Fred Phelps Is Dying

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Scrib
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Scrib »

mr friendly guy wrote:TYT did a short piece on him.

Apparently in his younger days Phelps seemed reasonably progressive. That is he was secular (albeit maybe excessive in his interpretation)* and defended African Americans in the civil rights era. What the hell went wrong?

* he protested against Reagan's having an ambassador to the Vatican, which is a weak argument as the Vatican is also a state as well as a church.
Well, according to TYT he snapped or went crazy. I actually disliked the piece because of that. I find implying such things distasteful.

As for the progressivism: there is not necessarily an immediate conflict between helping blacks and thinking that "god hates fags".I'd really like to know how he treated them after the WBC started their war,he seemed to be far more focused on the gays. Hell, some conversatives might grant you the problems of the civil rights era and still have a problem with modern african americans.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by General Mung Beans »

mr friendly guy wrote:TYT did a short piece on him.

Apparently in his younger days Phelps seemed reasonably progressive. That is he was secular (albeit maybe excessive in his interpretation)* and defended African Americans in the civil rights era. What the hell went wrong?

* he protested against Reagan's having an ambassador to the Vatican, which is a weak argument as the Vatican is also a state as well as a church.
Well some Fred's actions have been rather odd, even though it seems as if his theology has been the same throughout his adult life. For example he's still a registered Democrat and actually campaigned for Al Gore in the late '80s and early '90s (there's a picture of his son with Gore floating around on the Web).

OTOH, opposing an ambassador to the Vatican has been a common position for anti-Catholic Protestants.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by FSTargetDrone »

The best thing you can do when he dies is to simply forget about him. Spend your energies and efforts elsewhere. He is simply not worth thinking about now or ever again.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Alferd Packer »

Well, you can start forgetting him now.
TOPEKA, Kan. - Controversial pastor Fred Phelps Sr., had died, according to multiple reports. He was 84.

Kansas First News, the NBC affiliate in Topeka, and CBS affiliate WIBW both confirmed the report with Timothy Phelps, his son. Jonathon Phelps, another son who is a member of the church, told WIBW that his father "is doing just fine."

This morning Timothy Phelps Says Father died Jonathan Phelps says PAstor Phelps is fine and hung up the phone http://t.co/rj1QchsdU0

— wibw (@wibw) March 20, 2014
Phelps founded Westboro Baptist Church, which is widely known for its protests at military funerals and anti-gay sentiments.

It was announced last week by church spokesman Steve Drain that Phelps was being cared for in a Shawnee County facility.

Nate Phelps, an estranged son of Phelps, said in an email to The Topeka Capital-Journal last week that members of Westboro had voted Phelps out of the church. Shirley Phelps-Roper also confirmed with the paper of her father’s passing.

Daughter Margie Phelps says Fred Phelps died shortly after midnight Thursday. She didn't give the cause of death or the condition that recently put him in hospice care.

Nate, who broke away from the church 37 years ago, told the newspaper that church members became concerned after the vote that his father might harm himself and moved him out of the church, where he and his wife had lived for years. Fred Phelps was moved into a house, where he “basically stopped eating and drinking,” Nate Phelps said.

Drain declined comment on whether Fred Phelps had been voted out of the church. Drain said Westboro Baptist Church doesn’t have a designated leader.

“We don’t discuss our internal church dealings with anybody,” Drain told the newspaper.

Members of the Westboro church, based in Topeka, frequently protest at funerals of soldiers with signs containing messages such as “Thank God for dead soldiers,” and “Thank God for 9/11,” claiming the deaths are God’s punishment for American immorality and tolerance of homosexuality and abortion.

Westboro Baptist, a small group made mostly of Phelps’ extended family, inspired a federal law and laws in numerous states limiting picketing at funerals. But in a major free-speech ruling in 2011, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the church and its members couldn’t be sued for monetary damages for inflicting pain on grieving families under the First Amendment.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil-rights nonprofit group, has called Westboro Baptist Church a hate group.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Kitsune »

How about we get a group of Satanists to turn him gay :twisted:
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by General Zod »

Kitsune wrote:How about we get a group of Satanists to turn him gay :twisted:
That's mind numbingly stupid on multiple levels.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Borgholio »

Not that I condone such a thing (no really, I don't), how long until someone decides to vandalize his grave (assuming he has one)?
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

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Literally ten seconds after his death. But this is why he won't have one.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Kitsune »

General Zod wrote:
Kitsune wrote:How about we get a group of Satanists to turn him gay :twisted:
That's mind numbingly stupid on multiple levels.
There is this thing that you might have heard of called a sense of humor.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by General Zod »

Kitsune wrote:
General Zod wrote:
Kitsune wrote:How about we get a group of Satanists to turn him gay :twisted:
That's mind numbingly stupid on multiple levels.
There is this thing that you might have heard of called a sense of humor.
I highly advise going to find one so you can tell jokes that aren't terrible.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Elheru Aran »

General Zod wrote:
Kitsune wrote:
General Zod wrote:
That's mind numbingly stupid on multiple levels.
There is this thing that you might have heard of called a sense of humor.
I highly advise going to find one so you can tell jokes that aren't terrible.
Considering the theory that he may have been deep within the closet and the whole movement he started in his church came out of self-hatred, it might be a unnecessary gesture anyway.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Ralin »

Borgholio wrote:Not that I condone such a thing (no really, I don't), how long until someone decides to vandalize his grave (assuming he has one)?
Who's going to bury him? He got kicked out of the church a week ago, and besides he has to have considered that possibility at some point.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by fnord »

This might be relevant:

Fred Phelps dies at 84; Westboro Baptist's preacher of hate
LA Times wrote: Fred Phelps dies at 84; Westboro Baptist's preacher of hate
A disbarred lawyer, Fred Phelps led a small Kansas church that picketed military and celebrity funerals, preaching a doctrine of divine retribution against gays.

By Steve Chawkins
March 20, 2014, 9:25 a.m.

Fred Phelps, a publicity-hungry Kansas pastor who picketed hundreds of military funerals because he believed America was too sympathetic to gays, died early Thursday in Topeka, Kan. He was 84.

His daughter, Margie Phelps, confirmed his death to the Associated Press but did not give the cause.

With his small Topeka congregation, Phelps also demonstrated at funerals and memorials for Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson, former Mormon leader Gordon B. Hinckley and heavy metal singer Ronnie James Dio — any observance, regardless of any connection to gay issues, where cameras might be rolling.

Convinced that the deaths of U.S. soldiers were divine retribution for the nation's increasing acceptance of homosexuality, Phelps and his followers carried signs like: "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Hates the USA/Thank God for 9/11." A disbarred attorney, Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church were sued numerous times but won a landmark freedom of speech case in the U.S. Supreme Court.

Despite its name, his church is unaffiliated with any denomination. Its Web address, more reflective of its founder's theology, contains an anti-gay slur. The congregation is heavily composed of his relatives, including many of his 13 children and 54 grandchildren.

Two of his estranged sons, Nate and Mark, have said that Phelps' clan "excommunicated" him last year. The church declined to comment.

Phelps came to national attention in 1998 leading anti-gay pickets at the Casper, Wyo., funeral of Matthew Shepard, a gay 21-year-old who had been lashed to a fence post and beaten to death. Five years after the funeral, Phelps returned to Casper with plans to erect a granite monument inscribed: "Matthew Shepard Entered Hell Oct. 12, 1998."

Phelps was denounced by many conservative Christian leaders, including the Rev. Jerry Falwell, who called him a "hatemonger" and "emotionally unbalanced."

Phelps jubilantly acknowledged spreading the message of hate.

"He's saying I preach hate? You can't preach the Bible without preaching hate!" Phelps told The Times in 1999.

"Looky here, the hatred of God is an attribute of the Almighty," he said. "It means he's determined to punish the wicked for their sins!"

An attorney for many years, Phelps handled civil rights cases in Kansas and elsewhere in the Midwest. In Topeka, he worked on behalf of black students claiming school discrimination and black bar patrons who accused police of abusive tactics during a 1979 drug raid. In 1987, he was honored by the Bonner Springs, Kan., branch of the NAACP for his "steely determination for justice during his tenure as a civil rights attorney."

Privately, however, he was intensely prejudiced against African Americans, his estranged son Nate Phelps told the Telegraph, a British newspaper, in 2013. When Coretta Scott King died in 2006, Phelps picketed her funeral, condemning civil rights leaders for "giving away the movement" to homosexuals.

Phelps' funeral protests were intensely contested in court. In 2006, Phelps and six of his followers picketed a funeral for Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, a Marine killed in Iraq. Considering the case in 2011, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that such demonstrations, no matter how odious, were legal as long as protesters obeyed state and local laws setting a minimum distance between themselves and mourners.

In his dissenting opinion, Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. wrote that the nation's commitment to free speech is not a license for "vicious verbal assault."

Eleven of Phelps' children are said to be attorneys, including Margie Phelps, who represented the church before the Supreme Court.

Born in Meridian, Miss., on Nov. 13, 1929, Phelps was the son of a railroad detective. An Eagle Scout, he was bound for the U.S. Military Academy at West Point when he attended a revival meeting and felt a calling to preach. In 1947, he was ordained a Southern Baptist minister.

He graduated from John Muir College in Pasadena, a forerunner of Pasadena City College, where he led a 1951 campaign against "promiscuous petting" and "evil language." He also attended Arizona Bible Institute, where he met his wife, Margie Simms, whom he married in 1952.

In 1964, he received a law degree from Washburn University in Topeka. He was disbarred by Kansas in 1979 after suing a court reporter, bullying her on the witness stand and calling her a "slut." Ten years later, after federal judges complained that he had made false accusations against them, he agreed to stop practicing in federal courts.

For Phelps and his followers, public condemnation by powerful opponents was a healthy sign; it proved that the voices of Westboro Baptist Church were the only righteous ones in a world clamoring with sinners.

When the BBC released a 2007 documentary about the Phelps clan called "The Most Hated Family in America," Fred's daughter Shirley saw only one failing, according to the Telegraph: "She wished it had been called 'The Most Hated Family in the World.' "

steve.chawkins@latimes.com
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by StarSword »

It always occurs to me that this particular variety of assfuck pays too much attention to the Old Testament and not enough to the New. People like the WBC give actual Christians a bad name.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by General Zod »

On the other hand, this is hilarious. (Too soon?)

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by blahface »

Scrib wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:TYT did a short piece on him.

Apparently in his younger days Phelps seemed reasonably progressive. That is he was secular (albeit maybe excessive in his interpretation)* and defended African Americans in the civil rights era. What the hell went wrong?

* he protested against Reagan's having an ambassador to the Vatican, which is a weak argument as the Vatican is also a state as well as a church.
Well, according to TYT he snapped or went crazy. I actually disliked the piece because of that. I find implying such things distasteful.

As for the progressivism: there is not necessarily an immediate conflict between helping blacks and thinking that "god hates fags".I'd really like to know how he treated them after the WBC started their war,he seemed to be far more focused on the gays. Hell, some conversatives might grant you the problems of the civil rights era and still have a problem with modern african americans.
I remember Nate saying in an interview that he was racist, but got into the civil rights movement because it was a niche market that he could get into because not many other lawyers would touche it. I may be wrong and misremembering, but I also think I remember Nate saying that it was the only work he could do after getting disbarred. Nate and his siblings also had to sell chocolate bars to provide income for the family. He was pretty much desperate for money.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Mr. Coffee »

General Zod wrote:On the other hand, this is hilarious. (Too soon?)
It's never to soon, bro. Stay classy, Zodster.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

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^WTF is that?
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Scrib »

StarSword wrote:^WTF is that?
A Cenobite from Hellraiser.

I for one am amused by this Christian (or atheists manipulating Christian images) civil war. Yeah, because God would balk at Fred Phelps. It's fascinating how this sort of thing happens, a few years of social pressure and oh, it's obvious that God hates fag-haters.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Elfdart »

mr friendly guy wrote:TYT did a short piece on him.

Apparently in his younger days Phelps seemed reasonably progressive. That is he was secular (albeit maybe excessive in his interpretation)* and defended African Americans in the civil rights era. What the hell went wrong?

* he protested against Reagan's having an ambassador to the Vatican, which is a weak argument as the Vatican is also a state as well as a church.
Apparently he got off on offending the sensibilities of polite society.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Kitsune »

Actually the response is pretty classy
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"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by StarSword »

Amazing how well they managed to convey the sarcasm.
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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying

Post by Mr. Coffee »

StarSword wrote:^WTF is that?
Boy, how the hell did you manage to grow up in the US and not see the first two Hellraiser movies? Next you'll say you have no idea who Freddy Kruger, Jason Vorheese, and Chucky are. I swear, kids these days have no appreciation of culture.
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