Is it true that 1 in 10 people are sociopaths?

[Flight Recorder]

I've seen this figure thrown around a lot in various literature. Is it true? I came across this article. Reading through some of the comments, the impression I am getting is either people are jumping to quick conclusions and didn't read the article in its entirety, or are too stupid to see the link between torturing animals and violence to human beings. Or are psychopaths themselves. I was actually surprised with the amount of indifferent, hateful, scornful people. How is torturing a larger mammal worse than torturing a small one? Isn't it the same thing? They're both mammals, they can feel pain. Rats are rather intelligent too. It's rather ridiculous. Here are some of the more popular opinions from the people who seem to condone such behaviour:

Ummm it's a RAT!! What's the problem? Rats are a nuisance. They carry disease and infest homes. Maaann, let that man go & quit wasting our time and money on bs!

Yeah, what's the problem of cutting the ears and tails off a helpless animal while it's still living and breathing. Definitely standard procedure in pest control.

Well they might as well arrest everyone who buys a mouse trap or rat poison...What a waste of tax payer money...Really...!!!

Because legit ways to remove pests is the same as wanting to torture something and put it on YT for lulz...

I am sure it's no worse than the testing that goes on in labs and cosmetic companies

I suppose no regulations, ethics committees and anaesthesia exist in medical research. They just sit around, torturing animals for a laugh despite doing such a thing would severely fuck up any results. Okay...

Soo its "illegal" to kill rodents and this man gets punished this is b.s! But its not illegal to call a pest control. There's other more things to worry about, paedophiles, gun violence etc.

I guess the police should ignore CCTV videos of people getting assaulted because there's more things to worry about, like murder, rape, etc. The police clearly shouldn't act on direct evidence to an illegal activity, even though it might be relatively minor. Great logic brah.

I'm not supporting what this man did, I'm definitely against abuse of animals like dogs and cats but rats and mice people?? Really??

Apparently the only animals that exist as far as cruelty goes are dogs and cats, never mind the fact that a mouse and rat are mammals and would feel pretty much the same thing.

Anyone who defends rats against rat killer/torturers are idiots. Those nasty creatures deserve whatever death they get. Why is he apologizing for how he killed, none needed. The authorities are idiots for wasting taxpayer dollars on this. When rodents like possums or whatever invaded my space I let my sons burn, bash gut them whatever it took to keep the Lil nasty things away. Nah runteldat! Better yet let them run through where u live!

What a piece of work this person is. I think taxpayer money would be better spent on castrating her sons, and sending her to a mental asylum. And a textbook while she's there, to learn that possums are NOT rodents.

Seriously it was a rat....no one likes rats. A rat is NOT an animal or anything anyone wants near them.

Another person who needs a textbook. I guess rats are some sort of mystical mushroom that moves and squeaks. PS. I like rats so fuck this guy.

What can we gloss from this? Is that really representative of the majority? There were some comments in there that were actually voice of reasons in comparison (ie. link between torturing animals to violent behaviour), but were drowned out by ignorant BS.

[Darth Tanner]

Animal cruelty is traditionally the early sign of someone who ultimately commits similar cruelty to humans.

Plus the internet is a great viewpoint into the horrors of human stupidity and arrogance. Who knew.

[The Grim Squeaker]

"Sigh". First of all, your title is misleading the the content of this thread and article.

Secondly, "Psychopaths" and "sociopaths" are NOT the same thing. (It always annoys me whenever Sherlock mixes the terms up).

Thirdly, The rate of sociopathy is usually estimated at being between 1-3 %. This is a problematic estimation, since sociopathic behavior (or the behavior you'd associate with psychopaths [which is NOT the same] doesn't mean the person is a p/s-path, nor does lack of said behavior imply it).
(In addition, sociopaths tend to have abnormal representation in...certain fields (Prisons and as CEOs in fact).

If anyone feels like arguing I'll start copying sources, but seriously, this is wikipedia level stuff. (You don't need a degree in neuroscience or psychobiology to know/remember it )

[madd0ct0r]

could you define the two for me? passing interest and and of course sherlock fan

[The Grim Squeaker]

could you define the two for me? passing interest and and of course sherlock fan

There are actually a few (not exactly rigorous) articles discussing exactly that, in this context

http://io9.com/5933869/stop-calling-she ... ychologist



I'm afraid I don't have time to start digging up definitions, (exam!), but a quick google gives this which seems decent -
http://knowledgenuts.com/2013/11/03/the ... ociopaths/

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Psycho ... _Sociopath


In both cases you have non normative behavior, what you might call "lack of morality" or social conscience"or "lack of conscience/guilt", but it's.... very different. (Despite the apparent overlap).

Think of the difference between someone who'll shoot stray animals for fun, and someone who'se willing to poison a rich friend for the money. In both cases, a "real" sociopath say, will not feel any guilt about it, but the reasons differ, causes differ, and smart, criminal sociopaths are the type to do the latter while you'd expect a psychopath to do the former (outburst of violence).

It should be noted that a lot of sociopaths can very succesful, and massive contributors to society, running large philanthropic organizations or (amusingly), there was a case where a neurologist/doctor found out he was a sociopath when he accidentally diagnosed a scan of his own brain.
Lack of empathy or sympathy (one of those) and calculation doesn't make anyone violent or antisocial, (but it means that the risks of being so are higher. As said, sociopaths are highly overrepresented in leadership positions and in prisons).
I'd expect the "degree" of effect to change. (I.E, there's a difference between having abnormally low emapthy [like , say, most autists], and having a Count Dooku like view of the world ["Everyone else is just a meaningless puppet in my way"]).

I'd say that the Underwoods, from House of Cards [TV series] are excellent examples of sociopaths. Frank in particular is (I'd say) a textbook example. (Claire less so, since she demonstrates guilt and shame on private occasions ).

[Simon_Jester]

Flight Recorder, getting outraged at the comments on online articles is... it's so pointless, that if there were a way to take a picture of it, I'd put that picture in the dictionary beside "pointless." First, the article is accessible to even the stupidest, most ignorant, horrible, and even drunken people in the world. Second, very few truly intelligent people spend much of their time typing up comments on random Facebook articles. Therefore, your sample of comments will be skewed away from the smart comments and toward the stupid comments.

Third and in this case probably at least as important, some people are trolls. In the rather sad yet annoying sense of "likes to go places and feign an opinion they do not hold, in hopes that someone will be provoked into an extreme reaction."

Just yesterday I was playing an MMO wargame and one of the players on my team decided it would be funny to start typing in comments as though he'd just killed a girl in his house and was freaking out over "what do I do?" and running out to avoid the police.

Some people just like to say stupid crap to stir shit up.

So if you see an anonymous person on the Internet say something that you can't believe a functional human being would believe... well, they probably don't.

[Imperial Overlord]

could you define the two for me? passing interest and and of course sherlock fan

There are actually a few (not exactly rigorous) articles discussing exactly that, in this context

http://io9.com/5933869/stop-calling-she ... ychologist

That article that psychopaths and sociopaths are the same thing. The other two articles contradict each other at several points when ascribing traits to sociopaths and psychopaths. You need to actually read your sources, Squeaker.

Sociopath and psychopath are frequently used interchangeably. Both suffer from Antisocial Personality Disorder and the difference between them is basically if they believe you're a sociopath that the condition is socially caused and a psychopath if the condition is inherit in the individual. A much more important difference is whether the person is high functioning and thus potentially law abiding even if they're a self centered dick or low functioning, in which case they could be a dangerous criminal.

[Formless]

If I've said this before on this forum, I think its still relevant to say it again. Sociopath has become a generic, PC term for "asshole". Which is admittedly better than its '50's era connotations where it was used for things like homosexuality and fetishism, harmless things that White Christian Murricans just wanted to stigmatize. But still, even the actual disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder, is a personality disorder. In other words, it is diagnosed by the collection of personality traits coming together in one person leading to near compulsive thuggish behavior. Lots of people are going to have one or more of those personality traits without being clinically diagnosable, and the diagnosis is never going to be as clear cut as a diagnosis of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or a broken leg. Its a judgement call by a clinician as to whether you have a personality disorder, which means any statistic like the "1 in 10" thing should be met with skepticism.

Now, if your personal experience is that 1 in 10 people act like assholes, you are probably underestimating. Very few people are Mr. Rogers, virtually all of us have our buttons that can be pushed to create anger or jealousy or any other negative emotion. Recognizing that truth helps make you less of an asshole to people who don't deserve to be treated like a sociopath, and makes you less susceptible to intentional trolling to boot.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I see a lot of bullshit on this thread, and am feeling a bit surly.

OK. Here is the diagnostic criteria for Sociopathy (read: antisocial personality disorder) from the DSM V (yes, I have a copy)

General Traits of a Personality Disorder

The essential features of a personality disorder are impairments in personality (self and interpersonal) functioning and the presence of pathological personality traits. To diagnose a personality disorder, the following criteria must be met:

A. Significant impairments in self (identity or self-direction) and interpersonal (empathy or intimacy) functioning.

B. One or more pathological personality trait domains or trait facets.

C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.

D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual‟s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment.

E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma).

Specific Criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder

The essential features of a personality disorder are impairments in personality (self and interpersonal) functioning and the presence of pathological personality traits. To diagnose antisocial personality disorder, the following criteria must be met:

A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:

1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):
a. Identity: Ego-centrism; self-esteem derived from personal gain, power, or pleasure.
b. Self-direction: Goal-setting based on personal gratification; absence of prosocial internal standards associated with failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior.

AND

2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):
a. Empathy: Lack of concern for feelings, needs, or suffering of others; lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another.
b. Intimacy: Incapacity for mutually intimate relationships, as exploitation is a primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion; use of dominance or intimidation to control others.

B. Pathological personality traits in the following domains:

1. Antagonism, characterized by:
a. Manipulativeness: Frequent use of subterfuge to influence or control others; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve one„s ends.
b. Deceitfulness: Dishonesty and fraudulence; misrepresentation of self; embellishment or fabrication when relating events.
c. Callousness: Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others; lack of guilt or remorse about the negative or harmful effects of one„s actions on others; aggression; sadism.
d. Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults; mean, nasty, or vengeful behavior.

2. Disinhibition, characterized by:
a. Irresponsibility: Disregard for – and failure to honor – financial and other obligations or commitments; lack of respect for – and lack of follow through on – agreements and promises.
b. Impulsivity: Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing and following plans.
c. Risk taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and potentially self-damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard for consequences; boredom proneness and thoughtless initiation of activities to counter boredom; lack of concern for one's limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger


C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.


D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual‟s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment.

E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma).

F. The individual is at least age 18 years.

Psychopathy is an older term, early research on it (prior to the DSM) was used to formulate the diagnostic criteria for ASPD in the DSM I. A distinction between the two terms has more recently been taken up by researchers as a way of delineating between causation, which leads to differences in the level of risk to others that an individual creates.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/min ... ychopath-0

There you go.

[InsaneTD]

I have a question, have any suffers of Antisocial Personality Disorder been shown to, for lack of a better term at the moment, better? More social and less antisocial? Or is it normally no change or worse?

[Alyrium Denryle]

I have a question, have any suffers of Antisocial Personality Disorder been shown to, for lack of a better term at the moment, better? More social and less antisocial? Or is it normally no change or worse?

There is actually therapy. Problem is, it can only work if you start in childhood, and you cannot officially diagnose ASPD until someone is an adult. Mostly because there are other conditions that look a hell of a lot like it (like certain conduct disorders) but may not actually be ASPD. That having been said... sometimes it is best to treat without the formal diagnosis.

As near as I understand it, the therapy is cognitive-behavioral, and basically teaches them to develop a sort of "software" empathy pathway. It is not very effective, but it does occassionally work, especially if the disorder is caught early.

[InsaneTD]

What about in people that haven't received therapy?

[Alyrium Denryle]

What about in people that haven't received therapy?

No.

[Broomstick]

Well, with age and experience some of them might become better at interacting with others, but that's not a matter of their underlying condition getting better so much as them getting better at an intellectual understanding of others. It can quite easily lead to better manipulation of others as opposed to being a nicer human being.

That, and certain criminal tendencies tend to lessen with age regardless of psychiatric status.

[Channel72]

I would imagine a lot of this goes undiagnosed. Even if you have zero empathy, it's not necessarily the case that you'd want to engage in criminal behavior. Being a successful criminal and getting away with it is pretty hard.

I make a decent living as a computer programmer, and even if I didn't care about morality I wouldn't simply start robbing banks, or mugging people in alley ways, because I could make more money with (a lot) less risk by simply working legitimately. I also lack the skills necessary to get away with most serious crimes.

Also, being an asshole to everyone is going to make your life considerably more difficult - so it's likely that even without a sense of empathy most people would still appear outwardly kind for the most part. In other words, while sociopaths might be selfish assholes, it's not necessarily in their self-interest to act like selfish assholes.

[Adam Reynolds]

Also, being an asshole to everyone is going to make your life considerably more difficult - so it's likely that even without a sense of empathy most people would still appear outwardly kind for the most part. In other words, while sociopaths might be selfish assholes, it's not necessarily in their self-interest to act like selfish assholes.

Many can be quite superficially charming and likeable as it better allows them to manipulate others. The issue is that there is nothing beyond the superficial first impression.

[Knife]

I have a question, have any suffers of Antisocial Personality Disorder been shown to, for lack of a better term at the moment, better? More social and less antisocial? Or is it normally no change or worse?

There is actually therapy. Problem is, it can only work if you start in childhood, and you cannot officially diagnose ASPD until someone is an adult. Mostly because there are other conditions that look a hell of a lot like it (like certain conduct disorders) but may not actually be ASPD. That having been said... sometimes it is best to treat without the formal diagnosis.

As near as I understand it, the therapy is cognitive-behavioral, and basically teaches them to develop a sort of "software" empathy pathway. It is not very effective, but it does occassionally work, especially if the disorder is caught early.

It's been a while but I do believe in cases with kids it is called Conduct Disorder and not ASPD. Anyway, from what I do remember (psych nursing is sooo not my field) the later the onset of Conduct Disorder happens in an adolescent, the better the prognosis and chances of therapy working. The earlier signs and symptoms of psychotic behavior and/or sociopath, the less treatment works. So, if you're kid is fine until he's 15, treatment works ok, if your kids is off his/her rails at 4, they're screwed.

And I didn't see it in the DSM but you'd expect some psychotic behavior, a psychosis in a psychopath. Meaning basically they are living a delusion, believe something it totally true that isn't. A break in reality if you will.

[Alyrium Denryle]

It's been a while but I do believe in cases with kids it is called Conduct Disorder and not ASPD. Anyway, from what I do remember (psych nursing is sooo not my field) the later the onset of Conduct Disorder happens in an adolescent, the better the prognosis and chances of therapy working. The earlier signs and symptoms of psychotic behavior and/or sociopath, the less treatment works. So, if you're kid is fine until he's 15, treatment works ok, if your kids is off his/her rails at 4, they're screwed.

There, I suspect the variance would need to be partitioned between those where the etiology is genetic vs environmental, so you are only looking between groups. If they are showing signs of Conduct Disorder at 4, they are broken in the hardware, so to speak. If it shows up at 14, it is probably the proverbial software, which is easier to fix.

But if you look within each group, you probably dont want to let conduct disorder fester from the age of 4 into the teens...