There's too much fucking Dalek's in the new Doctor Who

[Purple]

For added negativity, Caan's escape caused Journey's End which was awful.

I think that this is a tad unfair. Judging an episode based on later ones. That's like saying the allied victory in WW1 was bad because it led to WW2.

Yes it's unfair, but when you are already disinclined to like an episode because of the other reasons I listed and the wasted potential, and when looking at it in retrospect, it's another nail in the episodes coffin.

Like I said, I can watch these two and find them at least watchable, nothing to shout about but nothing particularly that made me think "fuck this." But when you start thinking about it's place int he large story, you get an "ah shit" moment and off down the rabbit hole you go, emerging with an opinion of the episode as utter shite.

I understand that feeling in general. I just am not that much into the series to feel it. But I do understand it on an intellectual level.

[Ford Prefect]

The problem with Daleks in Manhattan is that it didn't stick. If it had actually been a game changer for the Daleks it would have been better, but it feels like a whole lot of go nowhere. Which is a pity because it has what is probably one of the few truly great moments in Doctor Who (Dalek Caan reminiscing about Skaro with Mr Diagoras).

[Purple]

Thing is, if they had altered the Daleks in that way they would not have been the Daleks any more. It would basically have been the same as killing them off. It might have been great for some people from a storytelling perspective as it opens up a lot of new options. But it would also have alienated a lot of people, me included who tune in to the show explicitly to hear that beautiful voice cry "exterminate!".

[Ford Prefect]

Those people are going to have to grow up at some point.

[Flagg]

Man there is so much potential lost. Dalek civil wars, splinter groups, even shall I say it, new allies for the Doctor.

[Purple]

Those people are going to have to grow up at some point.

Those people, as you called us happen to be a substantial part of the ratings.

[Havok]

And they will fucking deal. Yeah you will have Ahriman238 screaming "OMG!! ANATHEMA!!" but most people are like Purple, (i.e., YOU) who just go "COOOL! DALEKS!!" without spending hours breaking down the entire show based on the 50 years of the canon written by 100 different people.

[Nari]

I'll give the episode this much credit: the Daleks weren't stupid enough to literally shoot themselves to death like they did in the special.

That (the Dalek fleet shooting themselves) really wrecked my suspension of disbelief when watching the 50th. *Every* ship just happened to be antipodally arranged from another and they were *all* shooting directly at another ship that they hit once Gallifrey vanished and they were all firing weapons at a planet that are lethal to their ships and they all fired at the same time (which wasn't shown in the visuals). Argh!

Although to be fair, this seems to mostly be my problem as most people I know appear to view this as completely plausible. My guess is that most people don't spend much time thinking about just how vast space around a planet is. After all, you don't even need to reference Gravity (the film) as the ISS really did move to avoid a fizzled satellite once.

[Broomstick]

That (the Dalek fleet shooting themselves) really wrecked my suspension of disbelief when watching the 50th. *Every* ship just happened to be antipodally arranged from another and they were *all* shooting directly at another ship that they hit once Gallifrey vanished and they were all firing weapons at a planet that are lethal to their ships and they all fired at the same time (which wasn't shown in the visuals). Argh!

No, you don't need EVERY ship hit by another ship, you do need some hit and exploding though. I got the impression they were so close together that you could wind up with a chain reaction.

It also lends more credibility to the notion some Daleks survived. The implication was that the Moment would have definitely killed everyone, but the "friendly fire" scenario makes some survivors more likely.

[DaveJB]

It'd also explain why the universe suddenly seems to be populated with Time War-era Daleks again, after they went to such lengths to introduce the new Dalek design early in Eleven's run (the out-of-universe explanation obviously being that Moffat realized the new design was a colossal fuck-up and brought back the RTD design).

[Eternal_Freedom]

I like to think that after Gallifrey vanished the Moment detonated itself, seeing that now no innocents would be harmed. After all, some of the Dalek ships are destroyed in their cross fire, but that doesn't account for the big damn planet-sized explosion we saw.

[jwl]

There's a dalek story every season partially because there are more stories per season. There's been at least one dalek story every 13 serials for most of doctor who's history.

I like to think that after Gallifrey vanished the Moment detonated itself, seeing that now no innocents would be harmed. After all, some of the Dalek ships are destroyed in their cross fire, but that doesn't account for the big damn planet-sized explosion we saw.

I'd agree the moment detonating makes sense, but the big planet-size explosion we see could just be those planet-destroying dalek missiles detonating. If the moment went off we really should have seen a galaxy-sized explosion.

[NecronLord]

Yeah. We've seen planet destroying dalek missiles in 'Asylum of the Daleks' after all.

[Tribble]

If the Daleks had planet destroying weapons, why didn't they use them the moment they breached the sky-trench over Arcadia?

[NecronLord]

If the Daleks had planet destroying weapons, why didn't they use them the moment they breached the sky-trench over Arcadia?

Firstly, because they wanted, at least until "the Daleks know something's up, they're increasing their firepower" when thirteen doctors showed up at once, to capture Time Lord cities. There's no concievable reason to land, given their firepower in other episodes, unless they wanted to capture territory.

Of course a planet sized bang doesn't indicate a planet killer in operation, but there's no reason to think that fleet wouldn't have carried planet killers, given how ubiquitous they are, they even come in satchel-charges in the Whoverse (The Desolator from Nightmare in Silver, and the bomb from Earthshock spring to mind).

[Havok]

See, old SDN someone would have done clacs and posted pictures and a graph or something based on the size of Dalek ships and the size of Gallifrey and shown what 10 million ships around it would actually look like.