Darth Maul vs Darth Vader

Faust von ASVS · Post by **Faust von ASVS** » 2002-08-23 08:16pm

If they had a fight, who do you think would win?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-23 08:18pm

Vader would win easily.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-08-23 08:21pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Vader would win easily.

I doubt it. Vader has such little maneuverability he'd have a seriously hard time against Maul's speed.

Imperial Federation · Post by **Imperial Federation** » 2002-08-23 08:27pm

Darth Vader, while not the fastest guy in a helmet in the world, is a powerful Sith Lord who can kill you with a dirty look.
Maul is a snarling dog on his master's leesh.

Would Vader even waste his time?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-23 08:37pm

SirNitram wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Vader would win easily.
I doubt it. Vader has such little maneuverability he'd have a seriously hard time against Maul's speed.

Vader has the Force as his ally. He is Anakin Skywalker, and is far more gifted with the Force than Maul can ever hope to be. GL has said that Dooku is as good as Maul, and we know that Vader is better than Dooku (probably by a lot). Fact is, Maul lost to TWO Jedi. Vader killed hundreds, possibly thousands of Jedi and only died from a Force-blast (and possibly something else. Perhaps the Emperor was keeping him alive?). I reiterate my above statement. Vader would win easily.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-23 08:58pm

Appearances can be deceiving. In Jedi combat, powerful Jedi will use the Force to block their opponents' moves (read the AOTC novelization). Why do you think Obi-Wan was so much slower and less agile in AOTC than he was in TPM?

Against Vader, Maul would not be anywhere near as agile as he was against Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, because Vader would be using the Force to limit his movements.

When Sith Lords and Jedi Knights do battle, the battle takes place on two planes. We can only see one of them.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-08-23 10:05pm

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lucas himself refer to the Luke/Vader fight in ROTJ as a "half trained boy fighting an old cripple"

I fail to see how Maul could lose to an "old cripple"

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-08-23 10:06pm

I vote for Vader. That metal face of his would make for a very painful head butt. Even for a bad-ass like Maul, you know its gonna hurt.

Kinda reminds me of a joke I heard: "How did Princess Leia's butt get sore?"

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-08-23 10:37pm

course, how many twentyish yr olds can lift vader's armor? he may be old, but he's not weak, or incompetent. . .

Jack Lain · Post by **Jack Lain** » 2002-08-23 11:24pm

Vader all the way. Maul is a fast, but Lord Vader is the real shit.

You have to remember, in ROTJ Lord Vader has been through a hell of a lot. He is still powerful as hell, but he had the conflict when it came to his son. We see no reluctance to strike down a defenseless Obi Wan. None. He strikes with his sabre and cuts Obi Wan down. This is very different than killing your son.

Luke, his son, is possibly stronger in the force than his father.
Also, if Anakin is supposed to bring balance to the force - then having a son that accomplishes that task fits the description. No one said that Anakin himself was the one to do it. So he still fulfills the prophecy.

Anakin, father of Luke, brings balance through his blood. Now ponder that.

Imperial Federation · Post by **Imperial Federation** » 2002-08-23 11:24pm

Shadow WarChief wrote:Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lucas himself refer to the Luke/Vader fight in ROTJ as a "half trained boy fighting an old cripple"

I fail to see how Maul could lose to an "old cripple"

Where'd he say that?
And anyway, Vader is not a cripple! He's cybernetically enhanced and the Force is with him, that is not a cripple.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-08-24 12:00am

On the basis of Lightsabre skill alone, Maul would have cut through Vader like butter, as would have Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, and probably even Obi-Wan Kenobi, while in his prime (AOTC). Sadly, we never get to see Vader in full force, so it's questionable how successfully he could control and limit the movement of the amazingly fast and graceful Maul. From what I've seen of Vader in combat, all the force power in the world could not make up for his complete lack of manueverability, as is seen when Luke, an untrained boy who doesn't have a fraction of the refinement of Maul, savagely bludgeons Vader into submission. I would give the edge to Maul, but that's not to say Vader wouldn't give Maul a considerable amount of trouble.

Also notice how fond of raising the blade above his head and using downward strikes Anakin was in AOTC. Vader used quite a bit of downward strikes in his combat style; I like the fact that we can see the style of Vader/Anakin evolve.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-24 12:15am

Actually, what Lucas said was, "In the original trilogy, we saw old men and Jedi apprentices fighting. In Episode I, I really wanted to show the Jedi in their prime."

Note that he did not say that Vader was less powerful than the Jedi from EpI. In fact, he was almost certainly substantially more powerful. Vader was clearly more powerful than Darth Maul.

Incidentally, Darth Wong's thing about the second plane of combat is also (HORRIBLY) alluded to in the graphic novels following the Jedi Knight videogame. The book talks about how the battle with Sariss would be fought on two plains (then, of course, it ends about one sentence later--great suspense in that one).

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-08-24 12:39am

well, I was thinking when I watched the movie that vader was playing with luke. anakin makes swiss cheese of everything he comes across, cept for dooku of course, and he's had decades to train further in lightsaber combat and dark side skills. he's old, true, but he's half machine, and they last as long as your batteries do. heh.

I'm hoping we see anakin in his new armor clean house in movie 3. . .hehe.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-24 12:47am

Durran Korr wrote:From what I've seen of Vader in combat, all the force power in the world could not make up for his complete lack of manueverability, as is seen when Luke, an untrained boy who doesn't have a fraction of the refinement of Maul, savagely bludgeons Vader into submission.

Watch that scene. Vader barely moves at all. At the end, he struggled just to raise his arm to block Luke's slashes, never mind any sort of offensive maneuver. He was obviously overwhelmed by Luke's Dark Side Force outburst. He may be unmaneuverable under normal circumstances, but watch that scene carefully; he is far below his normal standard. Only his own progeny had the innate power to do that. Maul wouldn't have been able to.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-08-24 12:49am

Of course Vader was toying with Luke, but there was nothing fake about Vader's struggling to stand on his feet when Luke attacked him in anger.

Also, can't this thread be moved to the Pure Star Wars forum?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2002-08-24 12:56am

oh, to be sure, he lost in movie 6. . .but I was thinking movie 5.

movie six, luke toasted vader, eventho he was less skilled. makes you wonder what vader could have done, if angry. or maul, if he isn't in a rage in movie 1.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2002-08-24 07:09am

It's been done. I belive it was a comic. Vader won.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-08-24 08:42am

I am oh so tired of hearing how Vader is a cripple. Once Vader in his fully armored suit glory kicks Mace Windu's ass in Episode III; I can sit back and revel in my "I was sooooooo right"-

Doesn't even have to be Mace Windu. Any Jedi Knight will do.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-08-24 08:49am

nightmare wrote:It's been done. I belive it was a comic. Vader won.

Indeed. Vader stabbed himself through the chest plate, impaling Maul, who stood behind him.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » 2002-08-24 09:21am

Eleas wrote:
nightmare wrote:It's been done. I belive it was a comic. Vader won.
Indeed. Vader stabbed himself through the chest plate, impaling Maul, who stood behind him.

And the fact that Maul was ravaging Vader up until he pulled that cheapo move counts for nothing?

Maul is far and away the better fighter.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-08-24 10:08am

Gunner wrote:
Eleas wrote:
nightmare wrote:It's been done. I belive it was a comic. Vader won.
Indeed. Vader stabbed himself through the chest plate, impaling Maul, who stood behind him.
And the fact that Maul was ravaging Vader up until he pulled that cheapo move counts for nothing?

Maul is far and away the better fighter.

The better fighter is the one who walks away.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-08-24 10:38am

I'd take Vader over Maul any day of the week. Say what you like about Vader at least he doesn't jump around doing backflips and shit leaving himself totally open to attack. God only knows how Qui-Gon got himself killed against that flashy fool.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-24 11:46am

What's this? It looks like Vader is tearing off Darth Maul's little horns and is gouging at Maul's eyes with them! And down goes Maul!

This is Nick Nitro saying good fight, good night.

The comic was in the Infinities series, which has no bearing on anything. In actual combat, Vader would annihilate Maul.

Remember that in RotJ, Vader was also toying with Luke until Luke caved and turned temporarily to the Dark Side. Then he recovered himself, having beaten up on Vader. I should also point out that Maul seems to have the worst luck with cheap moves, losing to Obi-Wan, who Vader bested easily, and Vader in the Infinities series.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-08-24 12:00pm

I am oh so tired of hearing how Vader is a cripple. Once Vader in his fully armored suit glory kicks Mace Windu's ass in Episode III; I can sit back and revel in my "I was sooooooo right"-

We may not get to see the fully-armored Vader fight a Jedi Master; GL has said that Episode III is going to be mostly Anakin, so perhaps the tranformation to Vader is something that will occur near the end of the movie. And the fight with Obi-Wan will likely be the climax of Episode III. Obi-Wan is going to have to be in rare form in this fight, given the fact that he is one of the worst characters with a lightsaber we've seen so far.