The Scorpion and S8472 thread

[FaxModem1]

I asked that the Species 8472/Undine discussion not drag the best of Voyager thread. So, to discuss it, let's do it here.

So, should Janeway have sided with the Borg in the Borg/S8472 war, or should they have sat on the sidelines? Or some option in-between?

[Borgholio]

Sidelines. Get through Borg space A.S.A.F.P. Although it has been implied that 8472 would try to cleanse the whole galaxy after they dealt with the Borg, there's no hard evidence to prove that would actually be the case. Allying with the Borg only guaranteed that non-Borg races would be perceived as a threat. If 8472 exterminated the Borg and then went home, that would end up saving countless billions of lives that would otherwise be killed or assimilated.

With that said, what if 8472 WAS going on a genocidal rampage after the Borg were defeated? Well, we know there are some species that were watching the war very closely. The species that introduced the Quantum Slipstream Drive to the show was counting on the Borg losing, and they believed they could handle 8472.

So yeah, I think Voyager should have just kept going and let the Borg die.

[StarSword]

Staying on the sidelines or even trying to ally with the Undine are actually Janeway's only options. Allying with the Borg shouldn't have even been on the table.

Not only does helping the Borg meet the legal definition of "aiding the enemy" (a crime just short of treason and which carries the death penalty in the military upon which Starfleet bases most of its operations), it also violates Starfleet's standing orders regarding the Borg (Adm. Nechayev in "Descent"), and makes Janeway an accessory to genocide against a neutral power (a war crime).

And lest we forget, she committed the above crimes after a single solitary encounter with an Undine who had been left behind and alone on a derelict cube and probably lashed out in fear, and allied with the Borg on the word of one psychic who didn't even have control over her powers. Hardly conclusive evidence, wouldn't you say?

Janeway deserved to be shot for her actions in "Scorpion", and her promotion just proves what we already knew: Starfleet's military justice system is as incompetent as their tacticians and workplace safety people.

[StarSword]

Side comment: Now that STO's in the Delta Quadrant with a path to the outside, I have an idea for a Foundry mission where you find out the BS that Janeway got up to and get her relieved of command and prosecuted for "Scorpion" and all the various other crap she pulled.

[Lord Revan]

Side comment: Now that STO's in the Delta Quadrant with a path to the outside, I have an idea for a Foundry mission where you find out the BS that Janeway got up to and get her relieved of command and prosecuted for "Scorpion" and all the various other crap she pulled.

well it's implied that she still commands the Voyager in STO, so it would be nice piece of irony that she got bumped back to Captain when Starfleet Command heard of her actions, while my Andorian character is (practically) her old rank and is barely out of the academy.

[Prometheus Unbound]

I asked that the Species 8472/Undine discussion not drag the best of Voyager thread. So, to discuss it, let's do it here.

So, should Janeway have sided with the Borg in the Borg/S8472 war, or should they have sat on the sidelines? Or some option in-between?

At the time: I'd have avoided it entirely.

In hindsight: I'd have sided with the Borg.

[PREDATOR490]

Voyager should not have interfered - It is completely that simple.

The bullshit premise of Voyager being on a ticking clock to interfere is made up by Janeway to justify her actions any way she can. Chakotay specifically makes the point that Voyager can sit on the sidelines and watch how things progress. Something which we later realize is what OTHER races were doing.
Janeway consistently pushes the time element of 'we dont know if waiting could be bad' bullshit to justify her position of going RIGHT THE FUCK NOW... which is hilarious when you think about how many detours Voyager has taken. Janeway only cares about wasting time in the Delta Quadrant when it prevents Voyager sticking her nose into things.

To give Janeway more fairness than she actually deserves - The Federation has been turned into wimps due to being surrounded by powers that are equally gigantic posturing wimps. S8472 would naturally appear hilariously dangerous when they far more alien than usual with the ability to kick the shit out of the biggest enemy the Federation ever encountered from Voyager's perspective.

However, Janeway creates a false premise of choosing the lesser of two evils because if they dont... S8472 will wipe out all life in the galaxy.

If S8472 were genuine about wiping out life or not ultimately becomes irrelevant.
Janeway made a decision to interfere in an intergalactic conflict based on paper-thin intelligence while demonstrating a blatant disregard for the implications or consequences of her actions.
Janeway is providing the Borg with the means to assimilate S8472 which not only means genocide but actually means when the Borg WIN the conflict. They will have access to S8472 technology.
Result: Janeway just fucked the entire universe because she demonstrates a fantastic case of... I want to do X and fuck everything else that says otherwise.

Voyager had an obligation to do a bit more research into the situation before jumping to the extreme of allying with the Borg. For fuck sake, Janeway thinks she is the last line of defense in saving the galaxy from genocide... so she decides to carry the only means of defense straight up to a Borg planet so she can blackmail them into giving Voyager a lift ?
If the Borg had pushed the issue... she would delete it and S8472 wipe out the entire galaxy... ?
If the Borg stayed honest and let Voyager go... They get S8472 technology and quietly forget Voyager just blackmailed them ?

Even if Janeway believed the latter - S8472 have the ability to open rifts on command and blow up entire planets. S8472 could literally open up rifts elsewhere in the galaxy and nuke the crap out of everyone including the Federation with impunity because the only means of defense is being held by the Borg. So... Janeway basically ensured the enemy of the Federation and all life in the galaxy survived while everyone else is collectively fucked.

What Voyager should have done:
A) Gather more intelligence on S8472 and verify their intentions by checking to see if they are ACTUALLY killing other races or if they can be reasoned with. Its not like the Federation practices diplomacy or anything, right ?
B) Contacting some of the neighbours would be a no-brainer
C) Develop your own damn weapons against S8472 and make sure its spread around to prevent it getting lost
D) If your intent on trying to bullrush through Borg space... then do so quietly and only get involved when trouble comes knocking
E) If your actually being smart, sit on the sidelines and wait for both sides to weaken each other before getting involved
F) If your being really smart, blackmail the Borg into giving Voyager a Transwarp lift to Federation space

[Tsyroc]

And lest we forget, she committed the above crimes after a single solitary encounter with an Undine who had been left behind and alone on a derelict cube and probably lashed out in fear, and allied with the Borg on the word of one psychic who didn't even have control over her powers. Hardly conclusive evidence, wouldn't you say?

Janeway deserved to be shot for her actions in "Scorpion", and her promotion just proves what we already knew: Starfleet's military justice system is as incompetent as their tacticians and workplace safety people.

Wasn't that species supposed to be the only surviving species of it's own universe because it had out competed everything else? They might just assume that all species in the Trek universe are one. Even if that's not the case there are a lot of genetic ties to the various humanoid species throughout Trek, and on a basic level most of the being on Voyager do look a lot like the Borg. So they could just be mistaken. An injured combatant from another universe might not be fully up to speed on how things are in a universe that is quite a bit different from theirs.

In the later episode when they encounter the Undine working on how to infiltrate the Federation they sure seemed to be a lot more even minded species. Given that later evidence, and that it hasn't turned out to just be a ploy by the Undine, there's even more evidence that Janeway interfered in a war that could have wiped out the Borg.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Voyager should not have interfered - It is completely that simple.

The bullshit premise of Voyager being on a ticking clock to interfere is made up by Janeway to justify her actions any way she can. Chakotay specifically makes the point that Voyager can sit on the sidelines and watch how things progress. Something which we later realize realise is what OTHER races were doing.
Janeway consistently pushes the time element of 'we dont don't know if waiting could be bad' bullshit to justify her position of going RIGHT THE FUCK NOW... which is hilarious when you think about how many detours Voyager has taken. Janeway only cares about wasting time in the Delta Quadrant when it prevents Voyager sticking her nose into things.

To give Janeway more fairness than she actually deserves - The Federation has been turned into wimps due to being surrounded by powers that are equally gigantic posturing wimps. S8472 would naturally appear hilariously dangerous when they far more alien than usual with the ability to kick the shit out of the biggest enemy the Federation ever encountered from Voyager's perspective.

However, Janeway creates a false premise of choosing the lesser of two evils because if they dont don't ... S8472 will wipe out all life in the galaxy.

If S8472 were genuine about wiping out life or not ultimately becomes irrelevant.
Janeway made a decision to interfere in an intergalactic conflict based on paper-thin intelligence while whilst demonstrating a blatant disregard for the implications or consequences of her actions.
Janeway is providing the Borg with the means to assimilate S8472 which not only means genocide but actually means when the Borg WIN the conflict. They will have access to S8472 technology.
Result: Janeway just fucked the entire universe because she demonstrates a fantastic case of... I want to do X and fuck everything else that says otherwise.

Voyager had an obligation to do a bit more research into the situation before jumping to the extreme of allying with the Borg. For fuck sake, Janeway thinks she is the last line of defense in saving the galaxy from genocide... so she decides to carry the only means of defense straight up to a Borg planet so she can blackmail them into giving Voyager a lift ?
If the Borg had pushed the issue... she would delete it and S8472 wipe out the entire galaxy... ?
If the Borg stayed honest and let Voyager go... They get S8472 technology and quietly forget Voyager just blackmailed them ?

Even if Janeway believed the latter - S8472 have the ability to open rifts on command and blow up entire planets. S8472 could literally open up rifts elsewhere in the galaxy and nuke the crap out of everyone including the Federation with impunity because the only means of defense is being held by the Borg. So... Janeway basically ensured the enemy of the Federation and all life in the galaxy survived while everyone else is collectively fucked.

What Voyager should have done:
A) Gather more intelligence on S8472 and verify their intentions by checking to see if they are ACTUALLY killing other races or if they can be reasoned with. Its It's not like the Federation practices diplomacy or anything, right ?
B) Contacting some of the neighbours would be a no-brainer
C) Develop your own damn weapons against S8472 and make sure its spread around to prevent it getting lost
D) If your you're intent on trying to bullrush through Borg space... then do so quietly and only get involved when trouble comes knocking
E) If your you're actually being smart, sit on the sidelines and wait for both sides to weaken each other before getting involved
F) If your you're being really smart, blackmail the Borg into giving Voyager a Transwarp lift to Federation space

* You're.

[WATCH-MAN]

Not only does helping the Borg meet the legal definition of "aiding the enemy" (a crime just short of treason and which carries the death penalty in the military upon which Starfleet bases most of its operations) ...

You linked to a US law.

• • • • Any person who-
        (1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or
        (2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to, or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;
        shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct. This section does not apply to a military commission established under chapter 47A of this title

Other nations do not have such a law and the law in the future may be different.



Furthermore: Has Janeway given the Borg arms, ammunition, supplies, money or other things? Has Janeway tried to give the Borg arms, ammunition, supplies, money or other things?

AFAIK: No. The Borg didn't get any things from Voyager. And it wasn't planed that they get any things from Voyager. AKAIK it was only planed that they get informations about the modification of their nanoprobes.

• • • • • JANEWAY:
        In developing a treatment for Harry, the Doctor has found a way to attack the aliens at a microscopic level.
        
        • DOCTOR:
        It's still in the experimental stages, Captain.. I've only made a few prototypes.
        
        • JANEWAY:
        Nevertheless, if we teach the Borg how to modify their own nanoprobes... They'd have a blueprint to create a weapon to fight the aliens.

And what do we know, what proper authority Janeway has? Starfleet Captains seem to have a wide scope of discretion and action.

Insofar I do not see that the legal definition of "aiding the enemy" is met.

...it also violates Starfleet's standing orders regarding the Borg (Adm. Nechayev in "Descent"), and makes Janeway an accessory to genocide against a neutral power (a war crime).

Do you have any proof that there is a "standing order".

AFAIK, in TNG: Descent, Nechayev has given Picard a order:

• • • • • NECHAYEV:
        Your priority is to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens... not to wrestle with your conscience. Now I want to make it clear that if you have a similar opportunity in the future... an opportunity to destroy the Borg... you are under orders to take advantage of it. Is that understood?

I couldn't find anything about a "standing order" or that Janeway even knew about the order Nechayev gave Picard.



I would even question if this order still applies in the situation in which Janeway was. Spirit and purpose of this order was to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens.

Janeway decided to aid the Borg only after she learned that Species 8472 is possibly the greater threat to the lives of Federation citizens.

• • • • • KES:
        They're a telepathic species... I think I've been aware of them for some time now... the premonitions... Captain, it's not the Borg we should be worried about... it's them.
        
        • JANEWAY:
        What did it say to you?
        
        • KES:
        It said. "The weak will perish."
        
        [...]
        
        • JANEWAY:
        ... this is a unique situation...
        
        • • [...]
        ... You're suggesting we turn around...
        
        • CHAKOTAY:
        Yes. We should get out of harm's way... let them fight it out. In the meantime, there's still a lot of the Delta Quadrant we haven't explored... we may find another way home.
        
        • JANEWAY:
        Or we may find something else. Six months, a year down the road... after Species Eight Four Seven Two gets through with the Borg ... we could find ourselves back in the line of fire. And we'll have missed the window of opportunity that exists right here... right now.
        
        • CHAKOTAY:
        How much is our safety worth?
        
        • JANEWAY:
        What do you mean?
        
        • CHAKOTAY:
        We'd be giving an advantage to a race guilty of murdering billions. We'd be helping the Borg assimilate another species... just to get ourselves back to Earth. It's wrong.
        
        • JANEWAY:
        Tell that to Harry Kim. He's barely alive thanks to that species. Maybe helping to assimilate them isn't such a bad idea... we could be doing the Delta Quadrant a favor.

[WATCH-MAN]

Janeway is providing the Borg with the means to assimilate S8472 which not only means genocide but actually means when the Borg WIN the conflict. They will have access to S8472 technology.

The modified nanoprobes can destroy Species 8472.

AFAIK they are not enabling the Borg to assimilate Species 8472 or its technology.

What Voyager should have done:
A) Gather more intelligence on S8472 and verify their intentions by checking to see if they are ACTUALLY killing other races or if they can be reasoned with. Its not like the Federation practices diplomacy or anything, right ?
B) Contacting some of the neighbours would be a no-brainer

Janeway had the thoughts of speies 8472.

• • • • • KES:
        They're a telepathic species... I think I've been aware of them for some time now... the premonitions... Captain, it's not the Borg we should be worried about... it's them.
        
        • JANEWAY:
        What did it say to you?
        
        • KES:
        It said. "The weak will perish."

There is no better intel.

The question would be if she could have trusted Kes.

And what good would it have done to see, that species 8472 is not attacking other species at the moment - maybe because they are concentrating on the Borg first?

[StarSword]

You linked to a US law.
<snip>
Other nations do not have such a law and the law in the future may be different.

True, but because Starfleet borrows most of its operations and structure from the US Navy, I'm making an assumption that their military legal code is much the same.

Also violates British military law, Russian law, etc. This is not something unique to the US military.

Furthermore: Has Janeway given the Borg arms, ammunition, supplies, money or other things? Has Janeway tried to give the Borg arms, ammunition, supplies, money or other things?

Reread the law you quoted. It falls under subsection two, specifically "gives intelligence to, or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly".

Do you have any proof that there is a "standing order".

AFAIK, in TNG: Descent, Nechayev has given Picard a order:

• • • • • NECHAYEV:
        Your priority is to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens... not to wrestle with your conscience. Now I want to make it clear that if you have a similar opportunity in the future... an opportunity to destroy the Borg... you are under orders to take advantage of it. Is that understood?

I couldn't find anything about a "standing order" or that Janeway even knew about the order Nechayev gave Picard.

Okay, I'll give you that one. But the Federation is at war with the Borg. Standing orders in time of war are to damage the enemy at every reasonable opportunity. As I recall Nechayev was rather astonished that she had to remind Picard of this fact.

I would even question if this order still applies in the situation in which Janeway was. Spirit and purpose of this order was to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens.

And what better way to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens, along with the citizens of every civilization in the whole damn galaxy, by ensuring the Borg go the way of the dodo?

Janeway decided to aid the Borg only after she learned that Species 8472 is possibly the greater threat to the lives of Federation citizens.

Operative word being "possibly". She didn't have anywhere near enough intelligence to make that decision, so the default assumption should be that the Borg are the greater threat. She went with the Borg on the word of a psychic who didn't even have full control of her powers and on basis that one lone Undine attacked them. One individual is hardly representative of an entire species, and lest we forget, that individual had been abandoned on a derelict cube and it would be a lot more likely that it was lashing out in fear. Remember, they're not humanoid, so are we sure they can actually tell the difference between a Borg drone and a human?

[WATCH-MAN]

Furthermore: Has Janeway given the Borg arms, ammunition, supplies, money or other things? Has Janeway tried to give the Borg arms, ammunition, supplies, money or other things?

Reread the law you quoted. It falls under subsection two, specifically "gives intelligence to, or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly".

Reread what I have written:

• • • • • • • • Any person who [...] without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to, or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly; shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.
        And what do we know, what proper authority Janeway has? Starfleet Captains seem to have a wide scope of discretion and action.

Can you show that Janeway didn't have the proper authority to start negotiations with the Borg?

I do not see you complaining that later she startet negotiations with species 8472 and gave them the nanoprobe-technology - their only weapon against species 8472.

[WATCH-MAN]

Janeway decided to aid the Borg only after she learned that Species 8472 is possibly the greater threat to the lives of Federation citizens.

Operative word being "possibly". She didn't have anywhere near enough intelligence to make that decision, so the default assumption should be that the Borg are the greater threat.

Janeway had the thoughts of species 8472.

• • • • • KES:
        They're a telepathic species... I think I've been aware of them for some time now... the premonitions... Captain, it's not the Borg we should be worried about... it's them.
        
        • JANEWAY:
        What did it say to you?
        
        • KES:
        It said. "The weak will perish."

There is no better intel.

[StarSword]

Can you show that Janeway didn't have the proper authority to start negotiations with the Borg?

I do not accept that she, or indeed anyone, has proper authority to negotiate with a species whose entire raison d'etre is to kill or assimilate every thinking creature in the galaxy. This has been a truism of the Borg's existence from their first appearance to their last and has never wavered except in "Scorpion", when they were under threat of extinction thanks to a war they started because they're the natural enemies of every thinking creature in the galaxy. (That anybody on Voyager thought they might possibly have not started it just proves them to be complete idiots on top of being traitors.)

I do not see you complaining that later she startet negotiations with species 8472 and gave them the nanoprobe-technology - their only weapon against species 8472.

The difference is that the Undine demonstrate something resembling a basic moral code, i.e. the willingness to negotiate in good faith and keep to the agreements they make. Whereas, if Janeway and Chakotay hadn't demonstrated even the single grain of smarts that led to them making a contingency plan for the Collective's sudden but inevitable betrayal, they would've had only their own abject stupidity to blame for handing an intact Federation ship and all the information contained therein to the natural enemies of every thinking creature in the galaxy.*

*This cannot possibly be emphasized enough.

Janeway decided to aid the Borg only after she learned that Species 8472 is possibly the greater threat to the lives of Federation citizens.

Operative word being "possibly". She didn't have anywhere near enough intelligence to make that decision, so the default assumption should be that the Borg are the greater threat.

Janeway had the thoughts of species 8472.

• • • • • KES:
        They're a telepathic species... I think I've been aware of them for some time now... the premonitions... Captain, it's not the Borg we should be worried about... it's them.
        
        • JANEWAY:
        What did it say to you?
        
        • KES:
        It said. "The weak will perish."

There is no better intel.

One. Single. Fucking. Encounter. That is not representative of a whole species.

[WATCH-MAN]

Can you show that Janeway didn't have the proper authority to start negotiations with the Borg?

I do not accept that she, or indeed anyone, has proper authority to negotiate with a species whose entire raison d'etre is to kill or assimilate every thinking creature in the galaxy.

And you can show that there is a lex Borg that prohibits Starfleet Captains to try to negotiate with them?

I do not see you complaining that later she startet negotiations with species 8472 and gave them the nanoprobe-technology - their only weapon against species 8472.

The difference is that the Undine demonstrate something resembling a basic moral code, i.e. the willingness to negotiate in good faith and keep to the agreements they make.

When Janeway started the negotiations with species 8472, she couldn't know if they will be willing to negotiate in good faith and keep to the agreements they make. When she ordered to disarm the warheads, she couldn't know that Voyager won't be destroyed.

And:

• • • • • BULLOCK:
        The Borg are irrelevant. It's the humans that pose a threat.
        
        • • [...]
        • BOOTHBY:
        I can't promise you the moon, Captain. My superiors aren't as forward thinking. Peace with humans? They're going to hit the roof. But, I'll tell them what happened here today and with a pinch of luck a few of them might see the light.

With other words: Boothby has done what you have accused Janeway with: He started negotiations with the enemy without proper authoritiy by his superiors. And nothing is sure. The war could continue - without Voyager having a weapon against species 8472.

Janeway had the thoughts of species 8472.

• • • • • KES:
        They're a telepathic species... I think I've been aware of them for some time now... the premonitions... Captain, it's not the Borg we should be worried about... it's them.
        
        • JANEWAY:
        What did it say to you?
        
        • KES:
        It said. "The weak will perish."

There is no better intel.

One. Single. Fucking. Encounter. That is not representative of a whole species.

As you may have noticed: Kes didn't spoke of one single encounter or only of the thoughts of one specimen of species 8472.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Watch-Man, in the very same post here you quote the "aiding the enemy" regs, you also state that Janeway aided the Borg:

"Janeway decided to aid the Borg only after she learned that Species 8472 is possibly the greater threat"

Your exact words. Aided the Borg. S8472 might have been a greater threat, but that doesn't mean you can justifiably provide such weapons to the lesser threat. The Borg may be a lesser threat in comparison, but they are still the Borg. Since the Borg would inevitably use said weapons t destroy the Undine, it also falls under "accomplice to genocide," "conspiracy to commit a war crime" and so on as others have mentioned.


Oh, the first clause you quoted:

"aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or"

I'm pretty sure that the "or other things" includes designs for biological weapons. Hell, that should fall under arms/ammunition.

[PREDATOR490]

Janeway is providing the Borg with the means to assimilate S8472 which not only means genocide but actually means when the Borg WIN the conflict. They will have access to S8472 technology.

The modified nanoprobes can destroy Species 8472.

AFAIK they are not enabling the Borg to assimilate Species 8472 or its technology.

Yes they are, for fuck sake Chakotay AND Janeway both admit this in the quotes you provided.

The Borg technology they are playing with is what the Borg use to assimilate their targets. Thus by showing the Borg how to modify them to work on S8472 they are showing them how to assimilate them.

What Voyager should have done:
A) Gather more intelligence on S8472 and verify their intentions by checking to see if they are ACTUALLY killing other races or if they can be reasoned with. Its not like the Federation practices diplomacy or anything, right ?
B) Contacting some of the neighbours would be a no-brainer

Janeway had the thoughts of speies 8472.

• • • • • KES:
        They're a telepathic species... I think I've been aware of them for some time now... the premonitions... Captain, it's not the Borg we should be worried about... it's them.
        
        • JANEWAY:
        What did it say to you?
        
        • KES:
        It said. "The weak will perish."

There is no better intel.

The question would be if she could have trusted Kes.

And what good would it have done to see, that species 8472 is not attacking other species at the moment - maybe because they are concentrating on the Borg first?

Janeway did not have anything but the word of an Ocampa and the aggressive response from a single S8472 vessel in a warzone. Kes is the one with the ability which is extremely vague and unreliable. Just look at what you have posted.
Premonitions, Telepathy, Mind Reading
These are different abilities with a mountain of difference in trying to understand what Kes is doing.

Did Kes read the mind of a S8472 pilot while it was thinking of mauling Kim before it even met him ?
Did Kes read the mind of the entire S8472 network while it was thinking of mauling Kim before they even met Voyager ?
Did the S8472 pilot send Kes the image of Kim getting mauled ?
Did the S8472 network send Kes the image of Kim getting mauled ?
Did Kes see the future of Kim getting mauled when she did not interfere ?
Did Kes see the future of Kim getting mauled after she interfered ?

Regardless it all comes to the same thing. The amount of information Kes provided should NOT have been sufficient to jump to the 'ally with the Borg' stage.

After that point things become more difficult with Kes because Voyager is an enemy combatant and she is actively helping the enemies of the Borg. There is no denying that S8472 acted aggressively but as a member of an organisation dedicated to diplomacy and meeting new forms of life. It should be fucking obvious that further research into S8472 was mandatory before doing anything.

However, Janeway decides to bullrush into the situation with limited information which includes something as obvious like figuring out who started the fight or trying to establish more communication with S8472.
It is rather hilarious to point out that Janeway's logic is completely fucked up and twisted to the point of insanity.
If the Borg refuse to co-operate - they will assimilate Voyager and she destroys the only means of stopping S8472. Thus S8472 wipe out all life in the galaxy
If the Borg DO co-operate - Voyager will have to travel through a warzone while refusing to help the Borg. Thus Janeway is choosing to fuck the universe so she can get Voyager home. Exactly what she did in Endgame.
OR... as actually DOES happen. Voyager will get caught up in the warzone and have to actively help the Borg fight.

End result: Janeway is gambling the entire fate of the galaxy on hope she can blackmail the Borg to get Voyager through Borg space unmolested. This has fuck all to do with saving the galaxy.
If Janeway wanted to 'save' the galaxy she would give the Borg the technology and distribute it to every person she could find. The Borg wont hand out their technology to anyone else and as soon as Voyager hands over their intel the Borg assimilate them.

[Tribble]

If Voyager hadn't interfered, the Borg would be gone. Would S8472 gone on to purge the galaxy? IMO the answer is no. Later episodes indicate that S8472 only regarded Voyager as a target because of Janeway's alliance with the Borg. When Janeway handed over the nano-probe tech, they didn't destroy Voyager and invade the galaxy to purge it, even though they were now more than capable of doing so. Voyager was initially attacked because it was in a warzone, then continually attacked when it became clear that it was aiding the Borg. "Boothby" even stated that their claims that the "galaxy would be purged" was mere posturing, and was only really intended for the Borg.

[PREDATOR490]

Sadly, so little information on S8472 and their motivations exist that it is impossible to know what the full situation was.

It is possible that S8472 will still invade and slaughter everyone or... they could take another pop at the Borg and finish what they started.

Regardless, Janeway is a moron of the highest order and should be thrown in jail for her actions.
Janeway believed S8472 were an intergalactic threat then using the only means of defense as BLACKMAIL for your personal agenda is disgusting
Janeway believed S8472 would purge all life in the galaxy and then hands over the only means of defense is equally irresponsible

In both cases she made decisions with a severe lack of intelligence and the only thing saving her is writers fiat.

[WATCH-MAN]

Watch-Man, in the very same post here you quote the "aiding the enemy" regs, you also state that Janeway aided the Borg:

"Janeway decided to aid the Borg only after she learned that Species 8472 is possibly the greater threat"

Your exact words. Aided the Borg.

[...]

the first clause you quoted:

"aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or"

I'm pretty sure that the "or other things" includes designs for biological weapons. Hell, that should fall under arms/ammunition.

Aiding the enemy is not punishable as long as the statutory offense isn't fulfilled (nulla poena sine lege).

• • • • Any person who-
        (1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or
        (2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to, or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;
        shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

Janeway has neither given nor tried to give the Borg arms, ammunition, supplies, money or other things. It was planned to give the Borg only information.

Information, knowledge, intelligence etc. are no things. These are included in the second clause.

But the second clause isn't fulfilled if there is "proper authority". Starfleet Captains seem to have a wide scope of discretion and action. I see no reason to assume that Janeway - as a Starfleet Captain - didn't had the "proper authority".

I do not see that the statutory offense is fulfilled.

And the question if such a statutors offense exists in Starfleet isn't answered yet.

[WATCH-MAN]

If Voyager hadn't interfered, the Borg would be gone. Would S8472 gone on to purge the galaxy? IMO the answer is no. Later episodes indicate that [...]

If you want to judge Janeway, you should do it ex ante and not ex post.

What did Janeway know when she made her decision? Is her decision with the knowledge she had within her scope of discretion and action?

The fact that her decision had no consequences, that Starfleet command was satisfied with her decisions and actions and even promoted her indicates that her actions were within her scope of discretion and action.

[WATCH-MAN]

PREDATOR490

As all Kes saw has come true - there was no reason for Janeway to distrust her abilities.

• • • • • JANEWAY:
        Kes? Anything?
        
        • KES:
        Yes. I can hear them. They come from a place where they're alone. Nothing else lives there.
        
        • CHAKOTAY:
        Some kind of parallel universe.
        
        • KES:
        I don't know. I feel malevolence, a cold hatred. The weak will perish. It's an invasion. They intend on destroying everything.

And what Kes said was supported by the observed aggressiveness of species 8472.

Without provocation they attacked Voyager - although Voyager was obviously no Borg ship.

Justified Conclusion: Species 8472 is a highly aggressiv species even more dangerous than the Borg.

More reliable information were not available.

In this moment, decisions had to be made.

Janeway made a decision.

Judge this decision ex ante and not ex post.

[StarSword]

Minor quibble, would it kill you to put all your arguments in the same post?

But the second clause isn't fulfilled if there is "proper authority". Starfleet Captains seem to have a wide scope of discretion and action. I see no reason to assume that Janeway - as a Starfleet Captain - didn't had the "proper authority".

And I see no reason to assume that anyone has the "proper authority" to provide tactical assistance to a party intent on genocide of the entire fucking galaxy. Did you skip every previous and succeeding episode featuring the Borg or something?

And the question if such a statutors offense exists in Starfleet isn't answered yet.

Considering Starfleet's legal code has not ever been shown in canon, this question is impossible to answer for certain. But it is a reasonable assumption that, given that approximately every nation ever considers providing assistance to enemy groups a crime, that the Federation does as well. And given that the Borg are the natural enemies of every thinking creature in the galaxy, helping them would therefore be considered a crime by anyone except the Borg themselves.

If Voyager hadn't interfered, the Borg would be gone. Would S8472 gone on to purge the galaxy? IMO the answer is no. Later episodes indicate that [...]

If you want to judge Janeway, you should do it ex ante and not ex post.

If you want to judge Kes, you should do it ex ante and not ex post. See, I can do it too.

What did Janeway know when she made her decision? Is her decision with the knowledge she had within her scope of discretion and action?

What she knew was that there was a group attacking the Borg and winning, and that Kes doesn't like them. What she could have figured out if she'd thought about it for half a second was that the Borg were the aggressors.

Have you noticed yet that the entire argument that the Undine were omnicidal maniacs hinges on it being impossible for a single completely untrained psychic to be wrong? Or that one single Undine's thoughts that "the weak shall perish" do not represent an entire species?

The fact that her decision had no consequences, that Starfleet command was satisfied with her decisions and actions and even promoted her indicates that her actions were within her scope of discretion and action.

Or, it indicates that Voyager's crew covered up the whole thing because of their hero-worship of a fucking psychopath. Or that Starfleet's military justice system is completely incompetent, as we've seen on a number of previous occasions (*cough* "Rules of Engagement" *cough*).

[PREDATOR490]

PREDATOR490
As all Kes saw has come true - there was no reason for Janeway to distrust her abilities.

Abilities that Kes does not understand or is able to control. Helping commit genocide because an unreliable psychic told you to is a hilariously bad decision.

• • • • • JANEWAY:
        Kes? Anything?
        
        • KES:
        Yes. I can hear them. They come from a place where they're alone. Nothing else lives there.
        
        • CHAKOTAY:
        Some kind of parallel universe.
        
        • KES:
        I don't know. I feel malevolence, a cold hatred. The weak will perish. It's an invasion. They intend on destroying everything.

Look at the last line. I DONT KNOW
Kes is literally demonstrating she is unreliable and the information she is getting is alarmist garbage. Jumping into bed with the Borg because Kes used magic to determine S8472 were posturing is stupid.

And what Kes said was supported by the observed aggressiveness of species 8472.

Without provocation they attacked Voyager - although Voyager was obviously no Borg ship.

Justified Conclusion: Species 8472 is a highly aggressiv species even more dangerous than the Borg.

Voyager entered a warzone
Voyager sent an armed away team to poke around the S8472 ship
Voyager also tried to use a tractor beam on the bio ship

All of these actions are enough to provoke a response and you would expect Starfleet to train their captains to understand that.
The S8472 ship does not try to purse and at best gives them a significant kick in the ass. Harry Kim was infected but no indication if that was intentional or accidental.

More reliable information were not available.

In this moment, decisions had to be made.

Janeway made a decision.

Judge this decision ex ante and not ex post.

More information WAS available - They just had to make an effort to find it
The only decision Janeway made was to make a selfish decision to side with the Borg because it got what she wanted. The dialogue makes it clear she is going off the rails by saying helping the Borg assimilate S8472 is not a bad idea.
Janeway wants to go through Borg space. That is her goal and she refuses to accept the idea of waiting or taking longer resulting in the insane idea of allying with the Borg.

I will repeat this: The decision Janeway made was NOT to save the universe. That is just a bullshit justification she is using to cover the real reason. Janeway wanted to go through Borg Space so she took the most reckless decision possible with the pathetic supporting evidence she had to justify it.

The intentions of S8472 are irrelevant because the decision to ally with the Borg was made on a false premise with shitty evidence to support it and a willful ignorance on Janeway to find more. This is not the kind of behavior someone in authority should be displaying.