Ideal govenemtal systems

[Alyrium Denryle]

So? what would you prefer? Give details.


I woud like a form of goveremt simlar to that of the US with a few limitations on those that can run or office.

1)must have an IQ of at least 100. I dont want the stupid in office.

2) A andidae must be knowledgable in certain fields, and have at lest a passing knowledge of them.
law
history
science(biology, and astronomy)
medicine(a high school anatomy&physiology class would be sufficient)
must have 3.0 GPA, in todays school systm it is possible to do nothng and get a C. I want people who actually put effort into thngs they do.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Hmm, was going to say like the ancient Greeks had but I forget the proper workings of it and the name, I shall have to ask Jo tonight.

I assume this is all theoretical and not for practice since somewhere along the way it will be fucked up by humans.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well, lets try and get it as close to realistic as possible.

[Guardsman Bass]

I slightly disagree with the IQ part. I believe most politicians do have that IQ, including Bush. After all, if the man was a real idiot he would not have been elected to the Presidency. I would suggest the following in future ideal governments:

1. Establish an executive council consisting of 5 executives(not business executives, but political leaders)with four of them elected every 10 years but only allowed to be elected twice to the council.

2. A two-chambered legislative body, with one being a body of citizens randomly selected from the populace for 1-3 years of service. They make the decisions, but are advised by experts on the various subjects from the various ministries. They are paid a good wage to make it desirable-US$120,000, for example, but can not be selected twice. They meet once a week or whenever an emergency session is held.

3. The other body would be a parliament, with proportional representation:for example, if you are the commie-nazi party and win 15% percent of the populace in the vote, you take 15% of the seats. The parties are required to list 5 candidates, and in addition to voting for a party, the voters must vote for at least one of the candidates of the party they are voting for, or check in the box that says,"does not approve of any of these candidates."

4. The dominant party in the parliament has to pick 3 candidates to fill up the fifth seat on the executive council. One of these candidates must be approved by the citizen body. If the citizen body does not approve of the candidates, they can reject them and the parliament is required to select new candidates.
5. The selected fifth executive is the Premier/President of the government, and has executive veto over any of the laws proposed by the Council or legislature, but is overruled if the other 4 executives vote in unison for the proposal.
6. Although the legislature can not ACTUALLY pass laws, it can send "proposals" to the Executive council:if the proposal has a majority vote in favor, the council is required to discuss it but not pass a law in favor of it; if a two-thirds vote, then the Council must include it as a future law.
7. The Supreme Court appoint commissions to study the laws, and is allowed to rule against a law, declaring it unconstitutional or such.
8. For all of this, all members of the parliament, Executive Council, and Judiciary are required to be college graduates in a subject relevant to their duties-i.e. political science, public affairs, Law.
9. Education systems must be strengthened.

This is just a small list.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I slightly disagree with the IQ part. I believe most politicians do have that IQ, including Bush. After all, if the man was a real idiot he would not have been elected to the Presidency. I would suggest the following in future ideal governments:

1. Establish an executive council consisting of 5 executives(not business executives, but political leaders)with four of them elected every 10 years but only allowed to be elected twice to the council.

2. A two-chambered legislative body, with one being a body of citizens randomly selected from the populace for 1-3 years of service. They make the decisions, but are advised by experts on the various subjects from the various ministries. They are paid a good wage to make it desirable-US$120,000, for example, but can not be selected twice. They meet once a week or whenever an emergency session is held.

3. The other body would be a parliament, with proportional representation:for example, if you are the commie-nazi party and win 15% percent of the populace in the vote, you take 15% of the seats. The parties are required to list 5 candidates, and in addition to voting for a party, the voters must vote for at least one of the candidates of the party they are voting for, or check in the box that says,"does not approve of any of these candidates."

4. The dominant party in the parliament has to pick 3 candidates to fill up the fifth seat on the executive council. One of these candidates must be approved by the citizen body. If the citizen body does not approve of the candidates, they can reject them and the parliament is required to select new candidates.
5. The selected fifth executive is the Premier/President of the government, and has executive veto over any of the laws proposed by the Council or legislature, but is overruled if the other 4 executives vote in unison for the proposal.
6. Although the legislature can not ACTUALLY pass laws, it can send "proposals" to the Executive council:if the proposal has a majority vote in favor, the council is required to discuss it but not pass a law in favor of it; if a two-thirds vote, then the Council must include it as a future law.
7. The Supreme Court appoint commissions to study the laws, and is allowed to rule against a law, declaring it unconstitutional or such.
8. For all of this, all members of the parliament, Executive Council, and Judiciary are required to be college graduates in a subject relevant to their duties-i.e. political science, public affairs, Law.
9. Education systems must be strengthened.

This is just a small list.

This I do like, thouh bush has an IQ of 91, ad is, well...almost mentlly handicapped.

I recomend the extra education in the sciences because the concepts seem to be totally foriegn to politicians today

[SWPIGWANG]

one that BDZ the planet for good

[Alyrium Denryle]

someone is misanthropic

[kojikun]

benign dictatorship, or..

A senate where the senators are randomly chossen from the people they represent to represent them, not voted for.

A curia whos job it is to approve or not the laws passed by the senate based on their constitutionality. They would be called for from previous senators and scholars.

It would be somewhat based on the Roman republic, possibly with an emperor as a general organiser and proposer of issues for the senate to address.

[InnerBrat]

OK, this may hijack the thread, so I apologise in advance, but:

How exactly is the ability to do a modified Stanford-Binet test (which is really all IQ is) going to affect one's ability to run a country?

[Pu-239]

So? what would you prefer? Give details.


I woud like a form of goveremt simlar to that of the US with a few limitations on those that can run or office.

1)must have an IQ of at least 100. I dont want the stupid in office.

2) A andidae must be knowledgable in certain fields, and have at lest a passing knowledge of them.
law
history
science(biology, and astronomy)
medicine(a high school anatomy&physiology class would be sufficient)
must have 3.0 GPA, in todays school systm it is possible to do nothng and get a C. I want people who actually put effort into thngs they do.

Add some competence in technology. The business executives are funding Hollings because they know he is ignorant of the consequences of such laws.

[Sir Sirius]

You won't get called stupid so often. Appereances are important for politicians you know.

[Sea Skimmer]

There is no ideal.

[PeZook]

You can't have an ideal government. That said, i don't agree with the idea of a randomly chosem legislative body. First of all, citizens may NOT like being appointed without their consent. Even with a great pay, would a sucessful company manager want to give up his job for 2-3 years? Plus, you don't know WHO you are chosing to be a senator.

I STRONGLY disagree with a multitude of "presidents". It didn't work after the French Revolution, it will not work today.

You need leaders in a position of power - good managers. Specialists should get the position of advisors, so that they can't push the agendas of their own proffesion.

[kojikun]

pezook, i should also add that the person would also have to maintain working at the job hes as presently, not give it up.

and randomly chosen legislation is much better then what we have because then you get the will fo the people not the will of the few rich corrupt politicians. you dont get people who are working for their own agendas and not that of the peoples.

with randomly chosen legislation the persons own agenda IS that of the people, because he is OF the people. senators and presidents as they are now are not of the people but of the wealthy business owners and such that have noone but their own success to worry about.

[Master of Ossus]

The ideal government is formed by a single informed, intelligent, benevolent dictator who has been appointed various staff members and other government officials to follow his instructions and make policies on how to accomplish objectives that the dictator deems necessary.

[Crayz9000]

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[PeZook]

The ideal government is formed by a single informed, intelligent, benevolent dictator who has been appointed various staff members and other government officials to follow his instructions and make policies on how to accomplish objectives that the dictator deems necessary.

I think we've had it already, in the form of the "enlightened" monarchs in Europe. Just like anything else, it didn't work out too well

[Master of Ossus]

The ideal government is formed by a single informed, intelligent, benevolent dictator who has been appointed various staff members and other government officials to follow his instructions and make policies on how to accomplish objectives that the dictator deems necessary.

I think we've had it already, in the form of the "enlightened" monarchs in Europe. Just like anything else, it didn't work out too well

Those monarchs were not as intelligent or informed as they had to be, and they CERTAINLY were not benevolent. This is an ideal system of government, not a realistic one. The fact that benevolent dictators are extraordinarily rare (assuming that they even exist), and that if they happened to exist they would not be drawn towards the position and therefore would go undiscovered, necessitates a form of representative government. However, if we could have ANY government we wanted and create a super-person (or whatever) to fill the role, I believe that a benevolent dictator would be the best possible government.

[PeZook]

pezook, i should also add that the person would also have to maintain working at the job hes as presently, not give it up.

And at the same time, he'd have to deal with legislative duties, as well as (presumably) take care of his own family? Nobody would want such a job. And imagine what such a guy would have to go through at work. Everyone would either lick his/her ass (you know, he's a SENATOR) or get out of his/her way.

What if the guy you appointed lives in California? You force him to move into Washington, so that he can work efficiently on new laws?

and randomly chosen legislation is much better then what we have because then you get the will fo the people not the will of the few rich corrupt politicians. you dont get people who are working for their own agendas and not that of the peoples.

No, you get the will of a guy randomly chosen into the office, who would only dream to get the hell back to his own cozy job, instead of being forced to work at two fronts. Plus, he may start having weird ideas about fixing the country, or even getting his proffesional group a special status.
In the end, it would be exactly the same. Three years is not long enough to completely corrupt the guy, but it is short enough so that he wouldn't care about his duties. Why should he - he doesn't have to get votes, so he can do whatever the fuck he wants.

with randomly chosen legislation the persons own agenda IS that of the people, because he is OF the people. senators and presidents as they are now are not of the people but of the wealthy business owners and such that have noone but their own success to worry about.

The agenda is his and his alone. If he's a teacher, he'd try to get some special aid for teachers. If he's a homeless guy, he won't care about anything else but the homeless, and getting them money. If he's an owner of a private company, he'd try getting tax exempts. In most cases, such senators won't care for anything.

I'm not saying the system working now is good - but what you propose would require a complete purge in our society. It only worked in ancient Greece because everybody had a sense of duty and obligation to his city-state. Why should an average Joe care for 300 million other people, most of which he doesn't know and never gave a fuck about?

[PeZook]

The ideal government is formed by a single informed, intelligent, benevolent dictator who has been appointed various staff members and other government officials to follow his instructions and make policies on how to accomplish objectives that the dictator deems necessary.

I think we've had it already, in the form of the "enlightened" monarchs in Europe. Just like anything else, it didn't work out too well

Those monarchs were not as intelligent or informed as they had to be, and they CERTAINLY were not benevolent. This is an ideal system of government, not a realistic one. The fact that benevolent dictators are extraordinarily rare (assuming that they even exist), and that if they happened to exist they would not be drawn towards the position and therefore would go undiscovered, necessitates a form of representative government. However, if we could have ANY government we wanted and create a super-person (or whatever) to fill the role, I believe that a benevolent dictator would be the best possible government.

In this case, conceeded. But someone said we should try to keep it realistic...this one is not. I suppose we COULD appoint an AI and let it govern the world

[kojikun]

pezook you take it too far. you act as thought EVERYONE is a corrupt politician when this is simply not true.

and you ignore the fact that what we have is bad enough. I've proposed an improvement, where the people in office are not there because they have power and money but because they are the people who are to be ruled.

How would YOU propose governmentbe set up to ensure that the people are not opressed, or the like?

i would also add that in the US's government, as it stands, congress is only required to meet ONCE a year. possibly less. are you meaning to say that one meeting a year is too much time away from work?

[Spyder]

Easy way to answer this question:

Who prefered which society in Alpha Centauri?

[UltraViolence83]

My ideal government/socio-economic structure:

A method of feudalism. But hybridized with a republic. Feudalistic societies has been the most stable and long-lasting in history, with republics in second. The purpose of the republic structure being added is to provide a forum for the nobles and commoner senators to debate and make laws, also so the non-royalty have enough power to protect themselves from the tyranny of a few.

I've really gotten into Dune...

[Uther]

Just a small point: Bush does NOT have an IQ of 91. Well, ok, maybe he does, but there's no reason to believe it's 91-

You're getting that off an internet hoax from a few years back when an institution that turned out to be nonexistant purpoted to have obtained the presidents' IQ scores. Bush got a 1220 on his SATs, if that means anything.

[UltraViolence83]

Oh? Let's see what Bush has to say about that:

Fearless Leader: "Don't misunderestimate my strategery."