FBI / Ashcroft's National Security Plans

[Queeb Salaron]

So we've all heard the stories about our emails being read by Federal agents to better equip ourselves against a terrorist attack. (It didn't work, by the way. We imprisoned thousands of email-senders, and not one of them had a viable link to terrorism. But that doesn't mean they've stopped doing it.)

About two months ago the FBI said they're going to start polling communities to find out where the greatest Arab / Muslim concentrations were. The Asst. Director of the FBI said that it was in no way associated with trying to root out terrorism. The Executive Asst. Director, however, said that the areas with the highest Arab population would be deemed "hot-spots" for terrorist activity and would be seriously investigated.

Is this an invasion of some kind of inalienable right? Does the FBI assume that large groups of Arabs are a powder keg, and if so, is this right? Do you think racial population density has anything to do with the location / frequency / magnitude of terrorist attacks?

[Sektor31]

All Arabs/Muslims are bad because someone rammed a plane into a tower? What the FUCK!?

Ashcroft not only is a legit lawbreaker, but he's also a freakin' racist.

When does his senate term expire? I'm wondering if he'll stay on the seat even when it expires too, because of "national crisis".

[Wicked Pilot]

Um, last time I checked, the WTC terrorist did not live in Arab/Muslim comunities, nor did they wear their Islam on their sleeves. Also, I could be wrong, seeing how it was a very long time ago, but I believe Timmy McVeigh was indeed not a Muslim, nor did he appear very Arabish.

[phongn]

Ashcroft is not on the Senate. He's Attorney General - selected by President Bush and confirmed by Congress when Bush took office.

Hopefully Bush will ditch him if he gets re-elected; if the Democrats win Ashcroft will be out, of course.

[phongn]

So we've all heard the stories about our emails being read by Federal agents to better equip ourselves against a terrorist attack. (It didn't work, by the way. We imprisoned thousands of email-senders, and not one of them had a viable link to terrorism. But that doesn't mean they've stopped doing it.)

About two months ago the FBI said they're going to start polling communities to find out where the greatest Arab / Muslim concentrations were. The Asst. Director of the FBI said that it was in no way associated with trying to root out terrorism. The Executive Asst. Director, however, said that the areas with the highest Arab population would be deemed "hot-spots" for terrorist activity and would be seriously investigated.

Just curious, but can I see some sources for this?

[Enlightenment]

The Executive Asst. Director, however, said that the areas with the highest Arab population would be deemed "hot-spots" for terrorist activity and would be seriously investigated.

Eh? The majority of particularly danerous al Qaida operatives are arabs. If one is to look for al Qaida operatives it makes far more sense to look in Arab areas rather than in, say, Brooklyn or a black ghetto.

[Sektor31]

Ashcroft is not on the Senate. He's Attorney General - selected by President Bush and confirmed by Congress when Bush took office.

Hopefully Bush will ditch him if he gets re-elected; if the Democrats win Ashcroft will be out, of course.

Attorney general, right, got a brain fart there.

Bush'll probably ditch him, otherwise he's gonna lose alot of votes if he fails to even mention that in his campaign.

[Sektor31]

The Executive Asst. Director, however, said that the areas with the highest Arab population would be deemed "hot-spots" for terrorist activity and would be seriously investigated.

Eh? The majority of particularly danerous al Qaida operatives are arabs. If one is to look for al Qaida operatives it makes far more sense to look in Arab areas rather than in, say, Brooklyn or a black ghetto.

What the man's saying is that he's going to start arresting Arabs for no reason, even if they are completely and infallably innocent. That's pure racism right there.

[Knife]

The Executive Asst. Director, however, said that the areas with the highest Arab population would be deemed "hot-spots" for terrorist activity and would be seriously investigated.

Eh? The majority of particularly danerous al Qaida operatives are arabs. If one is to look for al Qaida operatives it makes far more sense to look in Arab areas rather than in, say, Brooklyn or a black ghetto.

Oh, my GODS. I agree with you. It burns, it burns us.

While I am no fan of Ashcroft nor Fuller, you look for radical Islamism in Islamic comunities. Its about the same as patting down suspicious Arab looking men as opposed to suspicious little old ladies at the airport. Race should NEVER be the only factor, but lets get serious and start narrowing down the 300 odd million people in the US with some known factors, then go after the suspecious ones in that group.

[Knife]

What the man's saying is that he's going to start arresting Arabs for no reason, even if they are completely and infallably innocent. That's pure racism right there.

NO, what he is saying is that they are going to watch the more rabid Muslim groups/area's and known anti-US Clerics and/or activists. If they were conserned over another Tim McVeigh type bombing, I would want them to watch the hard core, right wing, nut balls, shacked up in a compound in Missiouri. Lets not be to PC or reactionary over it and consider who bombed the WTC and who drove planes into them. Using race to narrow the list of suspects is not bad, to use race as the only factor in your suspects is bad. This falls under the first, IMHO.

[Stormbringer]

What the man's saying is that he's going to start arresting Arabs for no reason, even if they are completely and infallably innocent. That's pure racism right there.

We're looking for Arab/Islamic terrorist. Shaking down Patty O'Brian or Jane Doe isn't going to do us any good. They're not going to herd muslims into concentrationn camps, they're going to be looking at radicals in the Arab/Muslim communities.

[Enlightenment]

What the man's saying is that he's going to start arresting Arabs for no reason, even if they are completely and infallably innocent. That's pure racism right there.

Got a source for that? The word 'arrest' does not appear in the original post.

[Superman]

Ah, Ashcroft. The retard that clothed the Lady Justice statue because it has a bare breast showing. What a stupid fundie moron. Isn't he a Bob Jones University grad?

What's next? Will he put shorts on M. angelo's David?

[Sektor31]

Maybe I should clarify. What I meant was that given his actions of unreasonable arrests in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if he started mass-arresting Arabs and Muslims.

[Stormbringer]

Maybe I should clarify. What I meant was that given his actions of unreasonable arrests in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if he started mass-arresting Arabs and Muslims.

Come on, even Ashcroft isn't going to do that. It'd be politcal suicide for the Bush Administration if nothing else. There's no way that would happen now.

[Alyrium Denryle]

You may be suprised stormy. If my second hour german class is an indicator(we do discuss wold events,inuding terrorism) over half my class supports such actions, and a few even support mass genocide. About half of th people I talk to in school would hav no problm with mass arrests. Though, I live in a coservative area, of a coservative state. the only liberals I know are a few of my teachers, 5 german students, Russell, and the german exchange students

[Stormbringer]

You may be suprised stormy. If my second hour german class is an indicator(we do discuss wold events,inuding terrorism) over half my class supports such actions, and a few even support mass genocide. About half of th people I talk to in school would hav no problm with mass arrests. Though, I live in a coservative area, of a coservative state. the only liberals I know are a few of my teachers, 5 german students, Russell, and the german exchange students

I didn't say there aren't people who'd support it. There are a lot that would and it sounds like a lot of those people are just blow hards though. But in general there isn't the support for it. I can only be thankful for that because it could happen under other circumstances.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I agree, it could have been mush worse. Had it been mlin atheists(dont ask how,chalk it up to scizophrenia) can yu say witch hunt?

[Stormbringer]

I agree, it could have been mush worse. Had it been mlin atheists(dont ask how,chalk it up to scizophrenia) can yu say witch hunt?

It wouldn't have happened for the same reason that no mass round up of Muslims happened. The people that would (and they are by and large the same people that would round up Muslims) are a distinct minority. The opposition to anything like that would be overwhelming enough to prevent it easly.

The religious might not agree with atheist Alyrium, but they're hardly waiting torches in hand for atheists to slip up. You tend to overreact to things like that.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I do occasionally over-react yes. but public opinion of atheists is already low. Can you imagine what could happen if the 9/11 attcks or somethig smilar had been commited by atheists? It may not be a literal witch hunt, but I would probably have found my house being egged, windows broken etc. It certainly wouldt have bee safe at my school. Hell on 9/11 there where incidences of people being murdered beause they where of middle eastern decent.

The religious right blamed us for 9/11. Some people listened. How many would listen in this hypothetical situation?

There may not be mass arrests, but hate crimes would be off the charts.

[Alyrium Denryle]

But again it is purley hypotheical from someone who is addmittedly a bit paranoid

[Stormbringer]

I do occasionally over-reatyes. but public opinion of atheists is already low. Can you imagine what could happen if the 9/11 attcks or somethig smilar had been commited by atheists? It may not be a literal witch hunt, but I would probably have found my house being egged, windows broken etc. It certainly wouldt have bee safe at my school. Hell on 9/11 there where incidences of people being murdered beause they where of middle eastern decent.

The religious right blamed us for 9/11. Some people litened. How many would listen in this hypothetical situation?

Probably about as many as listened to the idiots decrying all Muslims. They are the same people that would buy the crap about atheists. I don't doubt there would be the same sort of random violence that occured after September 11th but not some massive purge.

You're over reacting. Frankly I can understand why you're more cynical but you're overreacting here, badly.

[Alyrium Denryle]

i all likelyhood yes,I am ove-reacting. But is is a hypothetcal sitution. One that simpy isnt realistic, and I am a bit paranoid.

A governmental purge would have been political suicide. But then again, bush isnt noted for his intellect we would at least be watched like hawks, American Atheists would probaby be branded as a terrorist goup, and the march on washington would have beet met with violence

[Stormbringer]

i all likelyhood yes,I am ove-reacting. But is is a hypothetcal sitution. One that simpy isnt realistic, and I am a bit paranoid.

This is frankly paranoia on the order of the people that hole up in bunkers in Montana. The fact is, you're scenario wouldn't happen in any world resembling our current one.

A governmental purge would have been political suicide. But then again, bush isnt noted for his intellect we would at least be watched like hawks, American Atheists would probaby be branded as a terrorist goup, and the march on washington would have beet met with violence

There's no doubt atheists would have watched had a savy group of miltant atheists killed thousands and were given support by a millions of like mined atheists. That would be prejudice, that would be common sense.

Bush might not be the sharpest tool in the shed but he's got plenty of people that are damn smart. An atheist round up would never happen for the same reason that no Muslim round has occured.

[Alyrium Denryle]

conceeded