Doctor Who S33E15 "The Time of the Doctor" [Spoilers]

[DaveJB]

Incidentally, we still don't know the circumstances which led to River learning the Doctor's true name

Yes we do - he whispered it to her during the S6 finale.

And once again, Clara "Mary Sue" Oswald saves the day. Rose Tyler's stint as a deus ex machina may have been annoying... but at least it was brief. Seriously, she's got nothing on Clara, who is single handily responsible for everything from ret-conning the Time War, to giving the Doctor a new set of regenerations, to even his choice of TARDIS!

Um, Clara didn't single-handedly change the outcome of the Time War. The Moment allowed the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors in through the Time Lock so they could help push the Big Red Button, then Clara said to the three Doctors, "Guys, is this really necessary?" which lead to the War Doctor coming up with the plan to save Gallifrey. Saying that Clara's a Mary Sue for that implies that any other companion would have happily let the Doctors blow up the Time Lords, and then just shrugged their shoulders and let the Doctor be blown to shreds at Trenzalore, which somehow I don't think would be the case.

As for Clara getting him to choose that particular TARDIS, remember why she was there in the first place - to counteract the Great Intelligence screwing up the Doctor's history. Chances are the Intelligence somehow changed things so that the Doctor would have ended up with an even less reliable TARDIS, or one which he could actually control too well and prevent him randomly stumbling into adventures.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well out of universe, I'd assume that was because War Doctor hadn't been created yet.

in-universe... timey-wimey!

More likely in-universe explanation: very few people, if anyone, were aware of the meta-crisis Doctor and the War Doctor, especially before the Time Lords return. For the meta-crisis one, theres only a handful of people who know, most of whom are the Doctor's friends and won't say anything or are dead, like Davros.

As for the War Doctor, the only people who would know about him are those invovled directly in the Time War, most of whom were destroyed/stranded when it ended.

[NecronLord]

No using River would have been even more stupid and made her even more of a mary sue. Time Lords being granted new regenerations on Gallifrey has been canon since they did it for the Master to get him to fight in the Time War.

Since the Five Doctors actually - not coincidentally I suspect, where the Doctor got the seal of the high council. There's a scene where the Inner Council send the Master into the Death Zone to find the Doctor with the promise of a new regeneration cycle as a reward. When he finds the Doctor the Doctor disbelieves this story and 'confiscates' the Great Seal and apparently has kept it ever since.

[jollyreaper]

The only way I can think of using them is if they're kept busy keeping other time technology in check. Time Vortex Police which, with more races using such tech since the Time War, would keep them busy for a bit. Even this, however, takes away a part of the Doctor's role.

I agree that the Time Lords present that sort of conundrum. The way I see it, the best conflict between their position and the Doctor's would be that the Time Lords represent collective good and the Doctor represents individual good. We saw 10 spent a regeneration saving one old man who couldn't have more than few years left in him. I could see the Time Lords making sociopathically-pragmatic calls for the greater good, like sacrifice half a species to save the other half. Is half better than none? Yes. But it's still awful. The Doctor is the one to bang on the table and yell about the other half: losing them is unacceptable, there must be another way.

The best tension between the two positions is when it's not entirely clear who is right. The usual scenario we would encounter in scifi is the captain of the Enterprise trying to decide whether or not to risk the safety of his ship for one crewmember. Good of the many, good of the one, but if you're too glib either way on the issue you may be making a mistake.

[Havok]

Doing it from the other side of the universal crack was a little silly and the regenablaster is a lot silly.

Why? It destroyed the TARDIS in Matt Smith's first episode.

[Havok]

I'm not seeing the big deal with the stasis issue. it's Time Lord tech and they had however long to figure out how to get Out of it assuming they didn't already know how.

[Crazedwraith]

Doing it from the other side of the universal crack was a little silly and the regenablaster is a lot silly.

Why? It destroyed the TARDIS in Matt Smith's first episode.

That was also silly. I disliked it then, I dislike it now. Though I'll concede you're right there is a precedent.

[Iroscato]

I just hate how each regeneration has been consecutively more destructive - In classic Who it was a quiet, even serene affair in comparison. Tennant wrecked the TARDIS as he bade goodbye, and now Smith goes up like a bloody atom bomb and wipes out an entire village. I know each director has their own interpretation but by the next regeneration a significant chunk of the cosmos will be vaporised if things continue the way they are.

[Broomstick]

If each regeneration becomes progressively more destructive maybe that's why the Time Lords imposed a 12 regen limit?

My interpretation is that regeneration energy can be used for a variety of things - 10 used it to regenerate an amputated hand, for example. River Song used it to blast some Nazis before stealing their motorcycle. The Doctor prefers to be in the TARDIS while regenerating to help contain any energy spill-over.

At this point the Doctor isn't doing "normal" regenerations any more. His regeneration has been modified by the Sisterhood's potions, by River Song giving him her regenerations, and the beginning of a new cycle. Who know what sort of side effects all that could have?

Strictly speaking, it was the regeneration energy 11 shot off before the actual regeneration that blew things up, the actual regeneration, when it finally occurred, was pretty tame compared to past ones.

[Eternal_Freedom]

As for Ten's regeneration being destructive, I always figured that was because he held on too long so he could do that damned goodbye montage.

[Iroscato]

As for Ten's regeneration being destructive, I always figured that was because he held on too long so he could do that damned goodbye montage.

Y'know, I actually liked the montage, especially when he sees the great-granddaughter of the woman he fell in love with as John Smith. I know it was overblown and really too much, but compared to the rest of the episodes is was almost a light relief, and it tied up a couple of loose ends along the way.

[Eternal_Freedom]

It wasn't particularly egregious, it's just that is was basically a retread of Journey's End. Which should be avoided at all costs. That and it dragged on a while.

[Tribble]

Incidentally, does the apparent age of the Doctor's new incarnation have any impact on how long that incarnation will last? 12 already looks older than 11, but he has only just regenerated. Would he have a smaller natural lifespan than 11, or would he age slower?

[Enigma]

I find it weird that during the series 11 went off on his own for 200 years and didn't noticeable age. He spends 300 years with the town and he ages big time.

My first impression of Capaldi as the Doctor was not that great. He looked like someone you need to keep children away from and he also seemed to be an idiot. I hope he improves once season 8 gets underway.

Overall, I quite enjoyed the special.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I don't think apparent age has any bearing on that bodies lifespan. I mean, Seven looked older than Six did but Seven apparently didn't last very long, if his remark about "900 years experience" in Remembrance of the Daleks is any indicator. For an example of it working the other way, Nine looked younger than the War Doctor but lasted a year at most.

The age a regeneration lasts is apparently fairly constant, since in The Deadly Assassin Goth remarks to another Tiem Lord "are you perhaps overdue for regeneration?" It's just the Doctor tends to get a lot mroe involved in life-threatening danger than the average Time Lord does.

Hell, you even have Two's remark that Time Lords "live forever, barring accidents." So how long a new regeneration lasts is entirely dependent on what that regeneration does and how foolhardy he is.

[Tribble]

I think that makes sense. The rate of his aging might also depend on how much his pushes his body: the War Doctor and 11th Doctor were pretty much fighting non-stop for centuries, so it's possible that the added strain accelerated the process. It could explain why the 11th Doctor did not visibly age when he spent 200 years travelling on his own: he would have had the time to rest in between adventures and let his body recuperate.

[DaveJB]

Incidentally, does the apparent age of the Doctor's new incarnation have any impact on how long that incarnation will last? 12 already looks older than 11, but he has only just regenerated. Would he have a smaller natural lifespan than 11, or would he age slower?

This becomes interesting when you remember that the Doctor can use up his life energy to accomplish certain things, such as repairing the TARDIS in Rise of the Cybermen, and healing River's wrist in The Angels Take Manhattan. It's possible that in taking out the Daleks, Eleven used up a whole ton of what would have been Twelve's life energy, thus meaning that the latter started his life at a much older age than he might otherwise have done (it's worth noting that the only other Doctor to look noticeably older than his predecessor was the Third Doctor, which you could construe as either the Time Lords being dicks, or the Second Doctor having lived a LOT longer in "Season 6B").

[Broomstick]

We know the Time Lords are dicks, that's been obvious since we first met them.

[PREDATOR490]

It's obvious in every episode since the Doctor is consistently a dick - He just gets away with it because 'Main Character' and 'I do cool things' modifiers.
The problem with regeneration is not that it's destructive but the fact the series simply MUST over-do it with easy crutch for a lead into the new series.

Hence, this episode is leaving us with another situation where we will have Peter Capaldi acting like an idiot while the TARDIS is potentially flying out of control... because it makes for another comedy routine. Heaven forbid the Doctor regenerate and not go into the stupid 'crazy intro' phase of the new actor.
Thus we get the silly lines like: "I don't like the color of my Kidneys"

I would have been more impressed if the Doctor regenerated and the first lines a Malcolm Tucker abuse fest. Even if you must leave out the swearing, Peter Capaldi looks like someone that will not suffer fools gladly so... fucking use that appearance to make a Doctor with a new personality rather than the repeated variations on brooding / wacky bi-polar nutcase.

[Broomstick]

The "Malcolm Tucker" comparisons and mentions piss me off because Peter Capaldi is NOT Malcolm Tucker. Malcolm Tucker is merely one character he's played among many, and Capaldi has far more talent than simply dropping F-bombs. People who heard he was chosen to play the Doctor and immediately assumed he'd play him as Tucker are fucking idiots, unable to separate the actor from the role, and should be kicked to the curb.

[Hillary]

The "Malcolm Tucker" comparisons and mentions piss me off because Peter Capaldi is NOT Malcolm Tucker. Malcolm Tucker is merely one character he's played among many, and Capaldi has far more talent than simply dropping F-bombs. People who heard he was chosen to play the Doctor and immediately assumed he'd play him as Tucker are fucking idiots, unable to separate the actor from the role, and should be kicked to the curb.

Amen to that.

I quite enjoyed the episode. Not as good as the Day of the Doctor, but good fun and tied up the last few loose ends to hand Capaldi a clean slate. There's a certain amount of handwaving going on but that's essentially always been the case with Doctor Who. I've said it on here before, but it's more of a drama series with added Sci-fi than a pure Sci-fi series, so the fact that it is not completely consistent plot-wise doesn't bother me that much as long as the characters stay consistent.

To that extent I think it worked. The Doctor trying to protect Clara by sending her away (twice) and lying to her in order to do so, him trying to defend the planet against its attackers, his bond with Handles and the general self-sacrifice was entirely consistent with 11's character throughout his tenure. Also consistent was his attempts to try and do everything himself rather than putting upon his companions - as was the companion (in this case Clara) ignoring the Doctor and helping out anyway.

It didn't surprise me that the regeneration reset button was fairly explosive - I think there's a bit of Moffat trying to outdo the Tennant regeneration scene - and I was relieved that it was the young Matt Smith back on the TARDIS, as I didn't want the old version to be his last on-screen appearance. The snap into Capaldi was well done (I think most of us were expecting another drawn out sequence) but I could have done without the Amy schmaltz.

I have very much enjoyed Matt Smith as the Doctor - he has shown a real range in the role and is one of the best, if not the best, actor to have played the Doctor. Capaldi has something to live up to - but he's perfectly capable to doing so and I can't wait to see what he brings to the show.

[Havok]

Who is Malcom Tuker?
Calpaldi reminds me of Colin Baker in that he looks like he feels superior and he should have came to all smug and annoyed.

[Iroscato]

He's the character Peter Capaldi is probably known best for playing - a spin doctor in the political comdey The Thick of It. From what I've seen, he's obnoxious, acerbic, foul-mouthed and very, very scottish

[Crazedwraith]

Hence, this episode is leaving us with another situation where we will have Peter Capaldi acting like an idiot while the TARDIS is potentially flying out of control... because it makes for another comedy routine. Heaven forbid the Doctor regenerate and not go into the stupid 'crazy intro' phase of the new actor.
Thus we get the silly lines like: "I don't like the color of my Kidneys"

By silly lines, you mean... that one line which was all he had? It was far shorter than Smith's own shtick in the same scenario.

Unless you're counting the 'do you know how to fly this thing?' but that followed on from Smith talking about everything being remembered. Which was kind of cool.

[Tribble]

It didn't surprise me that the regeneration reset button was fairly explosive - I think there's a bit of Moffat trying to outdo the Tennant regeneration scene...

There's a bit of Moffat trying to outdo everything from RTD's run, period. Which is fine, as his drive to be better than RTD generally leads to better stories... though sometimes it can get a bit silly, like this scene.