Sarah Palin: Mr President, Nuke Russia

[Zaune]

Seriously, anyone want to pitch in on a fundraiser to hire Lex Steele to follow Palin around so every time she opens her mouth he can jam his massive wang in there to prevent her from saying stupid shit?

It'd take one hell of a lot of money. I can't name a single prominent Republican politician I'd trust to give good head.

[Aasharu]

It's called the Budapest Memorandum because it's a memorandum, not a treaty. No US administration has ever seriously considered providing military aid to Ukraine in case of unpleasantness with Russia. Furthermore, the Memorandum only mentions a "commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance", so it's not like anyone could ever have seriously thought that the 10th Mountain would be dropped in at the first sign of trouble.

I'm aware, but Trainwreck asked what business we have over there, and the memorandum is it. How legally binding it is, and whether we honor it or not, all that has yet to be determined, (my guess, the answers to both will be " not very" and "not likely," respectively,) but we can't just say we have no business there at all and wash our hands of the problem.

[Raw Shark]

I can't name a single prominent Republican politician I'd trust to give good head.

Mitch McConnell always struck me as a knob-worshipping size queen; something about his default facial expression. Olympia Snowe seems like she'd probably give as good as she got in the sense of cooperation and all. That's just in the Senate; be fair now, man.

[Zaune]

Clearly you've researched this issue more thoroughly than I have.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

I'm aware, but Trainwreck asked what business we have over there, and the memorandum is it. How legally binding it is, and whether we honor it or not, all that has yet to be determined, (my guess, the answers to both will be " not very" and "not likely," respectively,) but we can't just say we have no business there at all and wash our hands of the problem.

Well if the memorandum isn't binding (which they aren't as a rule), then you absolutely can disregard it. Or you can do the next best thing, try to put it through the UNSC and get vetoed by Russia. Obama may lose face if he does, but America as a country won't.

But you're obviously right, it is a thing that exists.

[Simon_Jester]

The Budapest Memorandum APPEARS to me, on superficial examination, to be binding- but all it really does is require that the signatories (including Russia) consult in the event that a breach of the agreement occurs, such as one of the signatories violating Ukraine's territorial sovereignty.

So, as non-aggression pacts go, it's pretty weak. It does not in any way guarantee that any of the signatories will go to war to protect the Ukraine from an invasion.

[Mr. Coffee]

Seriously, anyone want to pitch in on a fundraiser to hire Lex Steele to follow Palin around so every time she opens her mouth he can jam his massive wang in there to prevent her from saying stupid shit?

It'd take one hell of a lot of money. I can't name a single prominent Republican politician I'd trust to give good head.

Dude, if there's one thing I actually trust Caribou Barbi to do correctly, it's suck dick. She's a former beauty show contestant that needed half a dozen schools to get a degree. If she didn't learn some amazing fellatio skills along that career track than I'll eat my goddamn hat. I bet she even knows to work the shaft with one hand and cup the balls with the other (rumor has it it that's how she got recommended for the VP nomination in '08).

[Scrib]

Right.So...we're doubling down on this whole misogynistic joke thing? Okay.

[Mr. Coffee]

Ok, will you politically correct sons of bitches shut the fuck up about every goddamn thing being misogynistic already? Seriously, not every goddamn thing is misogynist, nor is everything that appears to be misogynistic meant seriously. So fuck yourself, fuck your mom for not swallowing, and fuck random chance for not hitting your pedantic ass with a fucking car already.

Goddamn, get a fucking sense of humor already, dick.

P.S. Not drinking, you're just that fucking annoying.

[Scrib]

I can't think of anyone making a better case for the cons of this site's moderating style. I like it but this is the other side of the equation. Every once in a while a free-riding troglodyte gets to use the systems there for calling people on their own shit while being constructive to bang his club on the walls and sling shit at everything that moves.

If you can't see why someone would have a problem with you claiming that a woman got the job because she sucked dick, even as a joke, then you have problems. If you cannot defend the assertion that insulting Sarah fucking Palin doesn't make your jokes misogynistic without devolving to grade school insults and bullying -and a frat boy defence against charges of misogyny- then you're a fucking moron. You cannot even maintain the composure to argue for your joke against a universally accepted (on the left) icon of stupidity you fucking cave troll. Take a step back and look at yourself.

[Mr. Coffee]

Yes, because we have to argue for or against a joke. Get over yourself, you thin skinned little pussy. Sarah Palin is a terrible fucking person so I don't see any problem with insulting that white trash skank. I get it, you're one of those internet crusaders that has to cry about anything anyone says that's even remotely offensive to your fragile little ego. Guess what? I don't give a flying fuck if I offend you (or anyone else for that matter, ask around around if you doubt me). I don't know you, I don't really care to get to know you, but now that I have your direct attention and know how to yank your chain...

Just one look at her CV will tell you that sucking dick was a required career move for her at some point.

[Covenant]

Nasty jokes are part of the reason women don't feel like they can get involved in debates or politics like this though. While Scrib may not know that the shock-and-awe comedy style is just your thing, he's still right to say it as a general principle, and you shouldn't be so thin-skinned by now that you've got to get your knickers in a twist anytime tells you that a joke is tasteless. I don't know how you get anything done in a day if you actually engage with everyone trying to bring your humor down to Saturday Morning Cartoon safety levels.

Besides, there's a difference between having no sense of humor and having a sense of humor, but knowing that nasty sex-based jokes are part of what makes certain spaces antagonistic towards women.

[Zaune]

Either way, I think we've pretty much run this one into the ground now; being on the same party ticket as various rape apologists and fundie whackjobs who say far worse about women and aren't actually kidding only buys so much leeway before we start looking like dicks, and I'm quitting while I'm ahead!

[K. A. Pital]

Wait. Women don't go to politics = automatic support for a woman in politics no matter how fucking dumb and evil? I mean, tasteless joke? Okay.

Besides, questioning mod judgement requires something more serious than a joke about Sarah Palin being shut up by a dick in her mouth.

[Scrib]

Wait. Women don't go to politics = automatic support for a woman in politics no matter how fucking dumb and evil? I mean, tasteless joke? Okay.

Besides, questioning mod judgement requires something more serious than a joke about Sarah Palin being shut up by a dick in her mouth.

When was that his claim? The claim was that specific jokes that are targeted at women make the environment unfriendly to women. Would you also claim that arguing against calling Obama a nigger equals automatic support for black males in politics because they're not that many of them (an assumption for the thought experiment to avoid pedantry)?

[Covenant]

I think he was talking to you Scrib, as I didn't mention anything about moderation policy.

For my own comments, I'd say that I give no support for Sarah Palin, but my lack of support for Sarah Palin as an individual shouldn't lead me to rummaging through the box of "Things that specifically call out Women" in order to make a joke about her stupidity. Rape jokes about silencing her via forced blowjob have a lot more to do with Sarah Palin being a woman than they do with Sarah Palin being a walking mouthpiece for conservative knuckle-draggers. Her being a total idiot doesn't make that kind of joke justified though, not that kind of joke.

I mean, really. We're fighting over if or if not a rape joke casually tossed out is appropriate?

Yeah, it's a tasteless joke and it shouldn't have to be talked about this far, but making a tasteless joke that also specifically targets gender, or color, or whatever is the kind of thing that people shouldn't do unless they're prepared for someone calling them out for it. It shouldn't be done at all, really.

[Simon_Jester]

We have an ongoing "rape culture" thread going on over here. The basic thesis of the people worrying about this is that when the males in a certain environment go around making degrading remarks about the sexuality of females, the environment becomes unfriendly for females.

Since as far as I know, the number of women who still frequent N&P can be counted on one's fingers- maybe the fingers of one hand, even... we may have a bit of a problem in this regard.

And given that this is a problem I think it's fair to call people out specifically on jokes they see as sexist.

Is Sarah Palin a horrible idiot who should leave politics? Sure, fine. The problem's not with criticizing Sarah Palin, which is good clean fun for anyone with an IQ over eighty. The problem is not with calling Sarah Palin an idiot, her being female doesn't make her not an idiot.

The problem is the idea that "sex as gesture of power to shut up idiot female" is something men can or should routinely toss off in an environment where in theory women are supposed to be able to participate.

[Scrib]

I think he was talking to you Scrib, as I didn't mention anything about moderation policy.

Oh, yeah, brainfart.

But to respond, Stas: It was probably because I wasn't really concerned with "questioning mod judgement". Like I said, I like the system, and the fact that I consider Coffee an anomaly and said that I considered this an occasional thing should have made it quite clear that I consider this a feature that is inherent to the system but one that doesn't necessarily mean we should discard it.

It was an offhand comment, not a call to revolution.

[Mr. Coffee]

Besides, there's a difference between having no sense of humor and having a sense of humor, but knowing that nasty sex-based jokes are part of what makes certain spaces antagonistic towards women.

Yes, and think a lot of people need to get over that shit too. If you actually think me making tasteless jokes makes this place unfriendly for women then y'all need your head examined.

[K. A. Pital]

Would you also claim that arguing against calling Obama a nigger equals automatic support for black males in politics because they're not that many of them (an assumption for the thought experiment to avoid pedantry)?

No. I also don't consider this joke being equivalent to someone calling Obama a 'nigger' or a jihadist islamist Hussein Osama. The joke about shutting up a stupid female politician with a cock may be a tad distasteful, but so what? In this case the joke has a point. As far as I know, this is specifically about Palin and not about females in general.

If you think about SDN, that's actually a place filled with extremely diverse individuals. Diverse in lifestyle, interests and even the very places they live in. Maybe not so diverse in political opinion, but that's because being a creationist, for example, requires one to be a really dumb fuck, and this removes tens of millions of such dumb fucks from the very start.

Are there problems in N&P? If so, let's deal with them. However, I do fail to see how this joke is any more distasteful than comparing a human being to a camel - which is a very common joke when you want someone stupid to shut up.

[Channel72]

Sarah Palin isn't relevant anymore. Who cares what she says... she's basically been reduced to a standard for-profit right-wing mouthpiece. Nobody cares anymore.

At best she'll be a minor historical footnote, most likely eclipsed by Hillary Clinton's 2016 run.

[Mr. Coffee]

I dunno, Kitsune thought it was interesting enough to post a thread about and the rest of us have been either mocking Palin or bitching about how we go about making fun of her.

[Simon_Jester]

No. I also don't consider this joke being equivalent to someone calling Obama a 'nigger' or a jihadist islamist Hussein Osama. The joke about shutting up a stupid female politician with a cock may be a tad distasteful, but so what? In this case the joke has a point. As far as I know, this is specifically about Palin and not about females in general.

And yet part of the point here is that when we make certain types of jokes about one person in particular they sometimes reinforce a negative opinion of all people. For example "dumb blonde" jokes tend to be not only jokes directed against a specific hair color, but against some imagined class of 'stupid airheaded females.' That can contribute to sexism, not just to 'hair-ism' or whatever you want to call it.

If you think about SDN, that's actually a place filled with extremely diverse individuals. Diverse in lifestyle, interests and even the very places they live in. Maybe not so diverse in political opinion, but that's because being a creationist, for example, requires one to be a really dumb fuck, and this removes tens of millions of such dumb fucks from the very start.

Is the 5:1 or 10:1 ratio of males to females among the active posters reflective of this overall diversity? Is it because women are somehow inferior, or is it because of something else?

Are there problems in N&P? If so, let's deal with them. However, I do fail to see how this joke is any more distasteful than comparing a human being to a camel - which is a very common joke when you want someone stupid to shut up.

Camels, specifically? Calling people that may be a Russian thing, but that is not the point.

Personally, I respectfully disagree with your take on which kind of joke is more... let's say degrading. "You are like some sort of animal" strikes me as less degrading, because it is transparently absurd and bears no resemblance to reality. It is very unlikely that anyone would seriously think a person is an animal; we do not have trouble telling different species apart. No one is in danger of being mistaken for a dog, or a horse, or a camel.

"This woman should be forced to perform oral sex as a way of stopping her from expressing her stupid political views" strikes me as more degrading, because it relies on sex-as-dominance to supply the humor. And there ARE men out there who attempt to use sex as a gesture of dominance or punishment, to stop women from saying or doing things they disapprove of. That actually happens, even if it doesn't happen in public venues. Women ARE in danger of being raped (sometimes) or threatened with rape (rather more often) for saying or doing something a man disapproves of.

[K. A. Pital]

Women are in danger of being raped, that's true. In a world ruled by even female republicans they'd be not just in danger of being raped, but also in danger of being deprived of abortion rights and being, in the end, left with the good old 'kitchen-church-children' triad. If there was a term for gender traitors, being a female republican would be it. Being a female republican like Palin would be the definition of it.

I also wonder about the ratio thing. There were more than a few active female posters here, but not all of them left because someone made a bad joke. Men do usually have more free time: that is the reality of our gender-biased patriarchal world.

We do allow people to say some politicians to get fucked. I fail to see how this doesn't rely on sex-as-dominance, it obviously does. So should we now stop doing this? I find a person whose very fucking existence is a threat to women at least in an entire big country far more dangerous than a sex joke about said person being forced to shut up. Sarah Palin is a danger to all women and a disgrace to mankind itself. If I say Hitler should get fucked, that does mean I'm making a sex-as-dominance reference, yes. I also know Hitler killed lots of people just for being homosexual. Think about this.

I just find it bizarre that we are discussing Palin as an example of females in politics in the context of female rights. Guys, wake the fuck up. A female in politics like Sarah Palin is not good for female rights and will never be. She will only be good when she's retired. But even then she'll spread the idiocy like some portable lobotomy generator, if such device can even be described.

If there was a need to make a less crude joke, a more elaborate one perhaps, sure - I agree. A less offensive joke? No. Sarah Palin deserved any amount of trash talk about herself by her actions.

[Grumman]

If you think about SDN, that's actually a place filled with extremely diverse individuals. Diverse in lifestyle, interests and even the very places they live in. Maybe not so diverse in political opinion, but that's because being a creationist, for example, requires one to be a really dumb fuck, and this removes tens of millions of such dumb fucks from the very start.

Is the 5:1 or 10:1 ratio of males to females among the active posters reflective of this overall diversity? Is it because women are somehow inferior, or is it because of something else?

While I do think Mr Coffee is out of line, I would expect there to be a significant majority of males here just because the site is called StarDestroyer.net. If the site was called Panem.net or Ravenclaw.net the site would likely get more random women dropping in to see what it was about, while StarDestroyer.net is more likely to pique the interest of men than women.