World of Tanks Mark III

[Skywalker_T-65]

I've said it before, I'll say it again...I've never cared about my winrate and never will. I play for fun, and honestly could care less if it looks like I suck at the game (or, more realistically am merely 'average' at it).

[Vejut]

Was that with premium?

I can't imagine a tank where 1700 non premium wouldn't be enough, but for a lot of high tier tanks you'll want 1300+ (which would be 1900-2000 prem).

Carry hard, especially against higher tiers, and you can get that kind of score.

Looking at it, I think it was, I was just fooled by the fact I hadn't bought any, and the game displaying it as my high XP on that tank.
here and here are the two replays for the matches in question. Its saying the real amount was 1100 and slightly under 900 respectively, which is still a "what?" sort of moment, but more understandable.

[The Vortex Empire]

Everyone plays for fun, else they wouldn't play. I personally find winning more fun than losing. As long as people try their absolute best I don't begrudge them their skill or lack thereof, but not trying your best is just being a dick to your team.

[Vendetta]

But the sheer idiotic waves of "stop having fun, you're cutting into my ability to look good by arbitrarily leveling up my winrate in a video game" coming off this guy's attitude is staggering.

Apart from the fact that winning is more fun than losing as already mentioned, and if you're not playing to win why play a competitive game (really, no matter your actual skill level you should at least play like you want to win), the structure of World of Tanks battles is such that it's easy see your individual influence on the outcome of a battle.

Because there are no respawns and no way to regain HP, every time you shoot an enemy tank and a number comes out you are bringing your team closer to victory, every enemy tank killed can't come back.

But also because the pace of the game is slow winning a location with good map control (eg the hill on Mines, or the E5-F6 ridge on Cliff) makes it difficult for an enemy team to respond (especially because they've irrevocably lost strength doing so), which means that if you make an individually strong contribution to taking that good location, and then making good use of it when you have it then you know your own actions have made a significant difference to your team.

And when you see other players on your team not paying attention to the minimap, reacting even to blatantly visible enemies, missing opportunities to push out and shoot targets when they know they've just fired, and generally playing like they're too busy scratching their balls to click on a tank (if they're not "guarding arty" or whatever other scrub tactics they've devised) wasting all the good work you know you've done it's pretty fucking irritating.

And don't think that individual contribution doesn't matter because it's a 15v15 game, the gameplay of one individual makes the difference between winning 40% of games and anything up to 70% on the really high end, which is a huge impact when you're only one out of 30 players on a team.

The thing is it's not even hard to be reasonably good at tanks. I mean I can do it and I usually suck balls at online shooters, especially on PC. You don't need a fat PC, you don't really need twitch reflexes, you win or lose based on knowledge and decisionmaking. The single most important thing that makes the difference between being a 45-49% player and a 50%-54% player is paying attention, paying attention to the minimap and where your team is going, paying attention to the outcome of various courses of action on your own part (as in "I always come here and never do much damage, maybe I shouln't come here, maybe I should try going over there"), and maybe even paying attention to what the enemy team is doing and who on their team has been spotted or not.

[Highlord Laan]

Double post, I know, but...

Just had an interesting experience with some ass in a T-54 who had the... whatever the mod is that presents players in a lineup with colors based on their stats. The phrase "casual gamers arnt welcome at higher tiers" stuck in my memory, and I thought...

Seriously? I'm not that good at the game, my computer sucks and always has which doesn't help, and nowadays I only play an average of... maybe several hours a month because I have a serious job and a wife to take care of now.

But the sheer idiotic waves of "stop having fun, you're cutting into my ability to look good by arbitrarily leveling up my winrate in a video game" coming off this guy's attitude is staggering.

XVM. And yeah, it's fucking retarded. I've had these assholes decide to simply AFK or get tehmselves killed because "we only had a %33 chance of victory, nub. Go play something else." Cue me and four others pulling off a win, forcing these shitheads to eat a measly 700xp or so on a win.

Their pained screaming in the chat interface were music, especially when more than a few tried to kill us while we capped.

[Vendetta]

People who suicide out of battles won't have good stats anyway though, because they will have all those 0 damage games they suicided out of.

So they're probably contributing to the fact that their win chance is only 33%


You should install XVM though, the minimap and spot status indicators (showing whether a player is spotted currently, has been spotted but isn't now, or never been spotted) are so useful in a game about situational awareness.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Let me rephrase this:

I don't care about my winrate insofar as I could care less if I lose half my matches because my team sucks. I didn't mean I don't try my hardest to win, because I do. I just get fun out of the challenge, and if that means losing due to sucky team, so be it.

[Simon_Jester]

But the sheer idiotic waves of "stop having fun, you're cutting into my ability to look good by arbitrarily leveling up my winrate in a video game" coming off this guy's attitude is staggering.

Apart from the fact that winning is more fun than losing as already mentioned, and if you're not playing to win why play a competitive game (really, no matter your actual skill level you should at least play like you want to win), the structure of World of Tanks battles is such that it's easy see your individual influence on the outcome of a battle.

Because there are no respawns and no way to regain HP, every time you shoot an enemy tank and a number comes out you are bringing your team closer to victory, every enemy tank killed can't come back.

But also because the pace of the game is slow winning a location with good map control (eg the hill on Mines, or the E5-F6 ridge on Cliff) makes it difficult for an enemy team to respond (especially because they've irrevocably lost strength doing so), which means that if you make an individually strong contribution to taking that good location, and then making good use of it when you have it then you know your own actions have made a significant difference to your team.

I'm sensitive to this, my problem is that when I go for a key location in an attempt to make a decisive difference, I tend to get blown to bits in short order by all the other team players who have the same idea.

And when you see other players on your team not paying attention to the minimap, reacting even to blatantly visible enemies, missing opportunities to push out and shoot targets when they know they've just fired, and generally playing like they're too busy scratching their balls to click on a tank (if they're not "guarding arty" or whatever other scrub tactics they've devised) wasting all the good work you know you've done it's pretty fucking irritating.

Yeah, well, I try to take and hold useful terrain and so on. I play with the intent of winning. I fight.

I just fight badly.

My aim is poor; my computer is slow to respond (typically something like 6-7 fps, which really is a bit low even for a game that doesn't need a supercomputer) so I overcorrect a lot when trying to get the gun onto a specific target, which means that shots I aim for the flank of an enemy tank go into the track, or ricochet off the angled glacis, a lot.

I'm not especially dextrous on the controls; this could be blamed on my computer but a real part of it's me. I lose a lot in close-range turning fights- not always, but a lot. And not just because I tend to drive bigger clunkier tanks that are less demanding on my driving, navigation, dodging, and use of terrain.

My ability to read terrain is poor; I pick positions that are well-protected from one direction but very open from other directions, then get fried by enemies I should have seen coming. Or that SEEM to be well-protected and seem to be hull-down, but then I'm getting potted regularly by enemies several hundred meters away like I was exposing a target the size of a barn to them.

There are several new maps that I didn't play intensively back a year or two ago when I had more time for the game, so I don't know the layout very well- like that new 'Korean' map. I have no idea which way to drive whatever tank I'm in, though I try to follow general rules like 'heavies should usually pick a short road to the enemy.'

I try to use cover and angling effectively to improve my tank's defense, but a lot of the time it doesn't work. I try to pull my own weight, but I often fail.

The thing is it's not even hard to be reasonably good at tanks. I mean I can do it and I usually suck balls at online shooters, especially on PC. You don't need a fat PC, you don't really need twitch reflexes, you win or lose based on knowledge and decisionmaking. The single most important thing that makes the difference between being a 45-49% player and a 50%-54% player is paying attention, paying attention to the minimap and where your team is going, paying attention to the outcome of various courses of action on your own part (as in "I always come here and never do much damage, maybe I shouln't come here, maybe I should try going over there"), and maybe even paying attention to what the enemy team is doing and who on their team has been spotted or not.

Again, I try to do this- but I don't seem to react correctly. Sometimes I'm torn; is it smarter to try and plug this obvious gap in the line where the team forgot to defend a key location effectively? Or to go with the herd and hope that concentration of force at the decisive point will win.

Usually on those occasions I go for the 'lone defender' option... then I lose because my tactical skills aren't up to the task of meaningfully delaying 3-4 enemy tanks.

Again, I fight, I am seriously trying to contribute to my team's chances of victory... but I still have a 48% win rate. And yet I enjoy the game.

The status indicators in XVM sound interesting.

[Vendetta]

I'm sensitive to this, my problem is that when I go for a key location in an attempt to make a decisive difference, I tend to get blown to bits in short order by all the other team players who have the same idea.

When you're in a fight, especially a peekaboom heavy fight, pay attention to enemy reloads. Only be exposed when you're going to fire, and expose and fire when the enemy has just done so. Keep your HP in the early part of the game so you can spend it later.

My aim is poor; my computer is slow to respond (typically something like 6-7 fps, which really is a bit low even for a game that doesn't need a supercomputer) so I overcorrect a lot when trying to get the gun onto a specific target, which means that shots I aim for the flank of an enemy tank go into the track, or ricochet off the angled glacis, a lot.

In most situations though WoT is fundamentally a slow game. It takes a number of seconds for your aim circle to close, so as long as you're not jerking the mouse about you can correct your aim to quite a degree whilst waiting for that to happen. You don't need to be fast to respond, it's far more useful to be able to preplan and predict so you don't need to respond.

My ability to read terrain is poor; I pick positions that are well-protected from one direction but very open from other directions, then get fried by enemies I should have seen coming. Or that SEEM to be well-protected and seem to be hull-down, but then I'm getting potted regularly by enemies several hundred meters away like I was exposing a target the size of a barn to them.

This is about learning though. If you get shot in a position you thought you were safe, look at where you get shot from and figure out whether you can get safe from there. You might get shot up a few times learning, but it's about learning more than being able to read a map sight unseen.

There are several new maps that I didn't play intensively back a year or two ago when I had more time for the game, so I don't know the layout very well- like that new 'Korean' map. I have no idea which way to drive whatever tank I'm in, though I try to follow general rules like 'heavies should usually pick a short road to the enemy.'

If you're following that as a general rule it's probably leading you to all sorts of bad places. I think there are more maps where it's not true than where it is. Heavies should go to a position with good map control that provides a good deal of hard cover. Take Cliff again for instance, heavies should generally go to the 8/9 line to fight around the lighthouse cliff, it's the longest route to the enemy, but it's the one with the best cover, and trying to push the 1 line just means you get eaten by the tank destroyer at the end and have poor map control if you do make it through due to being on lower ground and easy for overlooking tanks to shoot. (likewise: Lakeville valley, there is no reason to ever go there)

Again, I try to do this- but I don't seem to react correctly. Sometimes I'm torn; is it smarter to try and plug this obvious gap in the line where the team forgot to defend a key location effectively? Or to go with the herd and hope that concentration of force at the decisive point will win.

Usually on those occasions I go for the 'lone defender' option... then I lose because my tactical skills aren't up to the task of meaningfully delaying 3-4 enemy tanks.

A lone defender situation is almost always going to fail. Remember that you can use the S key. If you're on your own on a flank leave. The best place to defend your cap from is from the other side of it than the enemy is coming from (because once they have your cap half of them will stop in it, meaning that the problem scenario of being swamped by multiple opponents is less likely to happen)


Remember though, a fight in tanks is decided before the first shell is fired, anticipating beats reacting, and that's all in your mind, not your mechanical skill.

[The Vortex Empire]

A lone defender situation is almost always going to fail. Remember that you can use the S key. If you're on your own on a flank leave. The best place to defend your cap from is from the other side of it than the enemy is coming from (because once they have your cap half of them will stop in it, meaning that the problem scenario of being swamped by multiple opponents is less likely to happen)


Remember though, a fight in tanks is decided before the first shell is fired, anticipating beats reacting, and that's all in your mind, not your mechanical skill.

Expanding on this, you often see people complaining about "lemming trains," insinuating that an even spread to all flanks is a good tactic. It is not.

This article explains it better than I could.
http://rocketbrainsurgeon.com/hoping-yo ... -strategy/

Hoping your opponents suicide isn’t a strategy

Every game, there will be someone saying the following:

“Let them come to us!”
“Let’s ambush them.”
“GUISE, just wait here”

Yes, sometimes this “works”: the opponents will blindly walk in front of your teams’ guns and explode. But what happens when they don’t suicide? Well, then you’re stuck.

While the mechanics of many games favors defensive positions a little more than offensive ones simply due to being pre-aimed on the exact spot the enemy will appear, this doesn’t mean that defending is the way to go. There’s a much better strategy available that is typically frowned upon, but very easy to do with zero communication: out-numbering the enemy, often dismissively called “lemming rushes”.

The great strength of out-numbering the enemy is obvious and simple: more guns = more boom. So why is it looked down upon and or discouraged? Because if it fails, then your teammates will have to come up with a reason why it failed because it obviously wasn’t them! And in some ways they are right, and some ways they are wrong.

How to cultivate a good lemming rush with zero communication or teamwork



As I’ve posted before, team games don’t require teamwork.

In the beginning of the game, take note of where people are going. How your team moves out will determine what you do, even if you don’t have the best vehicle for it. There are a few ways the game can go.

Your team spreads out evenly

In this case, simply head to the place where there is more strategic value and add your presence there. Your team spreading out evenly is the second worst start of the game you can have, because if they meet a larger force they’ll tend to straight-up die. It also signifies that your team doesn’t really have any plan in mind, which is bad because they’ll just float around randomly until they die. Your presence at the strategically best situation helps add a little force there, and if your team gets outnumbered at that spot hopefully you can pull them out of it.

Your team overwhelmingly goes one way

This is actually a great thing! Most people are completely terrible, but when you get a lot of terrible in one place it can be very good. This is your best chance to win, so don’t dissuade your team from doing it! However, it takes some sacrifice by you: you are the one that has to do the dirty work and defend. It might be boring, it might be a death wish, it definitely will be thankless, but you have to do it. This is what the best players do that the average player doesn’t recognize: fill in the necessary roles no matter what. If your lemming force somehow gets wiped out despite overwhelming numbers… that does happen from time to time.

Your team strongly favors one way

You have a choice: add force to the lemming or add force to the defense. In general it’s best to aid in attacking (offense is how you win!), but there can be cases to be made based on your vehicle whether you should sit back and defend. This is the second best situation you’d like to see at the beginning of the game.

Your team just sits there and defends

Abandon all hope! This is the surest sign that your team has no plan, no will to win, very little skill, and probably some AFKer’s mixed in for good measure. The problem with defense is that given enough time, the offense can pick away at the weakest point and break through. Yes the defense could adjust theoretically, but if they had that kind of skill they’d be attacking. Plus, there’s no upside: a successful defense simply means “not losing”. Winning with people whose only skill is pulling the trigger when someone walks in front of them is difficult.

How does one player going with the lemming or defending help?

Because with a little effort, the better player accomplishes more than your average player. So you heading one way is actually equivalent to 2-3 regular players heading that way. Plus, you’d be surprised at how effective it is to be at the right place at the right time.

So tell your team to lemming on, and watch those crazy bastards go!

[Simon_Jester]

A lone defender situation is almost always going to fail. Remember that you can use the S key. If you're on your own on a flank leave. The best place to defend your cap from is from the other side of it than the enemy is coming from (because once they have your cap half of them will stop in it, meaning that the problem scenario of being swamped by multiple opponents is less likely to happen)

Thaaaat is an interesting point I will bear in mind.

Most of the rest I'm at least vaguely aware of; it's the execution I screw up.

I.e. going the wrong way for my tank type on a map where I'm still unfamiliar with the terrain and have only played it 5-10 times. Or exposing myself carelessly to enemy fire because I'm not thinking about how my position protects me from multiple angles. Or misgauging how much hull I'm exposing, or how to angle myself, or where to place shots so they won't get soaked up by the enemy's treads.

That said, well, a 48% win rate suggests I'm not actively making my team vastly worse off for being present- I only lose them the game two times out of 100. I will keep trying to improve my strategic sense, I guess.

[Jub]

Simon, I can speak to the fact that having some lag and poor frame rate can effect your stats. While trying to get some games on the NA server from here in Australia my stats have dropped from nearly 51% to barely above 50% purely due to the slight amount of lag and going from my desktop which could run the game smoother than my laptop. So you could be losing a fair bit from having a PC below what you need to play the game at that slightly better level.

[Simon_Jester]

The obvious consequences:

-Sometimes the computer wigs out (say, 3 fps, 200 ms lag) at a moment when I am imminent danger, effectively causing me to lose control of my vehicle and die.
-At all times, engaging a crossing target is hard, because I have to compensate for both the lag period and the jerky frame rate. If a tank is moving sideways across my field of view, I probably can't hit it.
-Because of the lag/fps issue, if me and another tank both see the same thing and react simultaneously, he will probably shoot first. Sometimes this matters in a one on one fight, and it fairly often seems to result in another person being the one that gets the 'most of the killing damage' shot while I get the shot that either finishes their last 10 HP, or the one that strikes their blown-up corpse.

[Jub]

The obvious consequences:

-Sometimes the computer wigs out (say, 3 fps, 200 ms lag) at a moment when I am imminent danger, effectively causing me to lose control of my vehicle and die.
-At all times, engaging a crossing target is hard, because I have to compensate for both the lag period and the jerky frame rate. If a tank is moving sideways across my field of view, I probably can't hit it.
-Because of the lag/fps issue, if me and another tank both see the same thing and react simultaneously, he will probably shoot first. Sometimes this matters in a one on one fight, and it fairly often seems to result in another person being the one that gets the 'most of the killing damage' shot while I get the shot that either finishes their last 10 HP, or the one that strikes their blown-up corpse.

I think the subtle fact that it saps your confidence to make a strong play, because that spike could hit hurts more than all of that. Hanging back instead of leading a push, or taking a defensive position over joining a push are changes I had to make due to this intercontinental lag. Lacking the confidence to make a play has dropped me back to the pack skill wise.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Granted its been awhile since I played, but I think my winrate hovers in the 49% range. So...average really.

[Zinegata]

Simon->

You may also want to read up on a thread I wrote before:

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php ... try4260111

Which basically sums up why target prioritization is a critical skill.

[Zinegata]

I think the subtle fact that it saps your confidence to make a strong play, because that spike could hit hurts more than all of that. Hanging back instead of leading a push, or taking a defensive position over joining a push are changes I had to make due to this intercontinental lag. Lacking the confidence to make a play has dropped me back to the pack skill wise.

I've found playing with the right mindset helps in winning. Even though I average 300ms lag and am currently focused on playing Tier 4 and Tier 5s to get new tanks, I am not upset to be thrown into a Tier 7/8 match. It's just another giant-slaying opportunity.

[Jub]

I think the subtle fact that it saps your confidence to make a strong play, because that spike could hit hurts more than all of that. Hanging back instead of leading a push, or taking a defensive position over joining a push are changes I had to make due to this intercontinental lag. Lacking the confidence to make a play has dropped me back to the pack skill wise.

I've found playing with the right mindset helps in winning. Even though I average 300ms lag and am currently focused on playing Tier 4 and Tier 5s to get new tanks, I am not upset to be thrown into a Tier 7/8 match. It's just another giant-slaying opportunity.

Yeah, that helps a ton. It's why if you're on a frustrating losing streak your best bet is to take a slightly break and come back fresh. Still, I'm never going to be comfortable with 300ms ping with spikes that cause you to lose control for a few seconds, but thankfully it isn't forever. I'm heading back to Canada soon enough and my win rate should recover nicely.

[Simon_Jester]

I think that the low framerate is more annoying than the lag, because it's harder to compensate for. To me at least.

[Jub]

Yeah, especially if it's low to start and then suffers drops so you can't see whenever say somebody shoots, or even after you shot because that can make peek-a-boom tougher than it should be.

[Marko Dash]

not to mention that wargaming's isp is crap and has constant packet loss even at low ping.

[krakonfour]

Two things:
-Ping is affected by framerate. Low fps causes the ping to increased to give an accurate depiction of the response delay. For example, on the same computer and internet connection, I get 50ms ping/30fps, then it goes to 200ms ping/10fps if I activate all the graphical options.
-FPS can be greatly improved with this mod and this one.

If you give me the graphic card details, I can look into overclocking it

Having a better performing computer will greatly improve both your ingame effectiveness and overall comfort while playing. This is important because then you'll play for longer without getting tired and missing out important information.

[Vendetta]

Your team overwhelmingly goes one way

This is actually a great thing! Most people are completely terrible, but when you get a lot of terrible in one place it can be very good. This is your best chance to win, so don’t dissuade your team from doing it! However, it takes some sacrifice by you: you are the one that has to do the dirty work and defend. It might be boring, it might be a death wish, it definitely will be thankless, but you have to do it. This is what the best players do that the average player doesn’t recognize: fill in the necessary roles no matter what. If your lemming force somehow gets wiped out despite overwhelming numbers… that does happen from time to time.

I think it's important to mention at this point the weakness of the Lemmingtrain.

The Lemmingtrain doesn't happen because everyone on your team chose to go the same way, it happened because they all went the way they usually go irrespective of what the rest of the team was doing.

This is because the players in it have poor situational awareness. And because they have poor situational awareness when the Lemmingtrain encounters a force of enemies which it could easily overwhelm it stops, because the players in it don't realise that they have overwhelming superiority of numbers and firepower and if they were willing to eat some damage they could power into the enemy and smash them.

What happens then is that the momentum of the train stops cold and usually 10 tanks try and fit into 3 tanks worth of cover and get destroyed.

This also happens if the train reaches an area of poor visibility like a forest, they all know that going into the forest is bad, so they stop, and they come in one by one to "spot" and die.

This replay shows how to blunt the offensive of a lemmingtrain, with the bulk of the work only coming from two tanks, (me and the Jagdtiger). If they'd just come in force during my reload we'd have been fucked, but the lemmingtrain lost its momentum at the forest edge.

If your team lemmingtrains and you're in a strong tank you need to conduct the lemmingtrain, do all you can to make it keep its momentum, and that means getting into the train and keeping your damage going to stop it getting scared.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Thanks to my preference for heavily armored brawlers, I tend to end up being the one having to push the Lemmingtrain forward. Not fun, but worth it when it works.

[Simon_Jester]

Just so long as you aren't literally pushing; in my TOG I keep having to tell people:

"Quit humping my leg, it doesn't work that way..."