Laughable "response" videos to this website on YouTube

[darth_timon]

I just can't watch more than about five minutes of each video. It's painful!

[Ted C]

Seriously, if you're going to cite psionic powers for the Federation, go with "Plato's Stepchildren" or "Tin Man". McCoy actually understood where the telekinesis came from and reproduced it in Kirk and Spock, and Betazoids are Federation members who could theoretically be assigned to starships to provide telepathic intel.

[Boeing 757]

The same person (Idazmi7) claimed that the Enterprise vaporized the surface of a world in one shot in "A Matter of Time" when in actuality the Enterprise only modified the atmosphere of a planet. He was called out on that, and admitted that he belied the events of that episode.

[darth_timon]

What's especially bad is that he won't allow comments- he's quite content to dish it out but can't take it.

[darth_timon]

I would consider a video response but I can readily imagine it would lead to a shitstorm.

[Darth Yan]

On one hand I'd be curious to see how much he'd go apeshit. Might well be worth it.

[Vance]

The Enterprise can destroy the surface of a planet multiple times over and (re: comments) can even withstand a blast from the Death Star superlaser.... but before you scream "Wanker!", thats only if the deflectors are at full!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhII2FCm ... 6cwEIS8r9g[/youtube]

[Boeing 757]

The Enterprise can destroy the surface of a planet multiple times over and (re: comments) can even withstand a blast from the Death Star superlaser.... but before you scream "Wanker!", thats only if the deflectors are at full!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhII2FCm ... 6cwEIS8r9g[/youtube]

I love how he claims towards the end that "Apollo's" temple absorbed enough energy to kill an entire planet's population.

As for Elba II, the only living things on the planet's surface consisted of Kirk, Spock and the prison staff. That hardly requires teraton yield weapons to kill them all. It's a detail which he glosses over and which makes a difference. As for General Order 24, it's nowhere near the level of savageness that a Base Delta Zero operation entails. It just wipes out all inhabited areas of population, which depending upon the population of that world in question (~100 million), shouldn't demand too much firepower to guarantee.

[WATCH-MAN]

[...] As for Elba II, the only living things on the planet's surface consisted of Kirk, Spock and the prison staff. That hardly requires teraton yield weapons to kill them all. It's a detail which he glosses over and which makes a difference. [...]

What exactly happened on Elba II?

[Vance]

The Enterprise can destroy the surface of a planet multiple times over and (re: comments) can even withstand a blast from the Death Star superlaser.... but before you scream "Wanker!", thats only if the deflectors are at full!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhII2FCm ... 6cwEIS8r9g[/youtube]

I love how he claims towards the end that "Apollo's" temple absorbed enough energy to kill an entire planet's population.

Oh, and that's on the conservative side. Consider just a fraction of a single shot getting through the shield can obviously wipe out a planetary surface "multiple times over". So without pulling any punches, Idazmi actually means to say "the temple absorbed more energy than is needed to destroy the upper planetary crust" .

And from there we get "the Enterprise could with stand the Death Stars superlaser at full power" lol.

On a more serious note, they state they've targeted all the cities or w.e in order to destroy all the "inhabited surface", but why target all the cities if a single shots gonna destroy the planets surface

[Ted C]

[...] As for Elba II, the only living things on the planet's surface consisted of Kirk, Spock and the prison staff. That hardly requires teraton yield weapons to kill them all. It's a detail which he glosses over and which makes a difference. [...]

What exactly happened on Elba II?

Elba II had an insane asylum/prison where some very dangerous criminals were kept. The planet (of indeterminate size) was fully enclosed by a shield to prevent outside accomplices from helping the criminals escape using transporters. There was a "prison break" that left the inmates in control of the asylum, with Kirk and Spock trapped with them.

At one point, Scotty attempted to break through the shield using the Enterprise's phasers, but the shield resisted their effort.

[WATCH-MAN]

Okaaay ... as you describe it ... this seems to be evidence that there is a planetary shield. But without knowing, how strong the phasers of the Enterprise are, you can't deduce how strong the shield is. Insofar the fact that Enterprise's phasers couldn't break through the shield says neither something about the strongness of the phasers nor something about the strongness of the shield.

But what has this to do with Kirk, Spock and the prison staff being the only living things on the planet's surface?

Did I miss something?

[bilateralrope]

I thought the prisons shield only covered the prison, not the entire planet.

But what has this to do with Kirk, Spock and the prison staff being the only living things on the planet's surface?

The planet wasn't earthlike. It was an inhospitable world with no native life of its own and no imported life beyond that within the prison. I don't think the atmosphere was breathable.

[Batman]

That'd be the fact that if Scotty had been told to execute General Order 24, destroying 'any and all life on the entire planet' would have been pretty trivial (well without that pesky shield in the way of course) what with there being one not exactly world-spanning manned installation on the planet. To my knowledge he never did get that order, though, it just pops up with this episode because Garth of Izar was one of the very few people who actually ever ordered a GO24.

[Ted C]

I thought the prisons shield only covered the prison, not the entire planet.

The Enterprise actually orbited the planet to attack the shield on the far side from the prison, where the shield would be weakest.

But what has this to do with Kirk, Spock and the prison staff being the only living things on the planet's surface?

The planet wasn't earthlike. It was an inhospitable world with no native life of its own and no imported life beyond that within the prison. I don't think the atmosphere was breathable.

The atmosphere was definitely toxic.

There's a lot of open questions, of course. Scotty was concerned that using the phasers might damage the asylum, so they may have been limiting their attack as a result (I think they fired three bursts, we've seen more prolonged phaser attacks). We don't know the size of the planet, so we don't know how much volume the shield had to enclose.

All we do know is that there's at least one planet under Federation control with a planetary shield that can withstand orbital phaser bombardment from a Constitution-class starship for a short time.

[WATCH-MAN]

Okaaay ... now my confusion is complete.

Let's see, what we have:

1. a planet with a toxic atmosphere
2. on this planet is an asylum
3. in this asylum are only Kirk, Spock and the prison staff
4. there is a planetary shield around the planet
5. the shield would be the weakest on the opposite side of the planet
6. they attack the shield on the opposite side of the planet
7. and Scotty was concerned that this attack might damage the asylum

Maybe I'm missing something.

But to me that seems impressive.

Let's ignore the fact that there is a shield for a moment.

But if someone attacked Earth - e.g. in Australia - and is concerned that a building on the other side of Earth - e.g. in Europe - might get damaged by this attack, it seems to imply that the weapons used in this attack are so strong that they can affect the surface of a whole planet.

The image of a shockwave going around the whole planet comes to my mind.

• • • • 

And now add the shield, which was able to withstand this attack.

Am I missing something?

[Ted C]

Okaaay ... now my confusion is complete.

Let's see, what we have:

1. a planet with a toxic atmosphere
2. on this planet is an asylum
3. in this asylum are only Kirk, Spock and the prison staff
4. there is a planetary shield around the planet

That part should be simple enough.

[*]the shield would be the weakest on the opposite side of the planet

Presumably the shield is generated from the asylum itself. The opposite side of the planet is weakest because it is farthest from the source.

[*]they attack the shield on the opposite side of the planet
[*]and Scotty was concerned that this attack might damage the asylum[/list]

I'm guessing that there is some concern that a heavy attack on the shield will somehow feed back into the shield generator, possibly causing an explosion.

[WATCH-MAN]

Presumably the shield is generated from the asylum itself. The opposite side of the planet is weakest because it is farthest from the source.

As I have understood what you all have said.

I'm guessing that there is some concern that a heavy attack on the shield will somehow feed back into the shield generator, possibly causing an explosion.

Is there any evidence for this possibility?

I mean, the same concern would be there if they attack the shield at its strongest point.

The same concern would be there at any attack on a shielded target.

And yet I can't remember that they haven't attacked a ship because an attack on a shield will somehow feed back into the shield generator, possibly causing an explosion.

I haven't even heard that an attack can somehow feed back into the shield generator, possibly causing an explosion.

I have seen the so called bleed through and I have heard that attacked shields are getting weaker and weaker.

But I can't remember to have ever heard that a shield generator can explode because the generated shield is under attack.

[Ted C]

Selected script tidbits...

SCOTT: I gave him the sign. Why didn't he give me the countersign?
MCCOY: Something's wrong.
SCOTT: Using the chess problem was the Captain's own suggestion. He couldn't have forgotten it, and I can't believe he was testing me. Lieutenant, re establish communication.
UHURA: Aye, sir. There's no response, Mister Scott.
SCOTT: Send an armed detail to the transporter room immediately.
UHURA: Aye, aye, sir.
SCOTT: Mister Sulu, what do your sensors show?
SULU: We can't beam anybody down, sir. The force field on the planet is in full operation, and all forms of transport into the asylum dome are blocked off.
SCOTT: We could blast our way through the field, but only at the risk of destroying the Captain, Mister Spock and any other living thing on Elba Two.
MCCOY: How can we be powerful enough to wipe out a planet and still be so helpless?

SCOTT: No breakthrough?
UHURA: No, Mister Scott. Still no response from the planet.
SCOTT: Sensor readings?
SULU: The force field is weakest on the far side of the planet. We can send down a shuttlecraft carrying a team in environmental suits.
MCCOY: It won't work, Scotty. They'd have to cover thousands of miles through poisonous atmosphere before they'd ever reach the asylum.
SCOTT: Aye, you're right. Even if they made it, they couldn't carry anything powerful enough to break through the asylum dome. Only the ship herself could do that.
MCCOY: Probably kill Jim and Spock.
SCOTT: Doctor, they may already be dead.

MCCOY: Got to break through it somehow.
SCOTT: Doctor, I told you we couldn't do it without killing everyone in the asylum dome.
MCCOY: I know it, Scotty.
SCOTT: Well, there's one last thing we might try. Perhaps the ship's phasers can cut through a section of the force field at its weakest point. Where did you say that was located, Mister Sulu?
SULU: On the far side of the planet, Mister Scott.
MCCOY: Will it leave a margin of safety for the people below?
SULU: Yes, sir.
SCOTT: Prepare to change orbital path, Mister Sulu.
SULU: Orbital co-ordinates released, sir.
SCOTT: Break synchronous orbit. Come to course one four mark six eight.
(after a few moments)
SULU: Course one four mark six eight. Synchronous orbit re-established, sir.
SCOTT: Ship's phasers to narrow beam.
SULU: Ship's phasers ready, sir.
SCOTT: Let's punch a hole in it. Full power. Another blast, full power.
SULU: Force field still holding, sir.

That's all we've got.

[bilateralrope]

Mccoy is the one talking about wiping out the planet. It could be him exaggerating, or he could just have limited knowledge about the effects of starship weapons.

SCOTT: Well, there's one last thing we might try. Perhaps the ship's phasers can cut through a section of the force field at its weakest point. Where did you say that was located, Mister Sulu?
SULU: On the far side of the planet, Mister Scott.
MCCOY: Will it leave a margin of safety for the people below?
SULU: Yes, sir.

It's only Mccoy questioning how dangerous it will be for the people on the planet. Sulu was able to answer immediately, which suggests the answer was obvious to him.

[Batman]

I find this to be somewhat curious-
]quote]SULU: The force field is weakest on the far side of the planet. We can send down a shuttlecraft carrying a team in environmental suits.
MCCOY: It won't work, Scotty. They'd have to cover thousands of miles through poisonous atmosphere before they'd ever reach the asylum.[/quote]
which sounds like McCoy expects them to have to hike it there on foot. Is the shuttle going to spontaneously combust once they're on the ground or something? Yes, they still can't get through the damn dome, but the distance or the poisonous atmosphere should be a nonproblem.

[bilateralrope]

It could be that the shuttle doesn't have the fuel capacity to travel around the planet while staying under the shield. Or it could be that the prison has some weapons that could shoot down any ships that tried that method of removing prisoners.

Thousands of miles sounds far too small for an earth sized planet. Which leaves three possibilities:
- The planet is smaller than earth. How small can a planet be while still retaining an atmosphere ?
- Mccoy was accounting for how far a shuttle could travel.
- Mccoy underestimated the distance.

[WATCH-MAN]

Mccoy is the one talking about wiping out the planet. It could be him exaggerating, or he could just have limited knowledge about the effects of starship weapons.

• • [...]

It's only Mccoy questioning how dangerous it will be for the people on the planet. Sulu was able to answer immediately, which suggests the answer was obvious to him.

This does not convince me.

When McCoy asked »How can we be powerful enough to wipe out a planet and still be so helpless?«, they were still thinking about breaking through the field directly above the asylum. In this instance nobody objected to his assumption to »be powerful enough to wipe out a planet.« McCoy may be a physician and not a weapon specialist. But nevertheless should he know round about how powerful their weapons are - especially as he is a military physician. Only later they talked about cutting through a section of the force field at its weakest point onthe far side of the planet. And only then there was a margin of safety for the people in the dome.

But it's possible that his statement about their power has nothing to do with what would happen on Elba II if they are firing through the field. He could have said as well »How can we be powerful enough to translocate a planet and still be so helpless?« or »How can we be powerful enough to destroy whole star systems and still be so helpless?« The first part decribes only what they can do (abstract), the second part shows that this power is not enough to solve the problem - or that power alone can't solve the problem.

which sounds like McCoy expects them to have to hike it there on foot. Is the shuttle going to spontaneously combust once they're on the ground or something? Yes, they still can't get through the damn dome, but the distance or the poisonous atmosphere should be a nonproblem.

They are talking about a field - not a shield with clear boundaries. It may be impossible for the shuttle to fly through such a force field.

Thousands of miles sounds far too small for an earth sized planet. Which leaves three possibilities:
- The planet is smaller than earth. How small can a planet be while still retaining an atmosphere ?
- Mccoy was accounting for how far a shuttle could travel.
- Mccoy underestimated the distance.

From Sydney, New South Wales, Australia to London, UK it's round about 10500 miles [according to Google maps]. I would say, that are thousands of miles.
How can this sounds far too small for an earth sized planet?

[Batman]

which sounds like McCoy expects them to have to hike it there on foot. Is the shuttle going to spontaneously combust once they're on the ground or something? Yes, they still can't get through the damn dome, but the distance or the poisonous atmosphere should be a nonproblem.

They are talking about a field - not a shield with clear boundaries. It may be impossible for the shuttle to fly through such a force field.

We're talking about a freaking planetary shield. The damned thing is going to be in the way wherever they try to land the shuttle. They can either get the shuttle through it or they can not. Since Sulu brings up the shuttle in the first place, he if nobody else seems to believe they can get a shuttle through the shield which brings us back to since they have a shuttle, why would they need to travel on foot all the way?

And while I, too, am quote satisfied with 'thousands of miles', I can absolutely see why people would expect the statement to read 'more than 10,000 miles' for a distance of, well, more than 10,000 miles (for Earth, 'halfway around the planet' would be about 20,000km or 12,500 miles).

I also just realized that 'far side of the planet' means just that-somewhere on the far side of the planet. That doesn't necessarily mean the exact opposite of the asylum's location, just somewhere on the opposite hemisphere, meaning the trip could be a quite a bit shorter than half the planet's circumference.

[Ted C]

We already know that the Enterprise can execute General Order 24 to destroy a planetary civilization, so we know that they can "wipe out a planet". The claim does not require blasting the whole planet to rubble.

Sulu's shuttle suggestion certainly makes it sound like landing a shuttlecraft through the shield might be possible, but maybe continuously flying while the shield is operating is not an option for some reason.

Also, it still seems like using phasers against the shield anywhere is somehow a threat to the asylum.