Free speech wanker says free speech is good, except...

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mr friendly guy
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Free speech wanker says free speech is good, except...

Post by mr friendly guy »

When its used to make fun of him

Chris Kenny is a journalist who points out Rupert Murdoch is news corp is an unbiased news organisation while the Australian Broadcasting Corporation is left wing and should be shut down.

Now recently in Australia there are proposals to modify our Hate speech laws in particular reference to the racial discrimination act.

Here is Kenny's opinion piece on the issue and I have quoted the pertinent parts.
Most Australians would agree the Egyptian government is exerting brutish force in order to control the flow of information, restrict media access and shape the public version of events.

Journalists, politicians, academics and members of the public from all walks of life and all political allegiances have argued that Greste and his colleagues should be freed.

They are right. The issue at stake is freedom of expression.

At the same time in a case much less personally pressing but nonetheless more important to the free expression of ideas in this country, Tony Abbott and his Attorney-General, George Brandis, have unveiled a plan to moderate an existing restriction on free speech.

Yet most of the media, and much of the political class, have railed against it.

Labor and the Greens, as well as some vertebrae-challenged elements of the Liberal Party, oppose the proposed changes to the RDA declaring, effectively, that we need the government to control what sort of speech is allowable.

The differences between the Greste case and the RDA changes are vast, and I don’t want to labour the comparison.

But the principle that links them is undeniable.

Free speech is important. It is the most fundamental right; forming the very foundation of the democratic society that underpins all the freedom and prosperity we enjoy.

Yet many of the people who protest for Greste actively argue against freer speech on racial issues here.

The political and media critics – ever willing to trivialise the side of the debate they disagree with – have made hay out of Brandis’s declaration that people have the “right to be a bigot”.

Yet for all the clumsiness of that line, which was easily misinterpreted as endorsing bigotry, the point the Attorney was making is true and important.
So I guess if bigots have the right to be bigots, satirists can have the right to be satirists as well and make fun of Chris Kenny too right? Right?

Well, maybe not.

linky
ABC boss Mark Scott apologises to The Australian’s Chris Kenny over Chaser skit depicting him having sex with a dog

THE Managing Director of the ABC has apologised to The Australian columnist Chris Kenny for a Chaser team skit that depicted him having sex with a dog.

<snip>

Mr Kenny started defamation proceedings against the ABC, Chaser presenter Andrew Hansen and production company Giant Dwarf after they refused to apologise for the skit was broadcast on The Hamster Decides in September last year.
Well some of the Chaser team weren't gutless like the ABC director and here was their response. (Click on the link above to see the pics).
Chaser member Julian Morrow responded to Mr Scott’s apology on Twitter.

Morrow, executive producer on The Hamster Decides, tweeted an image of Mr Scott having sex with a hamster.
1. When one talks up free speech and lets those who disagree with him have their say, they are a free speech advocate. When one talks up free speech for himself but demands others moderate it, without once seeing the blatant hypocrisy, then he is a free speech wanker. Kenny falls into that category.

2. Time and time again, those particularly on the Right who claim "I may not agree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it," really mean "I will defend your right to say it, only if I don't find it too offensive."

3. The Chaser utilises these type of skits before (once to mock the gay marriage leads to bestiality claim for example) and I wouldn't have remembered this if Kenny didn't bring it up. The funniest thing about this episode, is not the bestiality jokes against Kenny. Its his blatant hypocrisy. Patrick Deagan was right. Sometimes the comedy just writes itself.
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Grumman
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Re: Free speech wanker says free speech is good, except...

Post by Grumman »

I think you're wrong on this, Mr. Friendly. It is not hypocritical to support law against slander and libel but oppose law against hate speech. For example, while I feel that Holocaust deniers are stupid assholes, I do not support laws forbidding them from making their stupid assholery known. I do support laws forbidding people using lies as a weapon to unjustly damage someone's reputation.
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Re: Free speech wanker says free speech is good, except...

Post by Alkaloid »

Except you have it arse backwards. The guys being stupid arseholes (or hilarious, depending) are the ones photoshopping pictures of him fucking a dog. He is the guy defending the repeal of a law that stops things like newspaper columnists claiming members of the indigenous community are not, in fact, indigenous because he doesn't think they look black enough. (Note the law being abolished comes complete with a provision that would allow this to be published if there was actually evidence supporting the claim)
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slebetman
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Re: Free speech wanker says free speech is good, except...

Post by slebetman »

Grumman: Parody and insult are neither slanderous nor libelious. Now, if someone were to actually claim that the guy actually fucked a dog when in reality he didn't then that would be slander or libel. But calling someone a dogfucker is merely an insult.
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mr friendly guy
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Re: Free speech wanker says free speech is good, except...

Post by mr friendly guy »

Grumman wrote:I think you're wrong on this, Mr. Friendly. It is not hypocritical to support law against slander and libel but oppose law against hate speech. For example, while I feel that Holocaust deniers are stupid assholes, I do not support laws forbidding them from making their stupid assholery known. I do support laws forbidding people using lies as a weapon to unjustly damage someone's reputation.
Since you aren't Australian I can overlook the fact that you might not be aware that the Chaser is a well known comedy group. The one that is famous or infamous depending on how you look at it for crashing APEC with one of their members dressed like Osama Bin Laden.

No one seriously thinks a comedy team making a skit about some wanker having sexual relationship with an animal is claiming he did it in real life. Now if the Chaser were a current affairs show, he might have a point. Going on, he is using defamation laws to try and silence people insulting him. Yet he sees nothing hypocritical in wanting to weaken hate speech laws which try and prevent people doing the same thing based on race.

This just once again shows the hypocrisy of "freedom of speech" types.
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Re: Free speech wanker says free speech is good, except...

Post by Metahive »

Grumman wrote:I think you're wrong on this, Mr. Friendly. It is not hypocritical to support law against slander and libel but oppose law against hate speech. For example, while I feel that Holocaust deniers are stupid assholes, I do not support laws forbidding them from making their stupid assholery known. I do support laws forbidding people using lies as a weapon to unjustly damage someone's reputation.
Wouldn't Holocaust Denial be slander and libel against its victims?
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Re: Free speech wanker says free speech is good, except...

Post by Thanas »

Yes, but almost all of the victims are dead so the only thing you can protect then is their good public image and memory, which is a bit harder to pull off. After all, most of hate speech laws are tailored because they want to prevent harm coming to people based on lies, but the dead obviously are beyond caring about that. Then it switches to their descendants and the good public memory of the deceased which is not protected on the same level. Part of the reason why we have extra special laws protecting the holocaust memory iirc.

EDIT: A few extreme examples: If I say X is a pedophile and has raped a boy yesterday, it is easy to see how X might suffer mob violence or at the very least negative consequences.
If I say X's grandparents were not murdered at Auschwitz, the level of harm is much lower and there might not even be any negative consequences with X, as I doubt his daily life depends on whether his grandparents were killed or not.
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Re: Free speech wanker says free speech is good, except...

Post by Metahive »

I agree it's different when the victim is death but at the same I don't see the sharp, categorical divide that Grumman's been implying.
People at birth are naturally good. Their natures are similar, but their habits make them different from each other.
-Sanzi Jing (Three Character Classic)

Saddam’s crime was so bad we literally spent decades looking for our dropped monocles before we could harumph up the gumption to address it
-User Indigo Jump on Pharyngula

O God, please don't let me die today, tomorrow would be so much better!
-Traditional Spathi morning prayer
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