character, Batwoman ultimately belongs to DC. However, the eleventh-hour nature of these changes left us frustrated and angry — because they prevent us from telling the best stories we can. So, after a lot of soul-searching, we’ve decided to leave the book after Issue 26.

We’re both heartbroken over leaving, but we feel strongly that you all deserve stories that push the character and the series forward. We can’t reliably do our best work if our plans are scrapped at the last minute, so we’re stepping aside. We are committed to bringing our run to a satisfying conclusion and we think that Issue 26 will leave a lasting impression.

We are extremely thankful for the opportunity to work on Batwoman. It’s been one of the most challenging and rewarding projects of our careers. We’ll always be grateful to everyone who helped us realize 26 issues: Mike Siglain, who brought us onto the project originally; Greg Rucka for inspirationally setting the stage; our amazing artists Amy Reeder, Trevor McCarthy, Pere Perez, Rob Hunter, Walden Wong, Sandu Florea, Richard Friend, Francesco Francavilla, Guy Major, Dave Stewart, and Todd Klein; Larry Ganem, for listening in tough times; and editors Mike Marts, Harvey Richards, Rickey Purdin, and Darren Shan.

And most of all, a huge thank you to everyone who read the book. Hearing your voices, your reactions, your enthusiasm every month was such a joy, so humbling, so rewarding. You guys rock! Because so many of you embraced the series, we were able to complete four arcs, and your passion for Batwoman encouraged us to push ourselves to do our best work with each and every issue.

Thank you for loving Batwoman as much as we do.

Goodbye for now,

Haden & J H

Source

The only good news is that this is apparently not the result of DC hating gays. They just hate marriage.

[Imperial Overlord]

No, with ditching Rucka, almost firing Gail Simone, and the Catwoman and Starfire idiocy it appears DC just hates woman heroes.

[Majin Gojira]

Or just women in general if we put the marriage rate up along this as well.

And the way it was done just continues to announce the editorial problems DC has been having for quite some time now. From the sound of things, it's too many people trying to influence the stories. Management with its finger in the pot and too many cooks to make it work.

Someone has thankfully created a timeline of these events. so we can get a full idea of just how bad things have been.

[Vendetta]

I should point out that the website www.hasdcdonesomethingstupidtoday.com is actually a thing. This is how far we have come.

[Justice]

No, with ditching Rucka, almost firing Gail Simone, and the Catwoman and Starfire idiocy it appears DC just hates woman heroes.

Those were brief spots from stupid stories (And with Starfire, having read the book, wasn't actually true). Considering how many female-lead titles they have, it's not that they hate women, it's just that editorial is moronic. Didio is rather dictatorial in his editorial edicts and is more concerned with people following orders rather than telling stories. This whole ordeal isn't about female superheroes or gays, but just some weird aversion to marriage in general. It's almost like Quesada's problems with Spidey's marriage writ large. The only hero I can think of that is still married is Animal Man.

[Imperial Overlord]

No, with ditching Rucka, almost firing Gail Simone, and the Catwoman and Starfire idiocy it appears DC just hates woman heroes.

Those were brief spots from stupid stories (And with Starfire, having read the book, wasn't actually true). Considering how many female-lead titles they have, it's not that they hate women, it's just that editorial is moronic. Didio is rather dictatorial in his editorial edicts and is more concerned with people following orders rather than telling stories. This whole ordeal isn't about female superheroes or gays, but just some weird aversion to marriage in general. It's almost like Quesada's problems with Spidey's marriage writ large. The only hero I can think of that is still married is Animal Man.

Starfire prompted a huge backlash and she was absolutely drawn as a pin up with super powers. That was also Catwoman's intro and I didn't even mention Harley's striperific costume or rapey-slaver Amazons and everyone knows the list doesn't end there. It isn't just marriage and their incompetence isn't just with dealing with female characters, but it sure as hell is a big part of it.

[Justice]

Starfire prompted a huge backlash and she was absolutely drawn as a pin up with super powers.

She's always been a pin-up with superpowers. At least, in the comics. The whole problem was that was not the costume, but the stupid assumption that they had made her into some sex-bimbo who couldn't remember people from one moment to the next. Which, hey, turned out to be untrue (though that was obvious from the start).

That was also Catwoman's intro

That was stupid, but hardly worth the blowback it got.

and I didn't even mention Harley's striperific costume

Harley's costume is just a shitty costume. It happens in redesigns, and there are way more designs out there that show more conservativism more than anything (Power Girl, Supergirl, Poison Ivy, Black Canary, etc). Hell, it's no worse than anything Emma Frost wears on any given day.

or rapey-slaver Amazons

Eh, I'm understand the problems with Azzerello's take, but it doesn't bother me as much. It felt fine for the mythological tone the book had set.

and everyone knows the list doesn't end there. It isn't just marriage and their incompetence isn't just with dealing with female characters, but it sure as hell is a big part of it.

Except the vast majority of things they've done with female characters are fine (or hell, even good and great). World's Finest, Birds of Prey, and Batgirl are all great. Wonder Woman is a huge critical success. This news about Batwoman is bad, but the book is good and will likely continue given that Marc Andreyko is taking over. Books like Supergirl and Catwoman are largley forgettable but fine. Hell, we just had a great transgendered character in Demon Knights, a book which was actually had a large female cast (Half and Half). Kitana just got a nice book, and we did have Amethyst for a while.

Really, they are running too many good female books to be "incompetent". Outside of a few things at the start of the reboot, it's all editorial problems. Mandates, bullying, story changes and staff changes. Kate not getting married? Well, they eliminated Clark and Lois, Barry and Iris, and Arthur and Mera (Seriously, check the news ), and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few more beyond that. It's about DC not knowing how to handle marriage anymore.

[Imperial Overlord]

I simply disagree with you on the quality of most of the books and how satisfactorily the Starfire issue was handled. I'm not at all impressed with World's Finest and Birds of Prey and they straight out fired Simone from Batgirl. The lynch mob forced them to reverse the firing, but that book is decent despite what DC tries to do with it, not because of it. Their problems aren't limited to marriage annihilation or female characters, but it seems particularly acute in those areas. Really the worst sign is axing plot lines that have been in development for a year at the last second, something that has come up repeatedly in the statements of departing writers. That level of incompetence is simply boggling.

[Justice]

I simply disagree with you on the quality of most of the books and how satisfactorily the Starfire issue was handled. I'm not at all impressed with World's Finest and Birds of Prey and they straight out fired Simone from Batgirl. The lynch mob forced them to reverse the firing, but that book is decent despite what DC tries to do with it, not because of it. Their problems aren't limited to marriage annihilation or female characters, but it seems particularly acute in those areas. Really the worst sign is axing plot lines that have been in development for a year at the last second, something that has come up repeatedly in the statements of departing writers. That level of incompetence is simply boggling.

Really? I think most of the female-lead books are at least alright. The Starfire thing... I'm not a fan of Lobdell at all (Loved the start of his Superboy, but I was completely lost once the Titans came in), but it was pretty obvious that unreliable narrator was being unreliable. Starfire has deeper problems given her protrayal and costume that haven't much changed with the reboot, which is the thing that people really should have complained about.

And I'm not saying that they didn't try to fire Simone or anything. Rather, I'm saying that DC has some fine books when the writers are allowed to write. They have talent and when they let that talent go, it can really wow you (My best example is always Manapul/Bucellato's Flash run, which is easily the best example of what could have been done with the reboot). But Didio and Harras won't let it. This editorial problem is a completely blind, gender-neutral fuck-up of epic proportions, where just about every character is getting a taste of the bullshit. Marriage and female characters are less of a problem compared to editors completely fucking their writers. That's happened so many times it has gotten surreal.

In short, I think the books are there, and I think the writers are largely there. The problem is editorial has a bunch of arbitrary rules that they are springing on these writers to stop them from actually, well, writing.

Hell, if Andreyko were taking over without all this bullshit, I'd say it was one of the best moves they've made all year, and not in a backhanded way. He's a fantastic writer and I own a bunch of Manhunter trades because of him. But now I don't want to buy a book from an author I love with a character who is totally within his wheelhouse.

[Imperial Overlord]

The editorial staff does seem to be doing the majority of the damage, but part of the damage is firing/driving away talent. Since they're also mandating all kinds of dubious storyline/character material as well as last minute drastic changes, in many cases its hard to say if bad creative decisions are the direct results of hack writers or hack editors. What does seem clear is that DC is heading towards having more of both.

[Styphon]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

[Grumman]

DC editorial incompetence has driven off another writer. This time they managed it before the series even started:

I was supposed to write two ongoing series for DC Comics next year (with the possibility of a third), but when it became clear to me that I would not be a good fit with the current editorial team, I walked away before the series were announced. (Since I was paid a kill fee, professional decorum requires that I say no more, so please don’t ask).

I'm just gonna leave this here...

And if that's not your cup of tea, they also had her blow up hundreds of children on 9/11. This is where editorial should be doing something ("Hey, guys? If we want people to buy the new series about Harley Quinn, perhaps you should lay off on having her commit terrorist attacks on the anniversary of a major terrorist attack?"), and they didn't.

[Highlord Laan]

No, with ditching Rucka, almost firing Gail Simone, and the Catwoman and Starfire idiocy it appears DC just hates woman heroes.

It's a corporate entity run by committee and dominated by throwbacks to the 70's that live, eat and breathe nothing but what their focus groups tell them. Of course it hates capable heroines.

[JME2]

You know, it's stuff like this that is making me become increasingly tired of the superhero genre and DC in general.

[Steve]

I already reached that point. I no longer care for the medium at all. The characters, sure, but not the medium. For me the animated series' shall always be superior.

[JME2]

I already reached that point. I no longer care for the medium at all. The characters, sure, but not the medium. For me the animated series' shall always be superior.

Yeah, I've put a moratorium on buying comics until I reach a final decision -- or at least the superhero stuff. I'm giving serious thought to selling off my entire collection and calling it quits for good or just sticking with Vertigo projects like The Unwritten (Mike Carey + Peter Gross = awesome).

I love Batman, Green Lantern, etc. I love these characters and mythologies…but because they're corporate-owned, long-running characters, there's no end and no real change.

[Batman]

There's been plenty of change during the Modern Age-Barry dying for keeps (or so we thought), Hal turning villain for completely understandable completely human reasons (or so we thought), Barbara spending the rest of her life in a wheelchair (or so we thought)...
The problem as I see it isn't that there's no change, it's that The Powers That Currently Unfortunately Are are doing their level best to nix the changes the Modern Age brought, and to an extent have been since Infinite Crisis, not to mention the stupidity that is the New 52.

There's a reason I haven't bought a print DC comic in 10 years.

[JME2]

What frustrates me is that there can be no real ending.

These characters' adventures are ongoing, so the core elements must always remain intact. There's no real long-term character growth or development for the central character(s). And they're continually being redefined and retold for each generation.

This is one of the reasons why I love Nolan's trilogy. It distills the mythology down to its core elements, but it also gives it a defined beginning, middle, and end. It may very well be the definitive Batman story.

[Steve]

It's the nature of the beast. It's why I prefer animated series mostly, though I make exceptions for writer-specific arcs. Geoff Johns' mega-run on GL, Gail Simone's initial Birds of Prey run, etc.

[Batman]

There was plenty of character growth for Wally as he grew into his role as the new Flash, Kyle as he became the (at the time) last remaining Lantern, Conner was a completely different Superboy from Clark Junior etc. Granted the noninheritable jobs like mine or Clark's are pretty much hardwired but they used to make progress even there, like at least hinting that maybe I may pass on the mantle of the Bat (voluntarily or otherwise) with BB or Dick taking over while I was dead during Blackest Night, and I think they did some good work with making Clark evolve too). I can't see Silver Age Clark even contemplating to kill a hood out of sheer frustration over the number of innocents he couldn't save, possibly because he was busy stopping said hood. Modern Age Clark on occasion actually needed to be talked out of it.
Or how about me and Fugitive/Murderer? It's not like there's no wiggle room in our setups. Yes, the core elements must remain intact (and I generally approve of this, otherwise Clark would no longer be Clark and I would no longer be me), but there's plenty of ways you can use us while keeping those core elements.

[JME2]

It's the nature of the beast. It's why I prefer animated series mostly, though I make exceptions for writer-specific arcs. Geoff Johns' mega-run on GL, Gail Simone's initial Birds of Prey run, etc.

What I like about Johns is that if you leave him on a book long enough, his works feel like a complete story.

The end of his first Flash run and his GL myth-arc easily could have served as the ends of the mythologies. The finales in both instances were just so well done.

[The Cooler King]

See, I LIKE the fact that these characters are archetypal; as Steve wrote, it's the nature of the beast. Let the characters stay the same; we got to enjoy them, so why not let future generations have that fun, too? I much prefer Stan Lee's twin mantras: "Never give the fans what they THINK they want" and "Never change, always the ILLUSION of change". I think that I agree with Batman here; let the core elements stay the same. There's a reason these characters are known and loved.

JME2, I would disagree that Nolan's trilogy is the 'definitive' Batman story. There's too little Batman, and too much butchering of mythology for that (plus a VERY weak third film). Not to mention how ineffective Batman himself is from The Dark Knight on.

I freely admit, though, that I may be in the minority opinion here.

[JME2]

True.

The other thing is I'm tired of stories and events that require you to buy multiple books to understand the whole friggin plot.

That's one thing that annoys me about Johns' GL run: Not every issue has been collected and there are gaps in the story.

DC Universe #0, for example, bridges Black Hand's story from when Hal captured him early in the series to just before he kills himself.

[Thanas]

This is one of the reasons why I love Nolan's trilogy. It distills the mythology down to its core elements, but it also gives it a defined beginning, middle, and end. It may very well be the definitive Batman story.

Agreed. Also, having big budgets is something else than just rather shoddily drawn pictures (and no, not joking, most US comics are crap artwork wise compared to the french/european stuff). I was not a fan of the badly coloured and badly drawn batmen stories - even the killing joke sucks artwise - but the movies definitely looked nice and shiny.

[Steve]

Pah, European snobbery.