Presuming Vulcan is around Alpha Centauri (this is not so in the original series, but we've no evidence here) that would be around 1 ly/minute, and thus it would take around seventy days to cross the galaxy (if it can carry the fuel, which presumably it can as a five year mission is mentioned in the next film). But that is a lower limit. If we agree that it doesn't take long to reach maximum warp.
Assuming the changes to the timeline didn't rearrange the stars (I know, no old series evidence but the Klingon border example makes the same assumption) Vulcan is roughly 16 light years from Earth.
I'd actually argue for Kirk to have passed out and time to have gone by, because look at what had to happen on the reverse trip. Spock leaving for the rendevous, Kirk wandering the ice-world, getting chased by a monster, meeting Spock, meeting Scotty, the sequence in the engine room where Scotty was almost blended, usurping command from Spock and coming up with a plan. That's not a 3 minute span, though I suspect it took place within a day.
"Any plan which requires the direct intervention of any deity to work can be assumed to be a very poor one."- Newbiespud
That's not canon either, it's just something Roddenberry said one time. We really have no idea where it is.
Sadly, a crimp has appeared in my plans for more this week, as my desktop's power supply has died with the disc still in it.
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I stand corrected. Not that it matters, because the reboot is not the old show, and in the reboot planets are in massively different locations (Delta Vega springs to mind).
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
NecronLord wrote:I stand corrected. Not that it matters, because the reboot is not the old show, and in the reboot planets are in massively different locations (Delta Vega springs to mind).
I thought Abrams stated that Delta Vega in the new one wasn't meant to be the same place, but just similarly named to the old one.
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That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
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I'd like to point out that at roughly 45 seconds in the Nerada vs Kelvin 1 video, a gentleman pops up and questions in a particularly off hand manner, and I quote "Are our shields even up?!" Less than five seconds later it's stated that shields are at 11, 10 then 9 percent and dropping.
It would seem that the Neradas missiles may somehow have the ability to either pass through the Kelvins shields or simply brute force their way through.
If we could find a proper reference point and measure the size and effectiveness of the resulting explosions and the damage they cause, that may assist in discovering just how effective Nutrek shields really are.
gigabytelord wrote:
I'd like to point out that at roughly 45 seconds in the Nerada vs Kelvin 1 video, a gentleman pops up and questions in a particularly off hand manner, and I quote "Are our shields even up?!" Less than five seconds later it's stated that shields are at 11, 10 then 9 percent and dropping.
I just interpreted that as the Kelvin took such a pounding that for a moment somebody questioned if the shields were even working.
Switching gears, if you want to re-watch some of the Enterprise vs. Vengeance warp battle, found it on youtube (and gotta say, I really love Ben Burtt's sound design in these films - from the sound of McCoy's tricorder echoing the TOS version, to the terrifying hum of Vengeance's approach):
The travel to Earth is definitely brief, and allows for no sense of time potentially passing like the Enterprise's trip to Vulcan in the first film. Here Enterprise goes to warp, McCoy in sickbay comments "At least we're moving", with Khan's comments sending Carol dashing to the bridge and Vengeance catching up.
Enterprise takes a lot of damage here, and I'm not totally clear if shields are up (they may have been raised after the first salvo from Vengeance). One thing is definite, the Enterprise does not fall out of warp until a warp nacelle takes a direct hit.
Anyway, feel free to interpret away.
-A.L.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge
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"Sometimes you got to roll the hard six." - William Adama (Battlestar Galactica)
Um-the very first line in that clip is 'don't drop those shields, Mr Sulu' so I do rather think they were up.
And either Dr Marcus is a world class sprinter, sickbay is really close to the bridge, or there's a timeskip involved.
And why didn't she use the comm system?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Batman wrote:Um-the very first line in that clip is 'don't drop those shields, Mr Sulu' so I do rather think they were up.
True. But Enterprise does take quite a bit of hull damage, quite quickly when fired on at warp is the only reason I thought they could have been down.
Considering how convinced Kirk was they couldn't be caught up with, I figured the "don't drop those shields" was while they were near the Vengeance, and there was the risk of Khan being transported off the ship. But like you say, could have been up too.
And either Dr Marcus is a world class sprinter, sickbay is really close to the bridge, or there's a timeskip involved.
Yeah, but when? Did McCoy wait a few hours or a day to say "At least we're moving again"? Marcus running to the bridge wouldn't take that long.
And why didn't she use the comm system?
Abrams does love those shots of people dashing through corridors. Also, she was convinced she had to talk to her father to stop him from killing everyone.
-A.L.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge
"If you're falling off a cliff you may as well try to fly, you've got nothing to lose." - John Sheridan (Babylon 5)
"Sometimes you got to roll the hard six." - William Adama (Battlestar Galactica)
I was rather thinking along the lines of a few minutes as opposed to the 10 seconds it takes her to get to the bridge. Dr Marcus wanting to be there to dissuade Daddy from killing people made perfect sense. Her hightailing it for the bridge after using the intercom to inform Kirk about what she believed was about to happen would've made more sense.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Batman wrote:I was rather thinking along the lines of a few minutes as opposed to the 10 seconds it takes her to get to the bridge. Dr Marcus wanting to be there to dissuade Daddy from killing people made perfect sense. Her hightailing it for the bridge after using the intercom to inform Kirk about what she believed was about to happen would've made more sense.
I think we may be using this to discuss two different things (size of the Enterprise/location of things) versus travel from the Klingon Neutral Zone to Earth. Unlike the Vulcan scene in the prior film, where you can conjecture Kirk was unconscious for possibly hours, maybe a day, at most this sequence shows travel between Klingon space and Earth being covered in minutes. Any time jump in the scene doesn't allow for much more than that.
Besides, I can't think of any iteration of Star Trek where it took anyone a long time to get anywhere on their ship (except the infamous turbo-shaft scene in Star Trek 5).
-A.L.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge
"If you're falling off a cliff you may as well try to fly, you've got nothing to lose." - John Sheridan (Babylon 5)
"Sometimes you got to roll the hard six." - William Adama (Battlestar Galactica)
Sorry. I am talking exclusively about the extremely short time it takes Dr Marcus to reach the bridge (which is all of ten seconds) and their possibly being 1-3 minute timeskip in that sequence. No, that's not going to affect their travel time much, and no, jogging to the next turbolift, punching in a destination, and the lift getting there never took much time, but seriously, 10 seconds?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Batman wrote:Sorry. I am talking exclusively about the extremely short time it takes Dr Marcus to reach the bridge (which is all of ten seconds) and their possibly being 1-3 minute timeskip in that sequence. No, that's not going to affect their travel time much, and no, jogging to the next turbolift, punching in a destination, and the lift getting there never took much time, but seriously, 10 seconds?
See my comment above - there's a sceen in ST2009 where Spock and someone is having a conversation in a turbo lift. They're either in the transporter, engineering or ... wherever. They step in, mid sentence, the same sentence is still being spoken when they step out, on to the bridge.
NecronLord wrote:
Also, shorten your signature a couple of lines please.
First off, onto the notion of where I got the idea about the torpedos all being in tubes or launchers of some kind, I can definitely show where I got the notion they're in separate launchers from.
It's where he says 'all torpedoes are in their tubes.' But I must admit those tubes might be some kind of rotary mechanism as previously proposed. Here it is frame by frame, for those who're interested.
They do seem to be in some groups.
Here's the scene where we're shown the torpedo launchers being readied to fire.
I count five visible tubes in the above image, but I don't think five launchers per side is quite useful either, as the area shown is only a small part of the engineering hull...
Torpedo Two here is clearly behind the Impulse Engine here, as we know those bands on the hull are vertical.
And the fifth missile here is clearly forward of the point where the nacelles join the hull.
So we can see here that this part of the hull (in RED) is home to four starboard missile launchers, but the Vengance's scan shows, as indicated by the vertical line, that the torpedos continue on the engineering hull to a point below the 'main' torpedo launcher. As we can establish that there are four starboard torpedo launchers within the red square, and Khan's diagram shows they are spaced roughly equidistantly, I think it is likely that there are a further 8 forward of this on the starboard side (in the BLUE), or twenty four total, counting the portside.
We have an absolute lower limit of 5 launchers per side, and an probable figure of of 12.
This is not counting the interior set, which clearly doesn't scale up exactly with what we see here, as it would result in an enterprise of about four decks, if the four tubes in the red rectangle were one of the clusters of four shown in the internal shot. So there must be some loaders of some kind on display. Which means that we can't be talking about 72 launchers.
Additionally, they at least have some kind of air defense teams.
This air defence team shows up with a rocket launcher thingy, that sadly misses Khan.
Apologies for the picture quality but I think it shows the missile adequately well.
I have amended the OP with this information, naturally it's subject to comment or alteration if disproven, etc.
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In that first video you posted we clearly see torpedoes being beamed out of both tubes and the "weapons bay," leaving some other torpedoes behind.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
Um no we don't? We see one torpedo being beamed out of what very much looks like a launch tube and we see a bunch of torpedoes rematerializing somewhere on the Vengeance. That's it.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Huh, you're right. I'd swear that was torpedoes dissapearing rather than appearing. Oh well. Conceded.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
NecronLord wrote:I stand corrected. Not that it matters, because the reboot is not the old show, and in the reboot planets are in massively different locations (Delta Vega springs to mind).
No. It's not literally a reboot, it's a branching timeline in the same overall continuity. It's simply another universe which exists in parallel to the Prime, not unlike the Mirror Universe in that respect. "Not the old show" really means nothing since this franchise has always presented several shows and films assumed to be in the same continuity. Location names are not unique in the real world and there is no particular reason to assume that location names must be unique in the vast ST universe, including simplistic Greek derivations such as "Delta Vega".
Skylon wrote:Kirk and Spock are able to be transported from the Enterprise to the Narada effortlessly while one is in the vicinity of Saturn, and the other, Earth. This seemed to be presented as just normal transporter operations, and not using the whole "transwarp beaming" thing. And I don't remember anything like that happening in the prior series'. You had to be in planetary orbit or in close proximity to another ship.
That's why it's transwarp beaming at work. Also, we might note that Kirk and Spock didn't end up in the location they were supposed to, much like how Scotty ended up in the water tank when they transwarp beamed to the Enterprise.
NecronLord wrote:I stand corrected. Not that it matters, because the reboot is not the old show, and in the reboot planets are in massively different locations (Delta Vega springs to mind).
No. It's not literally a reboot, it's a branching timeline in the same overall continuity. It's simply another universe which exists in parallel to the Prime, not unlike the Mirror Universe in that respect. "Not the old show" really means nothing since this franchise has always presented several shows and films assumed to be in the same continuity. Location names are not unique in the real world and there is no particular reason to assume that location names must be unique in the vast ST universe, including simplistic Greek derivations such as "Delta Vega".
There are other places to argue this. My thread rules specify that I am treating it as a reboot.
Make your own thread if you want to talk old series. I am not interested in debating other Star Trek productions at this time.
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Skylon wrote:Kirk and Spock are able to be transported from the Enterprise to the Narada effortlessly while one is in the vicinity of Saturn, and the other, Earth. This seemed to be presented as just normal transporter operations, and not using the whole "transwarp beaming" thing. And I don't remember anything like that happening in the prior series'. You had to be in planetary orbit or in close proximity to another ship.
That's why it's transwarp beaming at work. Also, we might note that Kirk and Spock didn't end up in the location they were supposed to, much like how Scotty ended up in the water tank when they transwarp beamed to the Enterprise.
In fairness to that incident, Scotty was only guessing because he was unfamiliar with the Narada's design.
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This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
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The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
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NecronLord wrote:Make your own thread if you want to talk old series. I am not interested in debating other Star Trek productions at this time.
Nor am I. Clarifying that STXI/STXII is not literally a reboot ( at least in the eyes of the filmmakers, as opposed to a subset of the fanbase ) does not constitute "talking old series" or "debating other Star Trek productions". It's not a subject purely confined to either prior canon or the new films, because it's concerned with the relationship between those things. You're the one talking about a differently-located Delta Vega, for example, in order to insist on the concept of separate continuities. So you're speaking about the prior continuity as it relates to the current one as much as I am.
I consider it a reboot. Discussion in this thread is predicated on it being a reboot. Your posts are off topic. Make your own thread if you want to talk about this. I will not reply to you again on this topic here.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
NecronLord wrote:I consider it a reboot. Discussion in this thread is predicated on it being a reboot. Your posts are off topic. Make your own thread if you want to talk about this. I will not reply to you again on this topic here.
Frankly whether it's a reboot or alternate timeline doesn't really matter for the discussion.
The Vortex Empire: I think the real question is obviously how a supervolcano eruption wiping out vast swathes of the country would affect the 2016 election. Borgholio: The GOP would blame Obama and use the subsequent nuclear winter to debunk global warming.
