Are there any American super cars?

[Napoleon the Clown]

'68 Stingray. I've seen one that was fully restored and in pristine condition in person and good lord are they pretty. UNF. Also, the fifties run of Corvettes were nice, too.

I'll agree with the idea that they aren't necessarily works of art like they once were, but I don't really have anything against the styling now.

It just looks generic and unimaginative right now. Unlike say, the Vipers, who always kept their design element to keep them apart.

Not gonna argue against that.

Bugatti wouldn't be able to keep afloat if it were entirely its own thing because it went so far into the red to make the Veyron. Unless they've managed to drive down production costs enormously since 2005 they haven't made a dime of profit off the Veyron. They exist to develop technology for Volkswagen. And hey, if they succeed at that, good on them.

So eight years and they haven't managed to make up for the amount of money they dumped into the project? If they had to keep afloat on their own they'd have another car out by now that could easily turn a profit. Volkswagen is paying for their production costs, so I honestly don't give a shit. But they are far from their own, independent company.

They have their own design and engineering teams. That is what matters. Lamborghini is also owned by VW and they still do their own thing even while sharing technologies.

I'm not 100% on it, but I think the engineering team for Corvettes is different than for the redneck mobiles. I mean trucks. I could be wrong about that. Either way, I find the idea of dismissing an individual model because the company that produces it makes vehicles that are ostensibly work vehicles in far larger numbers to be a bit absurd and somewhat arrogant.

Snipping the rest since we seem to be in agreement on it.


Late on mentioning it, but I'd like to note I was aware of Vector prior them being mentioned in this thread. I think Gran Turismo 2 is where I learned of their existence. They aren't really a major force, though. I don't know much about them, to be honest.

[Crake]

What does, or does not constitute a "supercar" is subjective, of course. But, for me, a combination of aesthetics, performance, and exclusivity are the key components. And a certain "holy fuck! that car is amazing" factor. A Corvette is a damn fine car, and I would have to be hellaciously wealthy to consider purchasing a Lambo or Bugatti over it, as I'm really big into "bang for the buck". In terms of performance, it's gonna give you 90+% of whatever the "average" supercar is gonna deliver. The price to performance ratio is off the charts. But, it just doesn't possess that intangible WOW factor. Maybe it's because I live in the midwest USA and Corvettes are all over the goddamn place, but a Corvette is simply not going to turn heads. You pull up to a stoplight in a Lambo or Ferrari and you've taken things to another level. Does that mean that a Corvette is inferior? Nope. Is it a supercar in the way that I think most people think of supercars, also, nope.

[Mr. Coffee]

Actually, let's get away what is or what is not a supercar and talk a bit more about the corvette. Is there anybody else here who absolutely hates designs past C3? I like the rear view of the C4 but the front and the rest of the newer designs are just ugly to me. I miss the old Stingray. That one looked absolutely beautiful.

I gotta agree with you on the old C3 Stingray style. It looks curvy and fun, like you're not driving a car so much as a really hot chick that if you aren't caerful might literally fuck your brains out.

Corvette jumped the shark with the C4's. To angular. The abrupt change from sleek and curvy to angular and androgenous really throws me off. I can sum up the the C4's with a hearty "Fuck the 1980s".

The C5s they started to bring back the curves a little, but it just looks a little off. To bulgy in the wrong places. It's kind of like a junior varsity high school athlete that hasn't quite filled in and constantly tries to posture by flexing their biceps.

I like th C6 body. They finally got the proportions right. Where the C5 was bulgy and ungainly, the C6 is the C5 all grown up.

The new C7 body though. It gives me wood. They finally made something that really looks like a Corvette should again.

[Vendetta]

1960s, man. Four back-to-back wins by a Ford GT40 Mk.I from 1966 to 1969. Also, since fucking when is a racecar the same thing as a street legal supercar?

Fuck, bro, I thought you knew your racing....

Designed and built by a British company, Lola Racing. Would have been Lotus but the whole point of the GT40 was to get a Ford badged racing car winning races, and Lotus wanted it to be Lotus badged.


For this reason, and that the Shelby Cobra is also a British (AC Motors) car with an American engine, the C3 Corvette is the sexiest car ever made by actual Americans.

The only thing Bugatti currently has out is a single model of car, the Veyron. Which, last I heard, was sold at a net loss (source and another and "After the release of the car, it has been reported that while each Veyron is being sold for £840,000, the production costs of the car are approximately £5 million per vehicle." source for that) due to extremely high engineering costs and the material costs themselves are expensive as hell. Bugatti wouldn't be able to keep afloat if it were entirely its own thing because it went so far into the red to make the Veyron. Unless they've managed to drive down production costs enormously since 2005 they haven't made a dime of profit off the Veyron. They exist to develop technology for Volkswagen. And hey, if they succeed at that, good on them.

There is another reason for the Veyron, it's what's known as a "halo car". Everyone who they care about knows about the link between brands, and they go out of their way to reinforce it by making their more profitable performance cars, especially the Audi R8/R10 look discernibly similar to it.

The point of the Veyron was never to make money, or to have track performance, it was to be the company that built the fastest road car, a fact which confers status onto your other brands, especially other performance brands like Audi.

[The Kernel]

Coffee all this discussion of the Corvette as the best bang-for-your-buck street legal racecar but no mention of the Nissan GT-R? 540+ horsepower, sub 3-second 0-60 and a price tag of around $100k make it a reasonable affordable package that can still beat the snot out of almost anything else out there that is still street legal.

It also has the benefit of being one of the few supercars that is all-wheel drive which gives it a lot of extra grip and although there is sadly no manual transmission available the Nissan DCT is fantastic.

[Kitsune]

How about the various Vectors?
Loved them as a kid

[Mr. Coffee]

Coffee all this discussion of the Corvette as the best bang-for-your-buck street legal racecar but no mention of the Nissan GT-R? 540+ horsepower, sub 3-second 0-60 and a price tag of around $100k make it a reasonable affordable package that can still beat the snot out of almost anything else out there that is still street legal.

We were talking about American supercars, and the GT-R is, well, Japanese. Cool car though, and it turns out aftermarket tuning does some scary shit with those cars...



Yes, that's a GT-R that's doing over 1000 ponies at the wheel, and it's out running a GSXR-1300 like the damn thing was glued to the road.

It also has the benefit of being one of the few supercars that is all-wheel drive which gives it a lot of extra grip and although there is sadly no manual transmission available the Nissan DCT is fantastic.

Yeah, something like that without a six-speed manual is just goddamn criminal. Looks like it'd be a fun ride anyway.

[Mr. Coffee]

I got a great idea. Would a mod please sticky this thread and rename it "The SDN Car Nerd Thread"? That way if something cool like a new world fastest pops up or just feel like bullshitting about cars and such we got a place for it.

[aerius]

Personally, if I'm filthy rich I want a Ferrari 599 GTO. Just for the engine sound, I had one go tearing by me on the highway once and that engine just screamed. There is no other sound like it. The Z06 Corvette sounds fucking awesome but a race bred Ferrari V12 takes it to the next level. The video does it no justice. It is that good.

[Mr. Coffee]

Yeah, Ferrari builds 'em purdy, Bubba. Even better, thanks to a racing pedigree that's one of the few thing known to modern physics to actually be longer than my dick, Ferraris won't embarrass you if you go to the track with one. Sure, the middle-age insurabce salesman having his mid-life crisis in certain Vette might smoke ya, or the obnoxious German guy blasting obscure Berlin techno out of his Porsche might fly past you at speeds normally associated with aircraft, but you'll look like a stone pimp in the Ferrari.

[Thanas]

About that corvette....better not look at it sideways or it might disintegrate

[Venator]

Forgive me if I've missed the mention of it, but the new C7 'vette also has a vastly improved interior. It's really up to European standards, if that's part of your metric of what makes a supercar a supercar. Of course, there's not C7 ZR1 [yet].

I'm also disappointed to not see any mention of Hennessey, in particular the Venom GT: http://www.venomgt.com/
World-record acceleration times, contender for the fastest road car title. Admittedly not so glamorous to have a Lotus front-end, but the GT2 version is intended to fix that (http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/ ... 0133_m.jpg).

[The Kernel]

Thanas I wouldn't be too proud of the supposed build quality of European cars because there is an American car that makes fools of them all including the Italians, Germans, Japanese and even other American cars. Yes I'm referring to the Tesla Model S (performance config) which has to be the biggest sleeper car this side of an RS6. The damn thing is around the size of a BMW 7-series (it can seat seven with the optional jump seats) but it feels lighter than a Subaru WRX thanks to the weight being so bottom loaded.

However the interior is what really sets this car apart...Tesla really made the whole car industry look like fools with the quality of construction. Amazing tech, top shelf construction materials and each car is custom built to spec. I actually ordered my wife one as an Xmas present and although I haven't taken delivery yet I can say definitively that it's the best car I've ever driven. Even my 2014 BMW 335i doesn't come close and it is an amazing piece of machinery as well.

[Thanas]

Thanas I wouldn't be too proud of the supposed build quality of European cars because there is an American car that makes fools of them all including the Italians, Germans, Japanese and even other American cars. Yes I'm referring to the Tesla Model S (performance config) which has to be the biggest sleeper car this side of an RS6.

You mean the car that is supposed to compete with the 5 series yet costs double the price? Yeah, I would expect it to have a better interior.

[The Kernel]

Thanas I wouldn't be too proud of the supposed build quality of European cars because there is an American car that makes fools of them all including the Italians, Germans, Japanese and even other American cars. Yes I'm referring to the Tesla Model S (performance config) which has to be the biggest sleeper car this side of an RS6.

You mean the car that is supposed to compete with the 5 series yet costs double the price? Yeah, I would expect it to have a better interior.

Where on Earth do you get the idea it competes with a 5-series? The two aren't remotely comparable.

Anyway in the US the Tesla Model S fully equipped is about the same price as a 5-series well equipped. Granted we get $10k off the sticker because it's electric but it's a real world savings.

[Thanas]

Hmmm. Over here it is the price of an S-class. Still rather have that one.

[The Kernel]

Hmmm. Over here it is the price of an S-class. Still rather have that one.

They actually compared the two briefly on Top Gear US (S550 vs Model S) and it came off faster and generally more impressive . Granted an entertainment show but if you are in the market for such a thing you need to try the Model S.

Did I also mention that the cost per mile is around $0.06 total cost of ownership?

[Thanas]

Nah, I won't be buying any new car soon. My 14-year old BMW 5er is still good enough for my purposes and still hits 200 km/h on the Autobahn. You can't travel any faster anyway, so as long as it does not break down I won't buy a new one.

[Kitsune]

Nah, I won't be buying any new car soon. My 14-year old BMW 5er is still good enough for my purposes and still hits 200 km/h on the Autobahn. You can't travel any faster anyway, so as long as it does not break down I won't buy a new one.

My 12 year old Mustang with a six cylinder is in a pretty similar situation. Brought her only to about 135 kph and it was not the car that had the trouble but the driver. She acted just like she might at 100 kph but just things were moving too fast for me.
Don't know why I ever need beyond 144 kw engine.

[PKRudeBoy]

Would the Hennessey Venom GT count as an American supercar? American company and engine, but based on a British design and assembled in the UK.

[Thanas]

No, it won't.