Bible Question

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-03-16 07:51pm

I'm currently in a debate about religion in another forum (its actually the same debate I've posted on before). However, I'm not really up on the Bible, so I need a helping hand. Can some one point me to a few examples were the gospels of the New Testiment contradict one another?

Thanks

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-16 08:13pm

LOL.

Where to begin, where to begin. Hoo boy, I think that you can find some examples on infidels.org. Maybe you can check.

If you would like to go buy an awesome book on this topic, check out "Jesus the Evidence" by Ian Wilson.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-03-16 08:19pm

HOLY SHIT MAN!

That oughta liven things up. Thanks.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-16 08:26pm

Oh, here we go! Here's something that might help you.

http://www.atheists.org/church/contradictions.html

Kuroneko · Post by **Kuroneko** » 2003-03-16 08:32pm

Contradictions between New Testament and the Old are easy to find, but I can think of only one place where NT contradicts itself in such a way that even the apologists can't squirm out of it (which is probable due more to my general ignorance of the Bible rather than lack of such passages).

Matthew 1 and Luke 3. Two conflicting geneologies for Jesus's descent from David. Apologists claim one is via Joseph and the other is via Mary, but that really strains credulity, since
"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." (Matthew 1:16)
"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli," (Luke 3:22)

Clearly, the lineages claim that Joseph was both the son of Jacob and the son of Heli at the same time.

How about places where the New Testament contradicts historical fact?

The End of the World/Second Coming/etc.: Matthew 16:28, Luke 21:32-33, Romans 13:11-12, James 5:8, 1 John 2:18, 1 Peter 4:7
Summary: It is within the lifetimes of whoever they're talking to. Obviously, unless those people can live over 1900 years, that is not the case.

Hmm... where did I originally swipe that from...
aha! http://www.atheists.org/church/contradictions.html

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-16 08:33pm

The quality of the Bible's continuity would embarrass post-Enterprise Trek.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-16 08:55pm

Matthew 1 and Luke 3. Two conflicting geneologies for Jesus's descent from David. Apologists claim one is via Joseph and the other is via Mary, but that really strains credulity, since
"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." (Matthew 1:16)
"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli," (Luke 3:22)

Of course, Joseph and Heli could be the same person- Barnabas was also Matthias, you know. Or the translation could be wrong. Or the author could have heard Joseph's father's name incorrectly. It's a rather trivial thing.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-03-16 09:13pm

Arrow Mk84 wrote:I'm currently in a debate about religion in another forum (its actually the same debate I've posted on before). However, I'm not really up on the Bible, so I need a helping hand. Can some one point me to a few examples were the gospels of the New Testiment contradict one another?

Thanks

Read the differant gospels concerning Jesus death and resurrection. They tend to contradict each other about what actually happened.

Kuroneko · Post by **Kuroneko** » 2003-03-16 09:14pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Of course, Joseph and Heli could be the same person- Barnabas was also Matthias, you know. Or the translation could be wrong. Or the author could have heard Joseph's father's name incorrectly. It's a rather trivial thing.

That part was just to illustrate that Mary was clearly not in the equation, despite some apologists' claims. The discrepancy hardly ends here--excepting David, Joseph, and Jesus themselves, the lists only share two names. The rest--more than 20 in either case--are completely different.

But despite being completely contradictory, I can agree that the contradiction is of relatively low value since it is insignificant to the theology of the New Testament, which is what really matters (other than to the belief of literal Biblical infallability, of course). Hence the end-of-the-world passages I referenced (or rather, swiped the references for).

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-16 10:39pm

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

Have fun.

EDIT: Oh, and if you'd like a basic rundown of the incidents involving God killing people directly and not going through a pesky middleman like Moses, you can check out my God vs. Satan essay.

http://www.daltonator.net/durandal/religion/satan.shtml

Commander_Arvel_Crynyd · Post by **Commander_Arvel_Crynyd** » 2003-03-17 06:20am

not really contradiction... but interesting

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty.html

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-03-17 08:47am

Arrow Mk84 wrote:I'm currently in a debate about religion in another forum (its actually the same debate I've posted on before). However, I'm not really up on the Bible, so I need a helping hand. Can some one point me to a few examples were the gospels of the New Testiment contradict one another?

Thanks

http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/index.html

Very detailed, itemized discussion on bible errors. The good thing about this site is that its organized into topics, so if you want the bible's take(s) on slavery (for example), you can find it easily.

The more obvious errors are very specific: for example, the number of people who went to visit Jesus' tomb is different in each chapter.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-03-17 11:31am

One of my favourits has always been jesus's last words:
Matthew 27:46 version "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Luke 23:46 version "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit."
John 19:30 version "It is finished."

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-17 03:48pm

you know, after reading those links, Im shifting religiously again. where to next tho . . . -ponders-

Sriad · Post by **Sriad** » 2003-03-17 09:55pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:you know, after reading those links, Im shifting religiously again. where to next tho . . . -ponders-

Have you tried out Unitarian Universalism? We've got some good folks. If you want to stay Christiany the United Church of Christ is a pretty good and progressive church.

Or you could be a Zoroastrian. Keeper of the flame and all that, it would be cool to be able to say I "know" a Zoroastrian. And it's just so much fun to say!

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-03-17 10:56pm

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible has been one of my favorite sources.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-17 11:34pm

Sriad wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:you know, after reading those links, Im shifting religiously again. where to next tho . . . -ponders-
Have you tried out Unitarian Universalism? We've got some good folks. If you want to stay Christiany the United Church of Christ is a pretty good and progressive church.

Or you could be a Zoroastrian. Keeper of the flame and all that, it would be cool to be able to say I "know" a Zoroastrian. And it's just so much fun to say!

currently christian maltheist - read the bible, god hates you. but Im tiring of that, it's so depressing. I dunno if Im going atheist or humanist deist. still thinking.

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