Ukraine War Thread

[Thanas]

http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/liv ... ei100.html

Holy crap.

[Siege]

The place looks like a medieval battlefield got lit on fire. Holy crap indeed.

Ukrainian police are storming the main anti-government protest camp in the capital, Kiev, after months of occupation.

Explosions are taking place, fireworks are being thrown and large fires have broken out in Independence Square, known locally as the Maidan.

Police have deployed water cannon.

During the day, at least 13 people were killed, including six policemen, as protesters and security forces clashed in the worst violence in weeks.

[Thanas]

You can even see the catapults of the rebels throwing huge molotovs at targets. Geez.

[Pelranius]

Shit, now what happens if and when Yanukovych decides to storm Lviv?

[Andras]

BTR gets firebombed

video from the clashes

more video

[Agent Fisher]

That last video, the one on youtube, are those just civilians in the camo and body armor? The one with the makarov? Or are there military/police forces siding with hte protestors?


Edit: Actually, I think that's DPM, brit camo, so yeah, probably civilian.

[Prannon]

Honestly, every time I think that this whole thing is starting to die down, something goes and happens and the protests kick back up again. Does anyone else get the sense that this was just about the worst thing that the Ukrainian authorities could have done to try and bring the crisis to an end?

[K. A. Pital]

What exactly did the "authorities" do in this case? The right-wing part of the protesters decided to storm the government, now or never. Regardless of whether you sympathize with a rightist armed uprising against a corrupt cleptocratic government or not, it is really hard to see how the authorities have "done" something. They did nothing; they conceded almost everything in exchange for stopping the protest. The protesters decided that this is a sign of weakness - I agree! - and tried to bring the whole thing down.

Good luck, I guess. I wouldn't shed any tears for the government. Not that I'm a terrible fan of the Ukrainian right which is the protest' spearhead and one and only armed wing, either.

[loomer]

According to a post on SomethingAwful where a user translated a facebook post from Anatoly Gritsenko, the government is sending in 500 troops to Kiev. Can't vouch for accuracy or find the post itself on facebook, however.

[Lolpah]

Is it just me, or has the livestream stopped working? It doesn't work on the Reuters main site either.

[Thanas]

Yeah, this happens everytime the police goes on the attack (I wonder why.....)

RT is still working but only shows police forces and not their actions against protesters at times...
http://rt.com/on-air/ukraine-central-kiev-protest/

[Thanas]

Anyway, the police apparently managed to conquer about one tenth of the area previously held by the protesters.

[Irbis]

Shit, now what happens if and when Yanukovych decides to storm Lviv?

How?? The government doesn't even fully control capital, and didn't dared to ask army for anything so far. They didn't even brought serious reinforcements from the east, so far I have seen no serious attempts to force the situation from them. It was all protesters so far.

That last video, the one on youtube, are those just civilians in the camo and body armor?

Look at helmet, if it's surplus soviet army steel helmet, or has trident/celtic cross scribbled in front somewhere, or black/red flag or armband, 99% civilian.

[TimothyC]

The executive committee of the Lviv region's council, the People's Rada, is assuming full responsibility for the fate of the region and citizens, the Lviv region's council said in a statement.

"The regime has begun active military action against people […] Dozens of people have been killed in Kyiv and hundreds have been wounded […] Fulfilling the will of society, the executive committee of the Lviv region's council, the People's Rada, is assuming full responsibility for the fate of the region and its citizens," the statement says.

The executive committee is comprised deputies, representatives of the Maidan self-defense, public figures, and scientists, the Lviv region's council has reported. The executive committee is led by Petro Kolodiy, chairman of the Lviv region's council.

The executive committee controls all executive administration bodies on the territory of the region and is calling on all state servants and citizens to fulfill decisions and orders signed by Kolodiy, the document says.

The document reiterates that the main function of the executive committee is to maintain law and order in the region and help send activists to Kyiv and provide the Maidan activists with everything they need.

"The lawfully elected local councils and the executive committees created by them remain the legitimate authorities in the Lviv region. The majority of the district police departments have already announced their decision to take the side of the people of Ukraine and report to the executive committee of the Lviv region's council," the statement says.

Weeeeeee! We're going for a ride!

[cosmicalstorm]

Looks like a good year for civil wars.

[Thanas]

The German ARD Correspondent reports that apparently paratroopers have been dispatched to Kiev.
Meanwhile, according to Kiew police, they are not shooting at protestors. The Protestors are shooting at each other.

https://twitter.com/GolinehAtai

(pretty good twitter feed in General)

In Soviet Ukraine, your weapon shoots you.


EDIT: The better livestream is back up:
http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/liv ... ei100.html

[Elfdart]

Are these the same "protesters" that held a torchlight procession in honor of Bandera?

[Prannon]

This is breaking even now on the BBC. Not many details at the moment.

Ukraine President Yanukovych sacks army chief amid crisis

Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has sacked the head of the armed forces, Col Gen Volodymyr Zamana, according to the president's website.

The move comes after the most intense violence in the country's three-month crisis, turning Kiev into a battle zone.

Earlier the state security service announced it was launching a nationwide "anti-terrorist" campaign, to deal with a growing "extremist threat".

There was a suggestion the armed forces could be deployed for the first time.

[Koolaidkirby]

This is breaking even now on the BBC. Not many details at the moment.

Ukraine President Yanukovych sacks army chief amid crisis

Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has sacked the head of the armed forces, Col Gen Volodymyr Zamana, according to the president's website.

The move comes after the most intense violence in the country's three-month crisis, turning Kiev into a battle zone.

Earlier the state security service announced it was launching a nationwide "anti-terrorist" campaign, to deal with a growing "extremist threat".

There was a suggestion the armed forces could be deployed for the first time.

sounds like he refused to send in troops so Yanukovych found someone who would.

[Irbis]

sounds like he refused to send in troops so Yanukovych found someone who would.

The issue here is not who will send them but if they will listen. In most countries troops are more nationalistic than average of general populace, no one will give any orders until they are 100% soldiers will follow them.

[Kinyo]

Link

Ukraine President Viktor Yanukovych says he has agreed a truce with opposition leaders, after at least 26 people died in protests this week.

A statement on the presidential website said they had agreed to start "negotiations" aimed at ending the bloodshed of the last two days.

They also agreed to try to stabilise "the situation in the state in the interests of social peace".

Earlier today, the president sacked the head of the armed forces.

No reason was given for the dismissal of Col Gen Volodymyr Zamana, who was replaced by the commander of Ukraine's navy, Admiral Yuriy Ilyin, by presidential decree.

The announcement of a truce comes after the most intense violence in Ukraine's three-month crisis turned Kiev into a battle zone between anti-government protesters and riot police.

The protests began in late November, when President Yanukovych rejected a landmark association and trade deal with the EU in favour of closer ties with Russia.

Since then, a militant protest movement has gripped the capital intent on seeing him ousted from power.

'Protection of human life'
On Tuesday, protesters wielding petrol bombs and paving stones tried to defend their encampment in the central Independence Square from police using rubber bullets and stun grenades.

While the situation was more subdued on Wednesday, there were still periodic clashes and protesters are reported to have seized the central post office in Kiev.

Fires also continued to burn around Independence Square, with demonstrators and riot police locked in a tense stand-off.

The truce followed talks between President Yanukovych and the three main opposition leaders, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, boxer-turned-politician Vitali Klitschko and far-right party leader Oleh Tyahnybok.

The statement did not give details of what the truce would entail or how it would be implemented.

"The storming of the Maidan (Independence Square) which the authorities had planned today will not take place," Mr Yatsenyuk said in a statement on the website of his Fatherland party.

"A truce has been declared. The main thing is to protect human life," he added.

But a BBC correspondent in Kiev, Daniel Sandford, has urged caution, pointing out that none of the hardcore protesters attended the meeting with President Yanukovych in which the truce was discussed.

Several European leaders have condemned the Ukrainian leadership for the violence, with the French, German and Polish foreign ministers due to meet in Kiev on Thursday to assess the situation before an EU meeting in Brussels to decide whether to impose sanctions against Ukraine.

Apparently some kind of truce has been agreed.

[fgalkin]

The German ARD Correspondent reports that apparently paratroopers have been dispatched to Kiev.
Meanwhile, according to Kiew police, they are not shooting at protestors. The Protestors are shooting at each other.

https://twitter.com/GolinehAtai

(pretty good twitter feed in General)

In Soviet Ukraine, your weapon shoots you.


EDIT: The better livestream is back up:
http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/liv ... ei100.html

Actually, there have been reports of far-right groups beating, and, occasionally, killing left wing activists, so this may not be as far fetched as you think.

Also, recall that the protestors now have access to guns and ammo. Like, in Ivano-Frankivsk, where they stormed the local SBU building and made off with hundreds of handguns, some light machineguns, 92 hand grenades, and 15 thousand rounds of ammo.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The German ARD Correspondent reports that apparently paratroopers have been dispatched to Kiev.
Meanwhile, according to Kiew police, they are not shooting at protestors. The Protestors are shooting at each other.

https://twitter.com/GolinehAtai

(pretty good twitter feed in General)

In Soviet Ukraine, your weapon shoots you.


EDIT: The better livestream is back up:
http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/liv ... ei100.html

Actually, there have been reports of far-right groups beating, and, occasionally, killing left wing activists, so this may not be as far fetched as you think.

Also, recall that the protestors now have access to guns and ammo. Like, in Ivano-Frankivsk, where they stormed the local SBU building and made off with hundreds of handguns, some light machineguns, 92 hand grenades, and 15 thousand rounds of ammo.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

It was reported in the NYT, surprisingly. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/20/world ... ne.html?hp

In Lviv, a city near the border with Poland, what had been a peaceful blockade of a sprawling compound housing barracks and the Interior Ministry’s western command turned early Wednesday into the seizure of a major military installation.

Andriy Porodko, 29, a businessman who had commanded the earlier blockade, said the “soldiers all surrendered” without a fight and had allowed protesters to take control of the compound, including an armory full of weapons. Ihor Pochinok, the editor in chief of a Lviv newspaper, Ekspres, said the city was bubbling with fury at the assault Tuesday on Independence Square but “was functioning normally, except for state authorities.”

Protesters, he said, had also stormed the offices of the regional governor, a Yanukovych appointee, resuming an occupation that had ended just three days earlier, and raided the local headquarters of the state prosecutor, the state security service and several district police stations. Around 140 guns were seized from a police armory.

Beyond Lviv, antigovernment activists besieged or seized police stations and administrative buildings in Uzhgorod, Lutsk, Khmelnitsky and Poltava.

In Lutsk, northwestern Ukraine, protesters attacked the regional police department, which responded with stun grenades and other fire. The building was then set on fire by protesters throwing gasoline bombs.

[loomer]

Actually, there have been reports of far-right groups beating, and, occasionally, killing left wing activists, so this may not be as far fetched as you think.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Hell, haven't there even been rumours/reports of some of the Berkut guys going into hospitals and abducting any leftist protestors being treated there?

[Pelranius]

This is breaking even now on the BBC. Not many details at the moment.

Ukraine President Yanukovych sacks army chief amid crisis

Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has sacked the head of the armed forces, Col Gen Volodymyr Zamana, according to the president's website.

The move comes after the most intense violence in the country's three-month crisis, turning Kiev into a battle zone.

Earlier the state security service announced it was launching a nationwide "anti-terrorist" campaign, to deal with a growing "extremist threat".

There was a suggestion the armed forces could be deployed for the first time.

In fairness, Yanukovych could have removed Zamana because he was afraid of the latter trying to make a power grab.

The replacement, an admiral (forgot his name), is about the last person I'd want to be in charge of the military when starting a national crackdown on protestors (even if the Navy is possibly more Russophilic than the average Ukrainian) but inconveniencing military leadership cohesion by placing a relative outsider to the Army would make a coup less likely.