Is doing the right thing worth getting punched in the mouth.

[Replicant]

Or worse even.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/g ... -1.1601896

It is becoming more and more common knowledge what kind of place Russia is. Putin is a thug at the very least and a wannabe Staling/Hitler at worse.

In the last few years he has decided that to help hide what a shit hole Russia has become behind a cloak and mirrors and surprise surprise a move right out of Hitler's playbook by targeting a population that cannot defend itself.

LGBT people in Russia are being attacked more and more often, laws have been passed to repress them, Putin himself has equated them with child molesters.

Being Gay and Proud in Russia is a great way to end up in the local ICU.

So I ask a question that I am not quite sure how to word.

Is there a benefit to waving the rainbow flag in someone's face if you know long before you do it that the likely consequence is you getting assaulted, beaten, and then quite possibly being dragged away by the police and thrown in jail for your trouble.

Are Gay Pride events and pro-Gay protests really going to accomplish anything in Russia? Or is it all just the inevitable progression towards LGBT martyrs dead under the boots, fists, and guns, or Russia's new generation of neo-Nazis?

To me protesting is doing them no good. As long as Putin is in power, which I think will basically be as long as he is alive. There will be no change and your just being futile and getting hurt in the process.

Opinions?

[Alyrium Denryle]

If it were a country other than Russia, maybe. But it is fucking Russia.

I was out back in 2000. I have chipped teeth because someone tried to make Leviticus a thing, and it was worth it, because things got better precisely because people were out. In Russia, they have made it illegal to try to change the law, let alone people's minds. At that point, their best option is just to get out. Seek Asylum in one of the sane European countries or one of Britain's children.

[Broomstick]

The "getting punched in the face for doing the right thing" strategy worked during the US Civil Rights Movement (although in some cases it wasn't about getting punched, it was about getting murdered) and brought about change BUT that requires a certain type of culture to work. In other places doing that will change nothing.

Did I mention that even in the instances where it will work it can involve considerably worse than just a punch in the face?

[Flagg]

NuHitler (Putin) has too much of a hold on power and from what I can tell seems to be able to work his will as long as the oligarchs back him, and his will right now is "Beat up the fags" (sorry for the harsh language but I feel it's utterly necessary in this post and to show my view of the situation in Russia right now. If a mod, specifically Frank thinks it's out of order then censor it, but I think it's needed). His will after the Olympics is going to be "take kids away from the fags". If history rhymes, as it all to often does it's going to get very ugly for the LGBTQ population in the Russian Reich. So no, it's not worth even being OUT in Russia let alone waving a rainbow flag in some bigoted cunts face only to be pummeled and probably put on a list. People like nuHitler like to keep lists. The advantage the LGBTQ community in Russia has is anonymity. MY advice is to keep their heads down until things change or nuHitler picks a juicier target to go after.

If my analysis of the situation is incorrect and someone with more knowledge about the goings on in the FatherMotherland is incorrect please dear Allah correct me. Because I hope I'm dead wrong.

[Elheru Aran]

The big difference between the Civil Rights movement in the US and the current LGBTQ situation in Russia is that racial discrimination is far more visible than homophobia. LGBTQ folks look like anybody, and if they aren't unified in a large enough proportion of the community, nobody is really going to be able to tell the difference between them and anybody else, so they don't really think about it or care. Race is a lot harder to hide than sexual identity, and as such non-whites in the US were eventually able to visibly amass in enough numbers that America sat up and took notice.

In Russia, the LGBTQ community unifying means the government goes "ah, good, we know who to arrest now".

And that's another big difference-- the USA is not blind to the fact that other countries watch its domestic affairs and at least usually tries to avoid crimes against fundamental human rights. Russia, or rather the Russian government... don't give a shit and will do what they want regardless of what the international community says. In such an atmosphere, it's better to not be there and live somewhere you can be open about your sexual identity.

Should they have to? No. But in the current climate, standing up and protesting is pointless and would only get the protestor arrested or worse, and wouldn't really cause any change of public opinion in Russia. If a few million gay people in Russia got together and had a march on the Kremlin, then it might get noticed; but I don't think there are a few million gay people in Russia to do that in the first place.

[K. A. Pital]

Because I hope I'm dead wrong.

No, you're not. Russian economy's tanking, so blaming dem gays and dem foreigners is all too easy. And it's not worth arguing about it. The Church and Putin struck a dark chord in the souls of too many people. Best just wait until the whole thing collapses for China to take over or something.

[Flagg]

Because I hope I'm dead wrong.

No, you're not. Russian economy's tanking, so blaming dem gays and dem foreigners is all too easy. And it's not worth arguing about it. The Church and Putin struck a dark chord in the souls of too many people. Best just wait until the whole thing collapses for China to take over or something.

Yeah, that's how it starts. I just want to clarify that when I call that thug Putin nuHitler it's not because I think he's gonna invade his neighbors in wars of aggression, it's because he's deflecting things that could topple him as king of shit mountain and targeting the defenseless. It's my understanding that the majority of Russians view homosexuality in particular as a "perversion of the west". So I don't think the strategy used by the LGBTQ community in America specifically of "humanizing" the population by coming out and making people realize that they know and love someone who is LGBTQ will work. It's maddening and sad but AD is right, if you can get out of there, DO IT NOW! Otherwise stay in the closet, keep your head down, and hope it blows over and doesn't end with ovens.

[mr friendly guy]

Because I hope I'm dead wrong.

No, you're not. Russian economy's tanking, so blaming dem gays and dem foreigners is all too easy. And it's not worth arguing about it. The Church and Putin struck a dark chord in the souls of too many people. Best just wait until the whole thing collapses for China to take over or something.

Can you elaborate about Russia's economy tanking?

[K. A. Pital]

Because I hope I'm dead wrong.

No, you're not. Russian economy's tanking, so blaming dem gays and dem foreigners is all too easy. And it's not worth arguing about it. The Church and Putin struck a dark chord in the souls of too many people. Best just wait until the whole thing collapses for China to take over or something.

Can you elaborate about Russia's economy tanking?

I can, but don't you know already? GDP growth has been 1,3-1,4% last year and was then sharply revised from a rosy 4% to 2-2,5% this year. It may very well be between 1 and 2% this year, unless the recent devaluation of the rouble actually props it up somehow. All resource-selling countries experience economic slowdowns due to a multitude of factors: Iran's exports being on the market again, huge shale production in the USA and oil&gas demand in China not growing as fast as before (or shall I say as fast as projected).

[Darth Tanner]

I can, but don't you know already? GDP growth has been 1,3-1,4% last year and was then sharply revised from a rosy 4% to 2-2,5% this year.

That's still quite healthy economic growth for a major economy like Russia, especially considering lower than usual gas demandin the markets. Probably better than most of Europe.

[K. A. Pital]

I can, but don't you know already? GDP growth has been 1,3-1,4% last year and was then sharply revised from a rosy 4% to 2-2,5% this year.

That's still quite healthy economic growth for a major economy like Russia, especially considering lower than usual gas demandin the markets. Probably better than most of Europe.

That's hardly healthy for a developing economy. Russia's GDP/capita isn't at 30 000 or 40 000, it's substantially lower. It just emerged from a major crisis, so growth should've been higher too. Europe's mostly developed or heavily indebted 'zombie' economies, so their zero growth or contraction is easily explainable, just like Japan's.

[mr friendly guy]

I can, but don't you know already? GDP growth has been 1,3-1,4% last year and was then sharply revised from a rosy 4% to 2-2,5% this year. It may very well be between 1 and 2% this year, unless the recent devaluation of the rouble actually props it up somehow. All resource-selling countries experience economic slowdowns due to a multitude of factors: Iran's exports being on the market again, huge shale production in the USA and oil&gas demand in China not growing as fast as before (or shall I say as fast as projected).

I am aware of the slowing growth, its just that I personally wouldn't consider those rates "tanking," except for the 1 -2 % predicted this year which may or may not occur. Yes I realise what is considered a good rate seems to vary from analyst to analyst, so I will just leave it at that.

[K. A. Pital]

But it is tanking - it had average growth way, way bigger, excluding the immediate crisis year. Post-crisis years have been marked with an over 3% growth, too, and now even that's gone.

[mr friendly guy]

Ok, given that graph I will concede the point about Russia's growth rate tanking.