US government Shutdown

[LaCroix]

One question remains:
Should we keep this thread open for February or will we start a new one?

[Ahriman238]

I vote for new thread, this one has gone on long enough. Plus, I have this faint spark of hope that lessons will be learned from this, to the effect of "refusing to do your damn job, throwing a tantrum and taking hostages makes you look like the bad guy."

It really says something that even Bill freaking O'Reilly said this was a terrible plan.

Still, really glad we didn't get this comic literally, this time anyway.

[Crossroads Inc.]

If I recall, that cartoon was put out during the LAST debt ceiling debate.
It is as true now as it was then sadly.

With the vote over and crisis averted, now, NOW we may bask in the screech fest and total meltdown of the Die hard Tea Party supporters on the right. I read through a great deal of blogs and right wing sites this morning. but of all the comments I have seen, none of them encapsulate my own vies on the Tea Party as succulently as the following.

WOW AND WHAT DID REPOUBLICANS SOLVE,,,,ELIMINATING ANOTHER POTENTIAL REP CANDIDATE FOR POTUS,,,,CRUZ,, WAY TO GO!!!!
NOW ON TO ELIMINATING ANOTHER ONE RUBIO,, WHEN THE LIBS PUSH AMNESTY !!!!!

GOOD LUCK REPS YOU WILL NEVER WIN ANOTHER BATTLE IN THIS POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE AS LONG AS YOU L;ET LIBERALS AND MEDIA CONTROL ALL THE TALKIN POINTS,,, YOU HAVE NO B@LLS,,,,,,WHAT ARE THEY GOIN TO DO IN FEB,,START ALL THIS BS OVER AND SOME PROMINATE REP WILL BE STEPPIN UP TO MAKE THAT PUSH FOR POTUS AND THE RINOS WILL HELP ELIMINATE HIM TOO !!!!

I DONT SEE THE REP PARTY WINNING ANYTHING FOR AT LP;EAST THE NEXT 20 YEARS BECAUSE THEYRE SPINELESS PUSSIES,,,,,,YOU HAVE TO GROW A SET TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS POLITICAL ATTITUDE IN WASHINGTON AND REPS DONT HAVE IT,, WE CANT TRY AND PLAY NICE AND HAVE THE L;IBS AND MEDIA CALLIN US EVIL AT EVERY TURN,,, NOW IS THE TIME TO START SLAPPIN LIBS BACK UPSIDE THEIR HEADS BECAUSE WE ARENT GOIN TO WIN ANY MORE WITH THIS BUNCH IN THERE NOW !!!!

GOOD LUCK,

Surely! This is the voice of the true patriots of America!

[Borgholio]

When conservatives fail, get more conservative.

[CaptJodan]

When conservatives fail, get more conservative.

That's the irony about all of this. In large part, it seems like we were led down this path by ultra conservative members who, after losing time and again, felt they would take an even more conservative, and insane, path.

And the rhetoric is already spewing about Republicans who voted to reopen the government having their seats threatened for the next election by even more conservative members of the party. Doing the right thing is going to penalize some of these more moderate Republicans in the long run.

I'd love to believe that 3 months from now, the Republicans wouldn't try something like this again, because they got pasted badly over this. They got nothing out of it except the blame. It seems inconceivable that they'd try it again, for it only hurts them politically. But because there are these ultra conservative members who are waiting to steal seats (or want to keep their seats) from moderates, they may well keep doing this anyway, especially in the House.

[Borgholio]

It's worth asking how many conservative voters are saying "Yeah it sucks we had to give in, but better than being stupid and letting this country go into default."

I wonder how many moderates are going to lose their seats, compared to conservatives who almost lead us to ruin.

[Singular Intellect]

This shit is pretty ridiculous. The American people need to start living up to their warrior self image and start calling for Republican blood.

No. Let's stick with democracy and the rule of law.

I was talking in the context of voting, not actual violence. I supppose I should've been more clear on that.

[AniThyng]

This shit is pretty ridiculous. The American people need to start living up to their warrior self image and start calling for Republican blood.

No. Let's stick with democracy and the rule of law.

I was talking in the context of voting, not actual violence. I supppose I should've been more clear on that.

It's STILL comical how I see the exact same sentiment but with Democrat substituting for republican. Ths US is so polarized it's also incredible both wings think they are the correct majority.

[Alferd Packer]

It's worth asking how many conservative voters are saying "Yeah it sucks we had to give in, but better than being stupid and letting this country go into default."

I wonder how many moderates are going to lose their seats, compared to conservatives who almost lead us to ruin.

It is conceivable that the House could flip. The Senate has a lesser chance of flipping, but that's only because more democrats are up for re-election in 2014 than republicans and really isn't related to this issue.

But just remember, none of the Tea Party radicals in the House are going anywhere until 1) they die, 2) they resign, or 3) the Democrats take control of the House in 2020 and gerrymander the shit out of the safe Tea Party districts ahead of the 2022 elections. So those 144 people who voted to destroy the economy are here to stay. The house republicans who voted to re-open the government are definitely at risk from both the right and the left, but they are, almost to a person, in less Tea Party-friendly districts, so their elections could go either way.

Since the average voter has the attention span of a moth, they will have most likely forgotten all about this in a year's time, so I don't think too many moderate republicans are going to lose. But if this happens again in a year (it won't), you could witness the ouster of enough moderates that the democrats regain the House.

[Borgholio]

My conservative neighbor linked to a Facebook page for right-wingers. I guess I wanted to hate myself today so I visited the page.

Most of the people there were calling the moderate Republicans traitors and plotting to vote them out of office, criticizing them for not holding out longer, blaming Obama for shutting down the government, and even putting forth petitions to have him impeached and tried for war crimes.

If I didn't know that they really were serious, I would find the whole thing comical and pathetic.

I can't help but wonder if, rather than a backlash against the Tea Party, we'll be looking at raving lunatics banding together to vote the moderates out of office and get more Tea Partiers into the mix. That kinda concerns me.

[Covenant]

It's STILL comical how I see the exact same sentiment but with Democrat substituting for republican. Ths US is so polarized it's also incredible both wings think they are the correct majority.

In defense of the far left, our bastion of ideology shares are larger community outside of America where we can see the way those policies have worked in other nations. Republicans really have no successful models to base their policies off of, which is a great reason for why we can say with such authority that the world is against them.

Regardless, yes, both sides are hugely polarized. Part of this is that there are increasing social divides between Conservative and Liberal ideas and the two sides are self-sorting themselves into their own neighborhoods, television channels, clothing brands and universities. It's a studied phenomenon that may or may not have any impact on actual voting, but it does change the way people behave.

You might not mean to, you might just want to be near a whole foods or in an artsier neighborhood. But you choose factors that put you around people like you, who reinforce your views. People strain information anyway. You have to. If you believe everything you read you'll go nuts.

I can't help but wonder if, rather than a backlash against the Tea Party, we'll be looking at raving lunatics banding together to vote the moderates out of office and get more Tea Partiers into the mix. That kinda concerns me.

It's possible but these people are not a political majority. If anything we'll see people start fragmenting and the Republican party having a very hard time keeping all those members under one tent. The ultra-conservatives do exist as nearly a separate entity, but there's a ton of variation over there.

[Ahriman238]

According to one NBC-WSJ poll, 53 percent of Americans blame the GOP for the shutdown, 31% blame the president. The final estimates for the cost of this little adventure are upwards $24 billion.

[Rogue 9]

But just remember, none of the Tea Party radicals in the House are going anywhere until 1) they die, 2) they resign, or 3) the Democrats take control of the House in 2020 and gerrymander the shit out of the safe Tea Party districts ahead of the 2022 elections.

Actually they'd have to take control of state legislatures. The statehouse races are actually more important than the national Congressional ones in many ways for this reason, but most people don't realize that.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Question: If the tea party extremists largely push the establishment Republicans out of the party, will the GOP become irrelevant or will the political discourse end up shifting even more to the right?

[bilateralrope]

Question: If the tea party extremists largely push the establishment Republicans out of the party, will the GOP become irrelevant or will the political discourse end up shifting even more to the right?

Or will various campaign contributors decide that they are no longer worth the investment ?

[Rogue 9]

They'd have a hard time actually doing that; there's not enough of them. They can win primaries because primary turnout is generally low and they can motivate their supporters to turn up. Well, continued success in mounting primary challenges against candidates the (much larger) rest of the party actually supports will eventually motivate the rest of the party to turn up for the primaries. This isn't a long-term winning strategy they're running, here; if they actually manage to damage the Republican Party that much, the people who actually care about that will become motivated to stop them.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I vote for new thread, this one has gone on long enough. Plus, I have this faint spark of hope that lessons will be learned from this, to the effect of "refusing to do your damn job, throwing a tantrum and taking hostages makes you look like the bad guy."

It really says something that even Bill freaking O'Reilly said this was a terrible plan.

Still, really glad we didn't get this comic literally, this time anyway.

I get that behind the elephant is Uncle Sam, but who does the elephant represent?

[DireApostasy]

I get that behind the elephant is Uncle Sam, but who does the elephant represent?

The Republican Party. (They use an elephant as their symbol the same way the Democrats have a donkey)

[Eleas]

I get that behind the elephant is Uncle Sam, but who does the elephant represent?

For some reason, the GOP is often symbolized by the elephant, while the Democratic party is anthropomorphisized by the donkey.

[Broomstick]

Because we can't have government without weirdness...from CNN (and seen on other sources as well):

Stenographer snaps, rants on House floor

Washington (CNN) – Amid all the chaos of the last-minute deal in Washington, there was an unusual moment on the House floor moments after the bill passed.

A House stenographer and well-known employee calmly took to a microphone and began screaming.

"Do not be deceived. God shall not be mocked. A House divided cannot stand," she said, according to a House GOP aide. After a few seconds, she was escorted out by the Sergeant-at-Arms, but an audio recording by Todd Zwillich of Public Radio International captured the rest of her rant.

"He will not be mocked, He will not be mocked, (don't touch me) He will not be mocked. The greatest deception here, is that this is not one nation under God. It never was. Had it been... it would not have been... No. it would not have been... the Constitution would not have been written by Free Masons... and go against God. You cannot serve two masters. You cannot serve two masters. Praise be to God, Lord Jesus Christ."

House members and aides were surprised and unsettled by the scene.

"I don't know, she just snapped," said a GOP aide.

CNN's Dana Bash spoke with several staffers who knew the woman well.

"She’s a well-known person, she’s a perfectly nice person, a good colleague, somebody who’s respectable and dependable, and this is very surprising to everybody who works with her," Bash reported on air.

"The Sergeant in Arms didn’t try to stop her because she works there and that’s where she’s situated," Rep. Peter King, R-New York, told Jake Tapper. "And she actually went up behind the podium where the president speaks from. They thought she was going to hand something to the speaker, and then they realized."

Officer Shennell S. Antrobus of Capitol Police told CNN she wasn’t arrested or charged and was transported to a local area hospital by DC Fire for further evaluation.

In terms of an ongoing investigation or further action about the stenographer, Antrobus said no such action will be taken.

"There is nothing more, from our end, that we are going to do," Antrobus said.

Have to wonder if she was one of those "essential" Federal employees forced to work the past two weeks without pay while Clowgress conducted this circus, and if so, if having to watch this bullshit day after day might have been a factor in her meltdown.

[Dalton]

I get that behind the elephant is Uncle Sam, but who does the elephant represent?

For some reason, the GOP is often symbolized by the elephant, while the Democratic party is anthropomorphisized by the donkey.

Thomas Nast of Harper's Weekly standardized the Elephant/Donkey symbology for the political parties back in the 1870s, though the use of the jackass/donkey to denote Democrats dates back to Andrew Jackson.

[Napoleon the Clown]

She was on a mission from God.

Basically, the "Holy Spirit" compelled her to do it. Or so she says.

[Ahriman238]

If I recall, that cartoon was put out during the LAST debt ceiling debate.
It is as true now as it was then sadly.

It was, and it is.

I get that behind the elephant is Uncle Sam, but who does the elephant represent?

Republicans. The GOP. The two major political parties of the US are symbolized by a donkey and elephant respectively. The donkey was originally an insult aimed at Andrew Jackson, who decided to turn it around and make it a boast, a strong, stubborn and relatively intelligent animal. Later, in the 1870's a cartoonist (Tom Nast) showed a whole zoo's worth of animals cowering and fleeing before the Democrat Donkey, each tagged as a policy or group the Dems opposed, and the elephant was "the Republican vote." It stuck, also as a symbol of strength and stubbornness, but also supposedly of dignity.

The recent crisis just goes to show why both sides are represented by notoriously stubborn beasts.

[Rycon67]

She was on a mission from God.

Basically, the "Holy Spirit" compelled her to do it. Or so she says.

Working for 16 days without pay, in the heart of the lions den watching this stuff play out up front in person, I don't know if something like that would drive me off the edge, but I'd certainly be looking for another, saner job afterwards.

[AniThyng]

It's STILL comical how I see the exact same sentiment but with Democrat substituting for republican. Ths US is so polarized it's also incredible both wings think they are the correct majority.

In defense of the far left, our bastion of ideology shares are larger community outside of America where we can see the way those policies have worked in other nations. Republicans really have no successful models to base their policies off of, which is a great reason for why we can say with such authority that the world is against them.

You and I both know that in far right boards, the EU (and the UK's NHS) is a example of failure and the results of their policies are net negatives.

I'm sure you also know which particular far right board I mean - and I think its important not to dismiss it because unlike the ridiculous quote Crossroads regaled us with, most of the posts over there actually are not barely literate or uninformed.

There was a post over there where I think I could have left out the opening sentence and it would sound exactly like someone here targeting Republicans, only it was actually targeting Democrats.


Much like SI's post about when americans will find the balls to vote republicans out, word for word you could substitute it for when americans will find the balls to vote democrats out (oh wait, they did! That's why the House is Republican controlled in the first place!)

Nevermind the abolishing elections one! practically the same!

As a foreigner it is welcome relief from the horror show that is local politics.