Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support rancher

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Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support rancher

Post by Lonestar »

All the print that's fit to news
By BEN BOTKIN and HENRY BREAN
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
BUNKERVILLE — From near and wide, armed men are trickling toward Cliven Bundy’s ranch, where the rancher’s fight with the federal government has become a rallying cry for militia groups across the United States.

On Wednesday, that dispute teetered at the edge of deadly conflict, when Cliven Bundy’s family members and supporters scuffled with rangers from the Bureau of Land Management sent to protect the federal roundup of Bundy’s cattle on public land.

One of Bundy’s seven sons was shot with a stun gun, and Bundy’s sister was knocked to the ground; but no one was seriously hurt, and no arrests were made.

By late Wednesday, three militia members — two from Montana and one from Utah — had arrived at the ranch 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas. Other militia groups have inundated the Bundy household with calls and pledges to muster at the site. Their stated goal: to protect the Bundys from tyranny.

They say they are prepared for armed confrontation, but they insist they will not be the instigators if bloodshed happens.

Ryan Payne and Jim Lardy, members of the West Mountain Rangers, made the 12-hour drive from western Montana on Tuesday night. Payne is also a coordinator with Operation Mutual Aid, a national association that describes itself as a coalition of state militias.

“They all tell me they are in the process of mobilizing as we speak,” Payne said.

He didn’t put a specific estimate on how many militia members may come, but he said the groups expected are from places like New Hampshire, Texas and Florida and could number in the hundreds.

“We need to be the barrier between the oppressed and the tyrants,” he said. “Expect to see a band of soldiers.”

Payne, 30, and Lardy, 49, both wore holstered handguns as they spoke, but they downplayed the display of firepower. They wear their weapons daily.

They say the goals are for no one to be harmed, the Bundy family to be protected, and the Bundy property restored.

For now, the militia members will camp on the Bundy ranch. They say the issue isn’t about cattle or grazing rights; it’s about constitutional rights.

“We’re not anti-government,” said Lardy, who cuts firewood for a living. “We’re anti-corrupt government.”

Stephen Dean, 45, an artist from Utah, said he made the trip in hopes of heading off another Ruby Ridge or Waco, referring to deadly confrontations involving federal agents in Idaho in 1992 and in Texas in 1993.

A member of the People’s United Mobile Armed Services, Dean said he also carries weapons more powerful than his firearms: a camera and the Internet. Those tools will document the plight of the Bundy ranch and bring the issue to light, he said. “I’m here to see it does happen differently.”

Serious bloodshed was narrowly avoided earlier in the day, when a BLM ranger shot Ammon Bundy, a son of Cliven Bundy, with a stun gun during a heated confrontation a few miles from the ranch house.

A YouTube video shows protesters and law enforcement officers yelling and threatening each other as trucks involved in the roundup attempt to drive through. The officers have stun guns drawn, and one is trying to push the crowd back with a barking dog on a leash.

Cheryl Teerlink, said Ammon Bundy was hit by a stun gun in his arm, chest and neck, but he shook off the first attempt to incapacitate him. “I pulled the tasers out of him,” Teerlink said.

Shortly before that, Cliven Bundy’s sister, Margaret Houston, was thrown to the ground by a BLM officer, Teerlink said.

The incident unfolded near the intersection of Gold Butte Road and state Route 170, where protesters gathered after they saw BLM vehicles coming down from the range.

The Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service released a statement confirming that one protester had been stunned. The agencies said the incident started when “a BLM truck driven by a non-law enforcement civilian employee assisting with gather operations was struck by a protester on an ATV, and the truck’s exit from the area was blocked by a group of individuals who gathered around the vehicle.”

According to the statement, peaceful protests have “crossed into illegal activity” in recent days, with people “blocking vehicles associated with the gather, impeding cattle movement, and making direct and overt threats to government employees.”

“These isolated actions that have jeopardized the safety of individuals have been responded to with appropriate law enforcement actions,” it said.

Federal law enforcement officers, also heavily armed, are providing tight security to contract cowboys from Utah who were hired by the government for almost $1 million to round up as many as 900 cattle that Bundy has left to roam on federal land despite not paying grazing fees for the past 20 years.

Two federal court orders issued within the past year called for the rancher’s livestock to be impounded from a vast swath of mountains and desert. That roundup began Saturday on almost 600,000 acres closed to the public during the operation.

As of Wednesday, 352 animals had been rounded up.

Gov. Brian Sandoval on Tuesday slammed the BLM for creating an “atmosphere of intimidation” and called on the agency to dismantle two “First Amendment areas” it set up for demonstrators well away from any roundup activity.

The former federal judge said he told the agency “that such conduct is offensive to me and countless others.”

“No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans,” the Republican governor said.

On Wednesday morning, before news broke of the scuffle between protesters and the BLM, Sen. Dean Heller, R-Nev., sent a statement expressing “great disappointment with the way that this situation is being handled.”

Heller said he spoke to newly confirmed BLM director Neil Kornze and “told him very clearly that law-abiding Nevadans must not be penalized by an over-reaching BLM.”

“After hearing from local officials and residents, and receiving feedback from the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association in a meeting this morning, I remain extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure,” Heller said. “I will continue to closely monitor this situation, and urge the BLM to make the necessary changes in order to preserve Nevadans’ constitutional rights.”

Kornze is a Nevada native who spent eight years as a senior policy adviser for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid before joining the BLM.

Reached for comment before Wednesday’s altercation between rangers and demonstrators, spokeswoman Kristen Orthman said: “Senator Reid hopes the trespassing cattle are rounded up safely so the issue can be resolved

For those of you not in the know:

Mormon-master-race rancher stopped paying rent for cattle grazing in 1990. Dude was finally given a eviction notice in 1999. Dude has had several days in court. Finally the Feds rounded up enough agents not to force him off the land, but to protect the cowboys hired to gather his cattle. Frothing at the mouth ensues.

Also:
Payne, 30, and Lardy, 49, both wore holstered handguns as they spoke, but they downplayed the display of firepower.

“We’re not anti-government,” said Lardy, who cuts firewood for a living.
What a winner and success at life..
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Korto »

Lonestar wrote:
Payne, 30, and Lardy, 49, both wore holstered handguns as they spoke, but they downplayed the display of firepower.

“We’re not anti-government,” said Lardy, who cuts firewood for a living.
What a winner and success at life..
My grandfather cut firewood. My uncle cut firewood. You got a fucking problem with people who work for a living? What about janitors, garbage men, labourers... You got a problem with them, too?
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by madd0ct0r »

apart from the pure snobbery lonestar, given this guy sounds like he values indpenpendence and the great outdoors, I suspect it's a job he chose to do.
Unlike when I was a logsplitter for my parents. there the choice was work or freeze.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Kitsune »

Looking at other sources, looks like he has been grazing cattle on federal land without the proper permits
I think they also wanted him to cut his herd from 1,000 to 150 due to stress on the environment.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Simon_Jester »

Well, arguably it's more like "hey, dude,* you've been grazing your cattle on my land for twenty-five years without paying me a dime of rent."

I mean, I'd honestly be more sympathetic if this were a bunch of militia rallying around the equivalent of, say, the Branch Davidians; even though that's lawless I can at least imagine the state of mind required to think such a group is being unjustly persecuted.

This guy? The only thing he can complain is that he's been fighting legal battles for fifteen years... because he's been committing the crime for fifteen years! What are these guys going to defend next, some clerk accused of stealing office supplies?

*For original value of word 'dude' if you really want a studied if improbable insult...
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Lonestar »

Korto wrote: What about janitors, garbage men, labourers... You got a problem with them, too?

I've been all three. How about you? As long as we're measuring our blue-collared bonafides.

Not while I was 50 years old though. And I certainly didn't take time off to go try to intimidate law enforcement in defense of someone who is being subsidized by the taxpayer and decided that even the pennies he had to pay for grazing usage was too much under the argument that it's "overreaching government".
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Korto »

Nuh, you don't get out of it that easy. It doesn't matter what you did, and it doesn't matter what I did. What matters is that what you said denigrates every single person who works cutting firewood for a living, everywhere in the fucking world, just because it doesn't reach YOUR standards of what a person should be doing for paid work. Don't try re-writing history. You cut out and bolded his job, in order to hold it up for sneering and general derision.
Now, my grandfather was a decent, moral, kind man, played a mean hand of rummy, raised four boys and a girl, was a decent backyard mechanic and he cut firewood for a living.
My uncle cut firewood, drove land-trains, trimmed hedges (including one hedge that he then wasn't paid for, so he went back that night to trim it again. With a chainsaw and three inches from the ground), he smoke, he drank, he gambled. He told me right off for what I said to my mother once when I was a teenager, and I deserved it, but he never hit me. He was scared of snakes, spiders, graveyards, and bees for Christ's sake, and my mother always said that if only he would write down his life, it would be amazing, but he wasn't one much for writing, my uncle.
But according to you, they both, and anyone else like them, are just failures. Whatever they've done in their lives doesn't matter, they work in a low, menial job, so they are failures.

Lardy might be an idiot, but that's got nothing to do with his job.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Lagmonster »

Fuck this guy. He should lose his cattle, and face a stiff fine. Anyone who tries to interfere should be arrested. This isn't the goddamn wild west. No responsible herd manager should think he can say, "fuck it, I'll graze my herds anywhere and anywhen I damn well please". That kind of attitude basically pisses on concepts of responsible and sustainable land management.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Borgholio »

As I understand it from reading interviews with his neighbors, even THEY don't like him. Most of the stories they tell talk about him freeloading on other people's land too, herding his cattle too close to the highway and causing accidents, and things like that. They all pretty much agree he's a freeloader and are glad the Feds are finally taking steps to reign him in.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Patroklos »

Lonestar wrote:
Korto wrote: What about janitors, garbage men, labourers... You got a problem with them, too?
I hope this is not a reference to your Navy time...
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by SCRawl »

Korto, Lonestar, and anyone else who wants to discuss the whole "cuts firewood for a living" issue, you may feel free to do so in a different thread. That is not an issue central to this discussion, and holding the "firewood" discussion here will just cause this thread to be derailed.

Edit: two of Lonestar's posts deleted, at his request
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

The standoff ended yesterday. BLM decided to halt their operation and withdraw.

Here's an example of how dangerous the situation was becoming. This picture shows two militia members acting as a sniper and spotter team. In the background are BLM agents...

Image
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Purple »

So what does this mean? Did he win?
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Yeah basically...
The feds decided that it was going to be too much trouble to push it, since the would have killed a LOT of people if gunfire was exchanged.
And his supports are all crowing how this shows that "The 2nd Amendment" ensures that the "little guy" can successfully stand up to the big evil Gobernent!!!
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by loomer »

It also means we can expect a lot more trouble from the militias in the next few months since they'll be high on their hype.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Purple »

And what will be the end result of this?
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

It depends on how many other "Confrontation" flash points there.
The militia groups can strut around on their compounds to their hearts content crowing about giving the Big Evil Government a black eye, or something. And no one will give a fuck.

The questions is how many other places are there like this, will the militia movement will be brought into direct confrontation with the Feds.
At SOME points sooner or later, there going to screw up and open fire, and a LOT of people will probably die.

As far as this outcome, while I don't like the fact that this dead beat "Got away with it" as far as not paying his due taxes... Considering what was at stake, this matt have been the best outcome.. Imagine if the Feds had pushed and shots HAD been fired, I'm sure the Right wing would have eaten him alive.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Broomstick »

Lagmonster wrote:Fuck this guy. He should lose his cattle, and face a stiff fine. Anyone who tries to interfere should be arrested. This isn't the goddamn wild west. No responsible herd manager should think he can say, "fuck it, I'll graze my herds anywhere and anywhen I damn well please".
That basically IS the area of the "wild west" and the folks supporting this guy would like it to BE the "wild west" because they think they'd be on top in such a situation. Which, given their supply of guns, might even be the case.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Purple »

Am I the only one who sees the situation at hand as being horribly wrong to the point of undermining the authority of your government completely and sees no way out of it at all that would be applicable to a modern society?
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Broomstick »

Nope, you're not the only one.

The whole militia movement thing is a symptom of the Federal government having diminished authority which is exactly what some Americans want. The starve-government-until-you-can-drown-it-in-a-bathtub crowd, to be more precise. This goes back to before Waco and the bombing of the Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma City.

The end result is that at some point the Feds will stop backing down and a lot of people will get killed.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Steel »

This is just baffling. I presume that something will happen in response over the coming days or weeks, as I cannot believe that the government will just walk away and accept that pockets of the country can become a little somalia at any time.

Is it absolutely ok and there are no repercussions to pointing a gun at people and threatening to shoot them? At the absolute least I would expect that sniper in the picture to get a swat team busting down the door to his trailer(/hut/wealthy fathers mansion) when he goes home.

I was always under the impression that if someone was breaking the law in the US and attempted to use force to resist legitimate agents of the law from enforcing those laws then they would be met with unlimited force. Presumably if he had a field of weed growing instead of unpaid cattle grazing and this standoff occurred then there would be tanks rolling in already?
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Welf »

Broomstick wrote:Nope, you're not the only one.

The whole militia movement thing is a symptom of the Federal government having diminished authority which is exactly what some Americans want. The starve-government-until-you-can-drown-it-in-a-bathtub crowd, to be more precise. This goes back to before Waco and the bombing of the Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma City.

The end result is that at some point the Feds will stop backing down and a lot of people will get killed.
In the best case scenario. In the worst case scenario they give up and you get ruled by local militia.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Zwinmar »

We live in an age of black bags over peoples heads as they disappear. I could easily see these people getting labeled terrorists and just disappear.
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Welf »

Yeah. So one alternative fucking sucks, the other one fucking sucks slightly more. What happened to "better tomorrow"? :(
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Re: Standoff in Nevada as Militias "mobilize" to support ran

Post by Irbis »

Funny that, apparently these days 'law abiding citizens' are people who openly flout the law in loudest possible way while at once breaking other laws and making their country laughing stock of rest of the world. But then again, it's nice, round 30 year anniversary of 1984, so it's only fitting.

I expect USA to find the comma in second amendment and/or hand out several mass Darwin Award prizes soon. School shootings are one thing, but no one will defy Invincible Workers-Peasants Re... oops, I mean IRS :wink:
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