How does the new Star Wars Canon affect the debate?

[malguslover]

Going from the definition you posted to support yourself, you're using "a component of a reaction" as opposed to "chemical elemnt on the periodic table." The fact that I have to explain this to someone who apparently did a BSc in nuclear technology is not a good sign for you.

that's not a definition of element. That's saying that Elements are also components of reactions which is also true.

[malguslover]

Mandalore and the other planets I listed are all cases that if planetary shields did exist they would have used them.

I quoted your own exact words, spelling mistakes and all, saying that Mandalore not having a shield was proof they didn't exist. You then went on to explain that Mandalore is an advanced planet with a (former) warrior culture, so they should be able to build one, but because they don't they don't exist.

You are being really dishonest here.

Is your name Holyknightvader?

[Xess]

if you look at the 4th 5th and 6th pic the effect that is being called the planetary shield is still there. In fact its there all the way until the destrcution

Why would that be? If the Death star already has punched through the shield why is the shield glowin as if its being hit and holding?

To me its clear that the planet is beng super heated from all the thermal energy being pumped into it

Once you hit pic 6 I agree that it is the planet since there is debris escaping the impact site, before that there is no debris which says to me that the planet hasn't yet been struck.

EDIT: There is also no reason to assume that all the shield generators are instantly destroyed by a shield breach and so some shield effect could linger on.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Going from the definition you posted to support yourself, you're using "a component of a reaction" as opposed to "chemical elemnt on the periodic table." The fact that I have to explain this to someone who apparently did a BSc in nuclear technology is not a good sign for you.

that's not a definition of element. That's saying that Elements are also components of reactions which is also true.

You still ignore the fact that I had to explain that "element" in a physics context meant "elemnt on the periodic table.

Is your name Holyknightvader?

How about you actually address my point rather than spout non sequiturs for once?

[malguslover]

if you look at the 4th 5th and 6th pic the effect that is being called the planetary shield is still there. In fact its there all the way until the destrcution

Why would that be? If the Death star already has punched through the shield why is the shield glowin as if its being hit and holding?

To me its clear that the planet is beng super heated from all the thermal energy being pumped into it

Once you hit pic 6 I agree that it is the planet since there is debris escaping the impact site, before that there is no debris which says to me that the planet hasn't yet been struck.

why would there be debris right away? It's got to fly up and escape the atmosphere and continue this happens in the span of less then 1 sec its about right.

[Borgholio]

As I noted a few pages back, Hoth has a theatre shield. This is a very important point. Hoth is a backwater shithole in the middle of nowhere. Even Tatooine is more important. That's how worthless Hoth is. And guess what? Hoth has a shield so powerful, it can protect a sizable portion of the planet from an entire fleet of Star Destroyers. This is proof that powerful shields exist. True, it is not a full planetary shield, but if an under-funded and poorly equipped group of rebels can put up something like that, then why can't a wealthy, advanced, important core world like Alderaan have something appropriately bigger and better like a full planetary shield? Why doesn't Mandalore have one? Who knows. It's a reasonable assumption that they could if they really wanted to.

[malguslover]

Going from the definition you posted to support yourself, you're using "a component of a reaction" as opposed to "chemical elemnt on the periodic table." The fact that I have to explain this to someone who apparently did a BSc in nuclear technology is not a good sign for you.

that's not a definition of element. That's saying that Elements are also components of reactions which is also true.

You still ignore the fact that I had to explain that "element" in a physics context meant "elemnt on the periodic table.

Is your name Holyknightvader?

How about you actually address my point rather than spout non sequiturs for once?

You had to explain it because i couldn't believe that someone would think that Element was being used in a different context. Turns out you just didn't understand that component of a reaction isn't a definition.

Because what I said wasn't a logic statement about mandalore its called Hyperbole an exaggeration to make a point.

[Eternal_Freedom]

As I noted a few pages back, Hoth has a theatre shield. This is a very important point. Hoth is a backwater shithole in the middle of nowhere. Even Tatooine is more important. That's how worthless Hoth is. And guess what? Hoth has a shield so powerful, it can protect a sizable portion of the planet from an entire fleet of Star Destroyers. This is proof that powerful shields exist. True, it is not a full planetary shield, but if an under-funded and poorly equipped group of rebels can put up something like that, then why can't a wealthy, advanced, important core world like Alderaan have something appropriately bigger and better like a full planetary shield? Why doesn't Mandalore have one? Who knows. It's a reasonable assumption that they could if they really wanted to.

Is it possible that the Mandalorian "warrior culture" frowns on planetary shields, believing that the best defence is ships and mean counter-attacking rather than cowering under a shield? It's something I can see happening.

[Eternal_Freedom]

You had to explain it because i couldn't believe that someone would think that Element was being used in a different context. Turns out you just didn't understand that component of a reaction isn't a definition.

Because what I said wasn't a logic statement about mandalore its called Hyperbole an exaggeration to make a point.

So you concede it wasn't a logical statement, good, that means we can ignore it.

As for your disbelief that I would use "element" in that context, well, you're clearly either trolling or just dumb, since my use of that definition in context was clearly understood by the other posters in this debate. Only you had a problem with it. Does that not suggest that you might be in the wrong?

[malguslover]

As I noted a few pages back, Hoth has a theatre shield. This is a very important point. Hoth is a backwater shithole in the middle of nowhere. Even Tatooine is more important. That's how worthless Hoth is. And guess what? Hoth has a shield so powerful, it can protect a sizable portion of the planet from an entire fleet of Star Destroyers. This is proof that powerful shields exist. True, it is not a full planetary shield, but if an under-funded and poorly equipped group of rebels can put up something like that, then why can't a wealthy, advanced, important core world like Alderaan have something appropriately bigger and better like a full planetary shield? Why doesn't Mandalore have one? Who knows. It's a reasonable assumption that they could if they really wanted to.

Hoth did have a deflector shield that the rebels brought with them. They did it because well motherfucking imperials be all up in their shit.

No it couldn't protect a sizable part of the planet. Remember the AT-ATs had to land outside of the shield. We see that it wasn't that far. Maybe a square mile or two at most. Still with the Walkers within Visible range.

I agree that it's reasonable for Mandalore to have one. In fact i would say its an absolute nessity to have if they existed. But they are taken over. So are all the other planets that should have planetary shields. But not a single one of them does.

So if planetary shields exist how come no one has them?

[malguslover]

You had to explain it because i couldn't believe that someone would think that Element was being used in a different context. Turns out you just didn't understand that component of a reaction isn't a definition.

Because what I said wasn't a logic statement about mandalore its called Hyperbole an exaggeration to make a point.

So you concede it wasn't a logical statement, good, that means we can ignore it.

As for your disbelief that I would use "element" in that context, well, you're clearly either trolling or just dumb, since my use of that definition in context was clearly understood by the other posters in this debate. Only you had a problem with it. Does that not suggest that you might be in the wrong?

facepalm.... do you not understand what hyperoble is? I never said it wasn't a logical statement i said it wasn't a logic statement. Do you understand the difference?

No my problem with you using the word element was that you said you were using it in terms of the periodic table. My problem was what other context would you use it in? I was dumbfounded that you would need to clerifiy that because the statement I used, used in the same sense.

Once agian though it looks like you are trying to create another logic fallicie

[Eternal_Freedom]

You had to explain it because i couldn't believe that someone would think that Element was being used in a different context. Turns out you just didn't understand that component of a reaction isn't a definition.

Because what I said wasn't a logic statement about mandalore its called Hyperbole an exaggeration to make a point.

So you concede it wasn't a logical statement, good, that means we can ignore it.

As for your disbelief that I would use "element" in that context, well, you're clearly either trolling or just dumb, since my use of that definition in context was clearly understood by the other posters in this debate. Only you had a problem with it. Does that not suggest that you might be in the wrong?

facepalm.... do you not understand what hyperoble is? I never said it wasn't a logical statement i said it wasn't a logic statement. Do you understand the difference?

No my problem with you using the word element was that you said you were using it in terms of the periodic table. My problem was what other context would you use it in? I was dumbfounded that you would need to clerifiy that because the statement I used, used in the same sense.

Once agian though it looks like you are trying to create another logic fallicie

You were talking about all the oxygen released during Alderaan's destruction allowing combustion. You also specifically referred to "and all the oxygen released by other elements." That quite clearly shows you were not using the correct "element on the periodic table" definition, since it is impossible for oxygen to be part of another element.

[Borgholio]

Context is important. If it was a planetary shield how come the effect doesn't go away when it breaks the planetary shield?

Why would that be? If the Death star already has punched through the shield why is the shield glowin as if its being hit and holding?

Who says the shield has to automatically fail across the entire planet if it is punctured in one section? Deflector shields typically have bleed through, where even if it's up and holding some energy can leak through. Given the titanic amount of power the Death Star can put out, it probably punched right through the shield at that one spot, while the rest of the shield tried to hold off as much energy as it could...not that it did much good.

No it couldn't protect a sizable part of the planet.

"What is it, General?"
"My Lord, the fleet has moved out of lightspeed. Com-scan has detected an energy field protecting an area of the 6th planet of the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment."

Clearly, it was a large enough portion of the planet that bombarding outside the shield area wouldn't affect the people inside the shield.

Remember the AT-ATs had to land outside of the shield. We see that it wasn't that far. Maybe a square mile or two at most. Still with the Walkers within Visible range.

You know how fucking big the walkers are? The rebels saw them coming over the horizon. That's 10 - 20 miles or more given how tall the walkers actually are. Then consider that it was a period of several hours between Vader giving the order to land troops and the time the walkers were sighted. They might have had to land 30 or 40 miles away for all we know! That area is way more than 1 or 2 square miles, try closer to 2,000 square miles. Now THAT qualifies as a sizable portion of the planet.

So if planetary shields exist how come no one has them?

Alderaan does.

[Batman]

A square mile or two. Seriously. The imperials land less than a thousand metres from the rebel base but yet need to travel for several minutes to get into firing range of the Rebel positions. Are you sure you watched the same Star Wars series the rest of humanity did?

[malguslover]

You were talking about all the oxygen released during Alderaan's destruction allowing combustion. You also specifically referred to "and all the oxygen released by other elements." That quite clearly shows you were not using the correct "element on the periodic table" definition, since it is impossible for oxygen to be part of another element.

ahh ha. you missread.

I didn't say oxygen released by other elements

I said

Remember a huge planet just exploded lots of oxygen and other elements

[Borgholio]

A square mile or two. Seriously. The imperials land less than a thousand metres from the rebel base but yet need to travel for several minutes to get into firing range of the Rebel positions. Are you sure you watched the same Star Wars series the rest of humanity did?

He is a horrible judge of distance. He says he was in the Navy? I hope to god nobody thought to put him on lookout...

[Eternal_Freedom]

A square mile or two. Seriously. The imperials land less than a thousand metres from the rebel base but yet need to travel for several minutes to get into firing range of the Rebel positions. Are you sure you watched the same Star Wars series the rest of humanity did?

Not to mention the AT-AT gunner clearly stating the range to target being 17.28 kilometres.

[malguslover]

A square mile or two. Seriously. The imperials land less than a thousand metres from the rebel base but yet need to travel for several minutes to get into firing range of the Rebel positions. Are you sure you watched the same Star Wars series the rest of humanity did?

The reason i say a few square miles is that they land inside of a mountain range. They couldn't have been farther out.

[Eternal_Freedom]

You were talking about all the oxygen released during Alderaan's destruction allowing combustion. You also specifically referred to "and all the oxygen released by other elements." That quite clearly shows you were not using the correct "element on the periodic table" definition, since it is impossible for oxygen to be part of another element.

ahh ha. you missread.

I didn't say oxygen released by other elements

I said

Remember a huge planet just exploded lots of oxygen and other elements

You lying sod. Here is exactly what you said:

Remember a huge planet just exploded lots of oxygen and other elements some elements that are oxidents which create their own oxygen when placed in high thermal situations.

Posted by you on page 5 of this thread on April 29th, 2014 at 1:13 am.

For emphasis: "some elements that are oxidents which create their own oxygen when placed in high thermal situations."

You have just demonstrated spectacularly dishonest debating. You have directly lied about what you yourself said.

[Borgholio]

The reason i say a few square miles is that they land inside of a mountain range. They couldn't have been farther out.

No they don't. They land outside the mountain range and walk in through an open plain / pass. Look at the area again. Mountains on both sides, smooth walking terrain up the front. They walk at least 10 miles probably more.

[malguslover]

A square mile or two. Seriously. The imperials land less than a thousand metres from the rebel base but yet need to travel for several minutes to get into firing range of the Rebel positions. Are you sure you watched the same Star Wars series the rest of humanity did?

Not to mention the AT-AT gunner clearly stating the range to target being 17.28 kilometres.

no he doesn't he says One-seven decimal two-eight.

There is no mention of meters or kilometers

do i get to call you a liar now and have dishonest debate tactics?

[Xess]

why would there be debris right away? It's got to fly up and escape the atmosphere and continue this happens in the span of less then 1 sec its about right.

The impact would have to send debris at 2400 km/s to get it 100km up in 1 frame. I see no problem with an event that produces enough energy to mass scatter a planet in under a second producing a plasma flare at the point of impact with a 2400 km/s average particle velocity.

Anyway, I've already stated that your conclusion is a rational one. It disagree with it for reasons I have already stated. Maybe in the new movies planetary shields will get a dialogue mention or obvious SFX depiction or an equally obvious denial of their existence. Until then we'll be disagreeing.

[Batman]

A square mile or two. Seriously. The imperials land less than a thousand metres from the rebel base but yet need to travel for several minutes to get into firing range of the Rebel positions. Are you sure you watched the same Star Wars series the rest of humanity did?

The reason i say a few square miles is that they land inside of a mountain range. They couldn't have been farther out.

Except that them landing in a mountain range (assuming they did, which given your continuous misrepresentation of canon I'm no longer willing to grant) doesn't say anything about how far from the Rebel Base they landed. But by all means prove me wrong. Show me the movie canon information as to how far from the Rebel base the Imperial troops landed.

[malguslover]

why would there be debris right away? It's got to fly up and escape the atmosphere and continue this happens in the span of less then 1 sec its about right.

The impact would have to send debris at 2400 km/s to get it 100km up in 1 frame. I see no problem with an event that produces enough energy to mass scatter a planet in under a second producing a plasma flare at the point of impact with a 2400 km/s average particle velocity.

Anyway, I've already stated that your conclusion is a rational one. It disagree with it for reasons I have already stated. Maybe in the new movies planetary shields will get a dialogue mention or obvious SFX depiction or an equally obvious denial of their existence. Until then we'll be disagreeing.

wouldn't any debris at the impact site be instantly vaporized? Any debris that did fly up would have to be away from the intense thermal energy of the main super laser

[Borgholio]

A square mile or two. Seriously. The imperials land less than a thousand metres from the rebel base but yet need to travel for several minutes to get into firing range of the Rebel positions. Are you sure you watched the same Star Wars series the rest of humanity did?

Not to mention the AT-AT gunner clearly stating the range to target being 17.28 kilometres.

no he doesn't he says One-seven decimal two-eight.

There is no mention of meters or kilometers

LOL Holy Shit. Now you're just grasping at straws. Meters are the standard units of measurement in the Star Wars universe. What else would he be counting out? Rods? Leagues? Cubits?

Edit - nice ninja edit by the way.