The Economics of Star Trek: The proto-post-scarcity economy

[Steve]

Unrelated, but the "economic" aspects got me thinking....

We always heard about the E-D being Starfleet's "flagship" despite the fact that it was almost always either exploring, making deliveries or patrolling the border. Very rarely do you ever see it as part of any fleet and there is no Admiral aboard, so it's kinda stupid to label it as such.

But what if they meant it in more of a retail context rather than a military one? You now, like how the Civic is Honda's flagship car model? In this context calling the E-D the federation flagship makes sense- its the ship that Starfleet sends to show off to its neighbours, rather than the conduct fleet actions.

I always saw the use of the term "flagship of Starfleet" to not mean a literal flagship but rather to denote that the Enterprise was such a legend in Starfleet that it was considered the lead ship of the entire service, which is confirmed in the shows and materials of the setting.

[Borgholio]

A flagship, traditionally means the lead ship of a fleet where a flag officer is located. It can also mean, like in the auto industry, the lead model of car sold by that company. In TNG, the Enterprise is typically used as a representative of the technological level of the Federation and to maintain a presence, which is also the function of a representative flagship.

[Scottish Ninja]

And that makes perfect sense in the context of what Starfleet is and what they do.

Slate has an article with a slightly different perspective on the money issue:

The Star Trek Economy: (Mostly) Post-Scarcity (Mostly) Socialism
By Matthew Yglesias

I greatly enjoyed Rick Webb's efforts to piece together how the 24th century economy of the United Federation of Planets works, but I don't think he has it quite right. Dual hatted as Moneybox columnist and Star Trek completist author, I want to delve into this a bit. Webb is essentially struggling to understand how to meld the apparently post-scarcity, post-currency, socialistic economy with the concrete reality that on various occasions you do see what appear to be small business owners:

There is absolutely, obviously, still private property in the Federation: most obviously Joseph Sisko’s restaurant in New Orleans and Chateau Picard, evidencing that not just small possessions are allowed but that the land itself is still privately owned. One could argue that these aren’t really Sisko and Picard’s to own, but they are routinely referred to as “his” restaurant and vineyard so we gotta go with Occam’s Razor here and assume they do, in fact, own them.
It's important to pay attention to the specificity of these cases. Chateau Picard is essentially a heritage vineyard, deliberately eschewing modern production techniques to deliver the authentic French wine experience. The same is true, in a more down-home way, of Sisko's restaurant in New Orleans. If you think about the modern economy, highly efficient highly rationalized food service firms (Olive Garden or TGI Friday's) exist along side organic locally-sourced farm-to-table operations.
The central conceit of Trek is that technology gets better and better, so things that are mass produced and rationalized get cheaper and more abundant. So there's a post-scarcity economy where anyone can replicate any kind of consumer goods he wants. Webb sees a welfare state, but I actually see something different. It's simply that energy is abundant enough that people have unrestricted access to consumer-grade replicators. Under the circumstances nobody needs to work to survive and there's really no point in maintaining a cash economy. But by definition improved technology can't increase the efficiency of historical production techniques. If the promise of Sisko's is a home-cooked New Orleans meal, then Sisko's can't partake in the post-scarcity economy. Similarly, you can replicate wine in unlimited quantities but a Chateau Picard vintage is by definition a scarce commodity. People appear to operate these businesses for roughly the same reason that Starfleet officers cruise around the galaxy—for a sense of personal fulfillment rather than enrichment. The Federation has clearly acted so as to prevent the existence of any kind of meaningful banking system, and though various mediums of exchange seem to be floating around there isn't enough stuff for sale for people to really focus on it as an issue.

So what do the producers of scarce goods do? Well, presumably they're giving a lot of stuff away. Friends and family get bottles of wine. Perhaps you send a case or two to some particularly admired athletes or scientists or other heroes. Maybe artisanal wine just isn't that popular in general. And maybe you barter some bottles for other artisanal goods. Maybe you have a friend who hand-carves furniture. But at its most fundamental level, it's a gift economy. The point of running your restaurant or your vineyard is essentially to show off your mastery, not accumulate wealth. There may be some more-or-less formal exchanges, but the key point is to get the output into people's hands and not work so hard as to make yourself miserable.
We can imagine that Federation Credits exist primarily to let people consume government-provided by scarce resources. Housing, interstellar transportation, child and elder care, energy-intensive capital goods for your hobby/business. This is not a currency per se. It exists to ensure that there isn't wild overconsumption of goods that are nevertheless intended to be generally available. The Federation probably also uses them to facilitate transactions with other cultures. A non-Federation individual or organization who performs some useful service gets "Credits" entitling him to claim Federation energy or logistical services in the future. Despite official propaganda to the contrary, these credits do circulate as a kind of money in private society. But given the absence of banking, the uselessness of credits for obtaining consumer goods, social stigmatization of wealth accumulation, and the fact that it would generally be considered insulting to offer someone money in exchange for labor (just as today you can pay someone money for sex, but you'd be very careful before making the offer even in places where it's perfectly legal) it's not generally circulating in this way.

I tend to agree with this a little more - take housing, for example. While I expect that on Earth there's no one homeless (who doesn't want to be), there's a limited supply of, for example, apartments in Paris with a view of the Eiffel Tower, and you can also imagine that there's somewhat of a greater demand for such apartments than living in a housing tract in the suburbs of Omaha. So how do you determine fairly who gets to live in Paris and who has to live in Omaha? It seems perfectly reasonable to me that you let the market handle it - let people decide what the relative value is to them and how much of their "credit" to consume scarce resources they're willing to trade for it. This has little impact on their objective standard of living - buying an apartment in Paris doesn't affect their access to food, clothing, education, etc., but it can be meaningful to some people. What's a good way to earn credits? Work one of the crappy jobs - managing sewers, operating a power plant, or a factory, mining dilithium, whatever. In Star Trek these won't be backbreaking or dirty jobs - not usually anyway, but I imagine for most people they'd be... personally unfulfilling. But the tradeoff there is you get to go home and look at the Eiffel Tower from your balcony at night.

[biostem]

Truth be told, I would really love to see a Star Trek series that dealt with people that wanted or had to live outside of the Federation "utopia". To get to see what's involved in, for instance, obtaining and operating your own warp-capable vessel would be quite interesting.

For instance, what if I and a group of like-minded people decided to start building our own starship? Would the Federation step in and try to stop us? Would they use force to do so?

Heck, even thinking on a smaller scale - what if I wanted to open a holo-suite somewhere? Would I have to apply for the right to be able to do so? Would I have to requisition engineers to do so? What if I just wanted to turn my bedroom into a private holodeck? Is that something that's allowed?

[FaxModem1]

Truth be told, I would really love to see a Star Trek series that dealt with people that wanted or had to live outside of the Federation "utopia". To get to see what's involved in, for instance, obtaining and operating your own warp-capable vessel would be quite interesting.

For instance, what if I and a group of like-minded people decided to start building our own starship? Would the Federation step in and try to stop us? Would they use force to do so?

Heck, even thinking on a smaller scale - what if I wanted to open a holo-suite somewhere? Would I have to apply for the right to be able to do so? Would I have to requisition engineers to do so? What if I just wanted to turn my bedroom into a private holodeck? Is that something that's allowed?

Kasidy Yates didn't seem to be arrested for the sole purpose of owning a ship.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Truth be told, I would really love to see a Star Trek series that dealt with people that wanted or had to live outside of the Federation "utopia". To get to see what's involved in, for instance, obtaining and operating your own warp-capable vessel would be quite interesting.

For instance, what if I and a group of like-minded people decided to start building our own starship? Would the Federation step in and try to stop us? Would they use force to do so?

Heck, even thinking on a smaller scale - what if I wanted to open a holo-suite somewhere? Would I have to apply for the right to be able to do so? Would I have to requisition engineers to do so? What if I just wanted to turn my bedroom into a private holodeck? Is that something that's allowed?

Why would the UFP get involved in any of that?

If I want to buy a fishing boat right now, I might need a licence to "drive" it, but I don't get permission from the UN if I want to open a night club or buy a hover-craft or whatever.

You seem to be suggesting - or at least that's how I'm reading it - that life is somehow "difficult" or "made difficult" if you're not a member of Star Fleet or something? I see no evidence of that anywhere.

[WATCH-MAN]

For instance, what if I and a group of like-minded people decided to start building our own starship? Would the Federation step in and try to stop us? Would they use force to do so?

What would happen today if you and a group of like-minded people decided to start building your own nuclear-powered ship or your own nuclear-powered air-craft? Do you think that the government of your nation would step in and try to stop you? Do you think they would use force to do so?

Heck, even thinking on a smaller scale - what if I wanted to open a holo-suite somewhere? Would I have to apply for the right to be able to do so?

To need a licence to operate a bar or restaurant or similar establishment is not unusual in some nations. This limitation to the economic freedom usually is justified with consumer protection.

Would I have to requisition engineers to do so?

To have qualified personal to do some work is - again - not unusual in some nations - especially if unqualified done work can be dangerous to others. And it is not unusual that more complex installations have to be controlled by official controllers (e.g. TÜV, Dekra, LBA, FAA, NNSA) before they are activated.

What if I just wanted to turn my bedroom into a private holodeck? Is that something that's allowed?

That depends on how potential dangerous a holodeck is considered to be and if permission and monitoring (of the device and its operator) is deemed necessary.

[biostem]

I suppose my main points were thus:

1. Let's assume that the group of people in question *are* qualified in the necessary fields to construct a starship - so concerns over mishandling the equipment or poor workmanship aren't a factor.

2. Does the Federation basically claim unlimited enforcement rights in any area they consider their "space"? If said group of people decided, after careful observation, to build a colony on a large asteroid w/ a stable orbit, would they be permitted, or would there be some sort of claim process or review board they have to apply to?

3. The problem is, if we're following the current-day analogies, what is considered "coastal waters" and what is considered "international waters" for purposes of enforcement?

Cassidy Yates, AFAIK, operated in Federation space only part of the time, and also operated in the Bad Lands and/or contested territory. The Federation seemed interested in her activities in territory they didn't control. If a group of enterprising individuals, (no pun intended), wanted to construct a facility outside of federation space, AND try to advertise that they were looking for people to join them, would the Federation interfere? What if they wanted to conduct genetic engineering and other such controversial research that the Federation prohibited? Now imagine if Cassidy Yates was contracted to transport equipment to this facility, and it either originated in or crossed Federation space? Even if the equipment wasn't illegal, would the Feds still interfere or blockade them?

[FaxModem1]

Cassidy Yates, AFAIK, operated in Federation space only part of the time, and also operated in the Bad Lands and/or contested territory. The Federation seemed interested in her activities in territory they didn't control. If a group of enterprising individuals, (no pun intended), wanted to construct a facility outside of federation space, AND try to advertise that they were looking for people to join them, would the Federation interfere? What if they wanted to conduct genetic engineering and other such controversial research that the Federation prohibited? Now imagine if Cassidy Yates was contracted to transport equipment to this facility, and it either originated in or crossed Federation space? Even if the equipment wasn't illegal, would the Feds still interfere or blockade them?

Kasidy Yates is a Federation citizen. And financing and supporting terrorists as a citizen, whether in your country or not, is a crime in a lot of countries.

[WATCH-MAN]

Let's assume that the group of people in question *are* qualified in the necessary fields to construct a starship - so concerns over mishandling the equipment or poor workmanship aren't a factor.

Who decides that "the group of people in question *are* qualified in the necessary fields to construct a starship"?

The group of people or the government? Can everyone claim to be qualified enough to do whatever one wants to do?

And even if the necessary qualification is confirmed - do you really think that this is enough?

Should everyone who is qualified enough to do it be permited to build nuclear-powered ships or nuclear-powered air-crafts?

I think it isn't so much a question if they should be allowed to build such vehicle. It is more a question if they should be allowed to have acces to a vehicle that can be modified to be a WMD.

Today you need a permission to be allowed to drive a car. To get such is easy - as a car isn't very dangerous.

You need a permission to be allowed to fly an aircraft. To get such is more difficult - as an aircraft is considerd to be more dangerous. And the bigger the aircrft gets, the more difficult it becomes to get the neccesary permision.

What do you think will be necessary to get a permission to be allowed to fly a nuclear-powered air-craft?

And what do you think will be necessary to get permission to be allowed to fly a matter-anti-matter annihilation powered star ship?

Does the Federation basically claim unlimited enforcement rights in any area they consider their "space"? If said group of people decided, after careful observation, to build a colony on a large asteroid w/ a stable orbit, would they be permitted, or would there be some sort of claim process or review board they have to apply to?

The problem is, if we're following the current-day analogies, what is considered "coastal waters" and what is considered "international waters" for purposes of enforcement?

We do not know - and - AFAIK - don't have much information to speculate with on interstellar law.

If a group of enterprising individuals, (no pun intended), wanted to construct a facility outside of federation space, AND [...] wanted to conduct genetic engineering and other such controversial research that the Federation prohibited?

How is it today? Would your nation allow it that a scientist goes on an island in the ocean to conduct prohibited research? Would it allow that people are leaving your nation to go on an island only because there is no law-enforcement so that they can do what is prohibited in their nation (e.g.: sex with children).

Today the right to secession is highly disputed.

[Prometheus Unbound]

I suppose my main points were thus:

1. Let's assume that the group of people in question *are* qualified in the necessary fields to construct a starship - so concerns over mishandling the equipment or poor workmanship aren't a factor.

2. Does the Federation basically claim unlimited enforcement rights in any area they consider their "space"? If said group of people decided, after careful observation, to build a colony on a large asteroid w/ a stable orbit, would they be permitted, or would there be some sort of claim process or review board they have to apply to?

3. The problem is, if we're following the current-day analogies, what is considered "coastal waters" and what is considered "international waters" for purposes of enforcement?

Cassidy Yates, AFAIK, operated in Federation space only part of the time, and also operated in the Bad Lands and/or contested territory. The Federation seemed interested in her activities in territory they didn't control. If a group of enterprising individuals, (no pun intended), wanted to construct a facility outside of federation space, AND try to advertise that they were looking for people to join them, would the Federation interfere? What if they wanted to conduct genetic engineering and other such controversial research that the Federation prohibited? Now imagine if Cassidy Yates was contracted to transport equipment to this facility, and it either originated in or crossed Federation space? Even if the equipment wasn't illegal, would the Feds still interfere or blockade them?

does the UN blockade places like North Korea? It's common sense, dude. What is the point of your questions?

The UFP is not some over-arching evil empire that wants to spy on every individual, making sure everyone MUST OBEY, MUST OBEY like some sort of demented anti-Dalek.