South Korean ferry sinks. Nearly 300 passengers missing.

[Thanas]

He only ordered the crew off but not the passengers? there better be an indictment for murder incoming....

Also, where the hell were he or the other officers when he entrusted the wheel to a newbie?

And bigger question: Who the flying seal ever approves such modifications to the ship in the first place? Don't they have a regulatory agency?

[Sea Skimmer]

They do have an agency for this, its conceivable the ship still met the letter of the law, but with absolutely no margins left over the original safe design. It's also conceivable that the law or whomever checked the calculations did not account for RO-RO cargo shifts or worst case loading scenarios.

The ship carries and was carrying containers stacked to the main deck level in the forward hold. Nobody on earth weighs shipping containers before loading them, everyone relies on the people using them to supply accurate weights but they often don't. Naturally you want the heavier ones of the bottom, and if that isn't the case, it could have taken a zero margin ship into negative territory. Everyone lies about container weights, and its a suspect cause of structural problems in a couple of ships recently, but in a ship with margins, it shouldn't be enough to cause capsizing. At least not in a flat bloody calm!

A RO-RO ferry though makes it all the worse because the vehicles are not secured, and so already present a major cargo shifting hazard at all times. Regulations may or may not take this hazard into account, I have no idea in the ROK or the US, but its certainly going to become a much much more serious issue when you go and put 240 metric tons into the superstructure of a ship.

[Broomstick]

Calling the South Koreans stupid is starting to look really reasonable right now,..."

Excuse me - the way you said "South Koreans are stupid" is offensive to me and I'm not even Korean. You can't indite an entire nation for the stupidity of one boat crew or one ferry operator unless you can establish this sort of negligence is somehow typical of Korean sailors and boats, which you have not. Clearly the Koreans don't think it's acceptable, that's why the captain and some of the rest of the crew are under arrest and facing charges.

[Exonerate]

It's now being reported that the ferry was severely overloaded, carrying 3608 (!!!) tons of cargo when it was rated for 987 tons. The sister ship was seized and its life rafts were tested and found to be not working. The ship was being operated despite a request steering gear repairs; crew testified that the ship oversteered when they tried to make a turn, which was what started the ship tipping over. Money spent on safety training for the crew appears to be marginal as well. On top of that, there's now an investigation into the possibility of bribed officials. This wasn't a freak accident, this was a result of sustained systematic negligence - with how they operated, something like this was only a matter of time.

[Thanas]

In that case, the whole company leadership better get indicted.

[Borgholio]

Heard on the radio this morning that the divers might be getting counseling when this is all over. They're finding staterooms stuffed full of children...

[Guardsman Bass]

It's now being reported that the ferry was severely overloaded, carrying 3608 (!!!) tons of cargo when it was rated for 987 tons. The sister ship was seized and its life rafts were tested and found to be not working. The ship was being operated despite a request steering gear repairs; crew testified that the ship oversteered when they tried to make a turn, which was what started the ship tipping over. Money spent on safety training for the crew appears to be marginal as well. On top of that, there's now an investigation into the possibility of bribed officials. This wasn't a freak accident, this was a result of sustained systematic negligence - with how they operated, something like this was only a matter of time.

This New York Times article on it mentions that the Korean regulatory body on shipping is more or less an arm of the South Korean shipping industry:

. . . .

Experts say they suspect some of the problems with the ship resulted from lax enforcement of safety standards made possible by ties among the Ministry of Oceans and Fisheries, the Korea Shipping Association and shipping companies.

The shipping association is a lobby for shipping companies and is financed by them. But it is also charged with inspecting ships for safety measures, such as a proper and balanced stowage of cargo. In addition, many senior officials from the ministry — which is supposed to oversee the association’s enforcement — also join the association after they retire.

The rest of the article is about the issue of safety problems in South Korea, and I can't vouch for that (although it says that South Korea has the highest rate of safety accidents among "major developed nations").

[Broomstick]

It was expected that they would encounter hundreds of teen age corpses, but of course the reality of it has to be horrifying for anyone with normal emotions.

The evidence of systematic problems at the ferry company is just as disturbing, and if there has been widespread bribery it leaves open the possibility this problem is far more widespread than just one ferry company. Corruption kills.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I have to wonder that given the conditions the divers are working under, whether it would be easier/safer to retrieve the bodies once the ship has been raised?

[Broomstick]

From CNN:

Jindo, South Korea (CNN) -- Fisherman Kim Hyun-ho finds no peace when he lies down at night. The hundreds of dead or missing passengers from the Sewol ferry disaster haunt his sleep.

Their screams ring in his head. He has vivid memories of his rush to save them in his modest fishing boat off South Korea's coast 10 days ago.

Kim thinks he may have pulled 25 people from the frigid waters of the Yellow Sea, said Saturday. But the man from a nearby tiny island of just 100 people feels no pride, only torment.

"It was hell. Agonizing. There were a lot of people and not enough boats, people in the water yelling for help. The ferry was sinking fast," he said.

He watched people trapped inside go under with the vessel yards in front of him. Then he heard on television how many people were sealed up in the ship.

So far, rescuers have retrieved 187 bodies. An additional 115 people remain missing.

The father of two grown children is heartbroken for the hundreds of parents who have lost theirs, those he could not save.

He's trying to fish again, but he's a changed man, he says.

Reprieve from watery terror

Divers recovering bodies from inside the upended ferry, inundated with murky water, got a brief reprieve Saturday from the horrors they've seen in its dark, cavernous entrails.

Strong currents led the joint task force to suspend Saturday's dives for at least four hours.

On Friday, they found the bodies of 48 girls -- wearing their life jackets -- pressed into a room too small for so many people.

Divers believe that they will face the same scene again. There may be a second, similar room, where 50 more girls are believed to have been trapped when the ferry rolled over.

South Korean Coast Guard diver Kim Dong-soo said he had tears in his eyes when he heard about the accident.

"Even now, I'm searching as if I'm looking for my own children -- and other Coast Guards feel the same way," he told CNN. "I have two medical patches on me, have difficulty breathing and my head hurts. But it hurts the most in my heart, knowing those children are still in the cold water."

When they plunge into the water again later Saturday, five U.S. Navy rescue specialists will assist their search in a supporting role from outside the search zone.

The divers will face a search that is getting harder and slower.

There may be fewer bodies to retrieve, but divers have already searched the easily accessible places, said South Korean navy Capt. Kim Jin-hwang, commander of the rescue operation.

"But the navy will not stop until the last body is found," he said.

Now they will head down deep for cabins near the seabed.

In the cramped spaces, divers have been battling a forest of floating objects and doors forced shut by enormous water pressure. Currents tug at the breathing tubes that keep them alive as they look for the dead.

Civilian diver Chun Kwan-geung, one of the many rescuers working in the murky waters, spoke of breaking out windows to get to the lower decks of the ship, which now lies on its right side on the seafloor some 240 feet below the surface.

Legal ramifications

As the effort inside the ship continues, South Korean authorities are pressing a criminal investigation into the sinking.

It's resulted in the arrests of the ship's captain and 14 other members. Prosecutors in Mokpo, South Korea, who are leading the ferry investigation tell CNN that all the 15 crew members in charge of sailing and the engine room have been indicted and are being held in the Mokpo Prison.

Yang Joong-Jin, the senior prosecutor for the investigation task force, said they all face charges of "causing death by abandoning (ship), and violation of the country's marine law, the Rescue and Aid at Sea and in the River Act.

Investigators also searched the company that owned the ferry and the home of the man whose family controls it, and conducted a wide-ranging probe into the country's marine industry.

Prosecutors have said that authorities have yet to determine what caused the sinking.

Leading theories include changes made to increase the ferry's passenger capacity and shifting cargo.

On Friday, investigators checked out the Sewol's sister ship, the Ohamana, and said they found 40 of its life rafts weren't working, emergency slides to help evacuate passengers were inoperable, and equipment to tie down cars and cargo either was nonexistent or didn't work very well.

Like the Sewol, the Ohamana had been modified to add more passengers, the prosecutor's office said.

Investigators are looking into whether those modifications could have contributed to the Sewol's fate.

Kim Yong-rok, an opposition lawmaker who represents Jindo, an island near where the ship sank, told CNN that modifications to add 117 more passenger cabins to the ship raised the ferry's center of gravity.

On Friday, the South Korean Ministry of Oceans and Fisheries announced it would ask lawmakers to consider legislation prohibiting modifications to ships to increase passenger capacity.

I've read in a couple of other accounts that the bodies being retrieved have broken fingers and other damage to their hands indicating that in their last minutes the kids tried to literally claw their way out of the ferry. You know, when a vehicle proprietor/operator does everything right and there's a tremendous loss of life that's horrific enough, but with all the indications of illegal modifications, bribery, neglect of rules, and disregard for safety it just makes me sick.

Kim Hyun-ho is a real hero, I just wish he wasn't in such pain over the ones he could not save. If you watch the video at the link he clearly rushes in without thought for himself to save as many as he can. The world needs more people with that sort of bravery and selflessness.

[Broomstick]

It's now being reported that the prime minster has resigned over this accident.

[Mr. Coffee]

Holy fucking shit...

I'm sorry if this comes across as a +1, but goddamn. If it wasn't so goddamn horrifying I'd probably laugh, but as it is I'm actually shuddering a bit and giggling, which is never good. It's fucking sad that all those kids died, but the level of incompetence is comical and, apparently, sweeping in scope from the crew right up to the very government officials responsible for these ships all the way to the fucktard that appointed those previously mentioned dickless wonders.

Also, am I the only person that wondered at first if North Korea had something to do with it? Not saying they did, I'm just commenting on how shitty that part of the globe really is when you break it down Barney Style.

[Ralin]

Also, am I the only person that wondered at first if North Korea had something to do with it? Not saying they did, I'm just commenting on how shitty that part of the globe really is when you break it down Barney Style.

Haven't been keeping track of this until I read the thread just now, but no, I'm pretty sure that's something that most people think when they hear about this sort of thing. Including the actual South Koreans.

[Irbis]

Also, am I the only person that wondered at first if North Korea had something to do with it? Not saying they did, I'm just commenting on how shitty that part of the globe really is when you break it down Barney Style.

Nah, if you have anyone to thank for it, it was saint Reagan/Thatcher and wonderful brain dead deregulation ideas. Wasn't the cause pretty much what they wanted? No stupid government limits and ship's owners maximizing its ability to rake in monies? Invisible hand of market fixing away all problems?

Heck, think of GNP growth caused by sudden spike of demand in burial services/articles! This makes it all worth in the end, man!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Somehow, I'm not the least surprised that again, in N. Asia, some regulatory authority is utterly married to the industry it is supposed to regulate. From Fukushima, to the corruption that emerged in Korea over the supervision of nuclear reactors to this, something has got to give from time to time.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Also, am I the only person that wondered at first if North Korea had something to do with it? Not saying they did, I'm just commenting on how shitty that part of the globe really is when you break it down Barney Style.

Nah, if you have anyone to thank for it, it was saint Reagan/Thatcher and wonderful brain dead deregulation ideas. Wasn't the cause pretty much what they wanted? No stupid government limits and ship's owners maximizing its ability to rake in monies? Invisible hand of market fixing away all problems?

Heck, think of GNP growth caused by sudden spike of demand in burial services/articles! This makes it all worth in the end, man!

No, those ideas do not exist there. The reason being that this has to be traced back to the support that the government gave to industry at the beginning.

N.E. Asia is particularly well known for the state directed capitalism, and the problems with regulation can be traced back to that old policy which has not died yet. Korea and Japan are pretty much Government Inc. China is almost there too.

[Siege]

It's now being reported that the prime minster has resigned over this accident.

South Korea has had 15 prime ministers since 2000. From what I understand their PM is a disposable flunkie whose sole job it is to fall on his sword so the president doesn't have to. Which explains why the president has now said she will accept his resignation only when the ferry disaster has been brought under control. He's not allowed to go down when there might still be more bullets coming that he's supposed to catch with his face.

[Broomstick]

Very interesting, I was not aware of that form of government structure.

[Irbis]

No, those ideas do not exist there. The reason being that this has to be traced back to the support that the government gave to industry at the beginning.

They still have roots in the same mentality, that people running business know best and they should set the regulations. Both have much more in common at the foundation than the model divorcing regulations from regulated and laws being written to achieve desired goal other than just 'make more money'.

N.E. Asia is particularly well known for the state directed capitalism, and the problems with regulation can be traced back to that old policy which has not died yet. Korea and Japan are pretty much Government Inc. China is almost there too.

It's still capitalism ran by the owners, without worker's voice. Even if it was different from Reaganomics, both actually reinforced and strenghtened each other, both promoting deregulation. At least as seen from Europe - 90s were one big "we must deregulate because both Asians and Americans are doing so".

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

They still have roots in the same mentality, that people running business know best and they should set the regulations. Both have much more in common at the foundation than the model divorcing regulations from regulated and laws being written to achieve desired goal other than just 'make more money'.

Not really. The mentality here is more tribal in nature. Asian culture is more about helping your "friends" than the issue of "who is best about regulating something".

It's still capitalism ran by the owners, without worker's voice. Even if it was different from Reaganomics, both actually reinforced and strenghtened each other, both promoting deregulation. At least as seen from Europe - 90s were one big "we must deregulate because both Asians and Americans are doing so".

You have to first and foremost understand that in Asia, relationships first, ideology second. The culture is rigged that way. No one is going to give a rat's ass about ideology so long as there's money to be made. Just look how fast Chinese "communism" got ditched when they decided to revive their mercantile class (which never quite died anyway).

[PainRack]

Not really. The mentality here is more tribal in nature. Asian culture is more about helping your "friends" than the issue of "who is best about regulating something".

Did you sleep through the entire 90s and the banking deregulation reforms, as well as the AFC where the IMF stepped in to deregulate the Zaibatsu and etc?


You ARE right when you said its a different form of ideology, of a wink wink, old boys club nature, but the 90s deregulation of industry was DRIVEN by that said nepotism, government in bed with industry cultural attitude. Liberalise banks? Sure why not? Its owned by my cousin anyway.......

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Not really. The mentality here is more tribal in nature. Asian culture is more about helping your "friends" than the issue of "who is best about regulating something".

Did you sleep through the entire 90s and the banking deregulation reforms, as well as the AFC where the IMF stepped in to deregulate the Zaibatsu and etc?

I assume you are referring to the chaebol rather than zaibatsu since Japan has never been under the thumb of the IMF. S. Korean reform of the chaebol is rather debatable though. In some ways, nothing has really changed, just that everyone now stock piles lots of cash for a rainy day. Heck, they let out the former leader of Samsung out of jail on the premise of "good behaviour".

You ARE right when you said its a different form of ideology, of a wink wink, old boys club nature, but the 90s deregulation of industry was DRIVEN by that said nepotism, government in bed with industry cultural attitude. Liberalise banks? Sure why not? Its owned by my cousin anyway.......

What do you mean by "liberalism"? IMF led liberalism where the state should divest itself of rotten banks, or state led liberalism where everyone lent everyone and then shit hit the fan when no one could pay anyone anything?

[mr friendly guy]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/s ... ad/5434220

South Korean diver dies during ferry search operation
Posted 4 hours 16 minutes ago

A South Korean diver enters the water near floats where the capsized passenger ship Sewol sank.
PHOTO: Divers have been part of search and rescue operations since the Sewol ferry sank in the sea off Jindo on April 21, 2014. (Reuters: Kim Hong-Ji )
RELATED STORY: South Korea divers struggle to open blocked ferry cabinsRELATED STORY: Fears South Korea ferry victims may never be recovered
MAP: Korea, Republic Of
A diver has lost consciousness and died during a search operation for victims still missing after last month's South Korean ferry disaster.

The diver lost radio contact five minutes after attempting to fix guideline ropes on the fifth deck of the sunken ferry, said Ko Myung-seok, spokesman for the government's emergency task force.

He was unable to breathe by himself when he was brought to the surface, and his death was later confirmed at a hospital.

The dead man had been working for Undine Marine Industries, the company brought in to lead search efforts.

The Sewol ferry capsized and sank about 20 kilometres off the southwest coast of South Korea on April 16 with 476 passengers and crew on board.

Among the passengers were 339 children and teachers on a high school outing to the southern island of Jeju.

Only 174 people have been rescued. The confirmed death toll is 263, with 39 still missing.

Investigation ongoing

Amid rising indignation over the government's handling of the disaster, South Korean President Park Geun-hye has voiced criticism of the role played by the ferry operator and government officials.

"Safety rules that must be observed were not followed... and irresponsible acts that tolerated those injustices have resulted in death," Ms Park said in Seoul on Tuesday.

She promised to fundamentally change national policies and systems to improve safety and to clean up malpractices to ensure businesses and government officials comply with requirements.

Ms Park visited the families of the ferry victims on Sunday in Paengmok port in Jindo for the second time since the tragedy.

On Monday her approval rating slipped to 53 per cent, 12 per cent down for the two weeks after the disaster, according to Seoul-based polling company Realmeter.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Wait till they start investigating the recent train crash. I wonder if Park can remain in office if another corruption scandal turns up.

[Sky Captain]

I wonder why they continue to send divers into such highly risky environment? There is zero probability of finding survivors after such long time. Dead bodies can be retrieved when ship is lifted out of the water with little risk to human life.