Post-Occupation Feddie Resistance

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-03-15 05:19pm

Phased cloaked starbases inside stars would be cool.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-03-15 11:50pm

Though you'd have to find some way to keep the star from turning your star base into phased plasma...

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-03-16 12:44am

I'd end up sending spies to learn about Imp tech, and also pirating shipments to get supplies and Imperial weapons.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-03-16 12:47am

darthdavid wrote:Though you'd have to find some way to keep the star from turning your star base into phased plasma...

That's what the phasing part of the cloak is for. I disagree with the theory that gases can interact with phased objects, since we don't see air flowing right out of the ship.

Or you could just use metaphasic shielding, but docking would be a problem.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-16 12:55am

Pu-239 wrote:
darthdavid wrote:Though you'd have to find some way to keep the star from turning your star base into phased plasma...
That's what the phasing part of the cloak is for. I disagree with the theory that gases can interact with phased objects, since we don't see air flowing right out of the ship.

The fact that gases can still interact with phased objects does not mean that they must be non-interactive to non-phased objects. Since a phase-cloaked ship still receives light, it will still be bombarded by stellar radiation.

Or you could just use metaphasic shielding, but docking would be a problem.

Metaphasic shielding would only last for a few minutes.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-03-16 01:06am

Darth Wong wrote:
Pu-239 wrote:
darthdavid wrote:Though you'd have to find some way to keep the star from turning your star base into phased plasma...
That's what the phasing part of the cloak is for. I disagree with the theory that gases can interact with phased objects, since we don't see air flowing right out of the ship.
The fact that gases can still interact with phased objects does not mean that they must be non-interactive to non-phased objects. Since a phase-cloaked ship still receives light, it will still be bombarded by stellar radiation.
Or you could just use metaphasic shielding, but docking would be a problem.
Metaphasic shielding would only last for a few minutes.

Why would it be bombarded by radiation? Wouldn't it just pass through?

Never watched TNG, wouldn't know.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-16 01:20am

You're screwed. After the veil of communism and brainwashing is lifted from the Federation and the elite ivory tower intellectuals are purged, the general populace will bath in the warm glow of capitalism and the sudden influx of rich, luxurious Imperial goods. Your guerilla movement would be severly hampered by your own populace's unwillingness to resist.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-16 01:45am

Pu-239 wrote:Why would it be bombarded by radiation? Wouldn't it just pass through?

There must be some interactivity, otherwise a cloaked person or ship would be completely blind.

Besides, in TNG's "The Next Phase", we saw that phase-cloaked people can breathe non-phased air and can see without assistance, although we can probably infer that the light level was being amplified for the viewer's benefit.

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2003-03-16 04:51am

I'd tak a ship, load it with as much Wars tech as I could...including schematics, history of the invasion, as well as working machines (droids, cannons, shield generators, computer cores, etc) and go warp10+ into a star to go back in time ala ST4:the Voyage Home...fuck the temporal prime directive. Make sure you bring future Trek tech (from Voyager), too; quantum torpedoes, Transwarp conduit tech, quantum slipstream drive, batmobile armor, super-duper borg-cube-bashin' torpedoes, and the phase-cloak, just for fun. I won't tell the Romulans if you won't.

Present the tech to the pre-invasion Federation Council, telling them they have only X number of decades to study, replicate, and upgrade Starfleet to engage the greatest conquering force in the universe.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-03-16 02:49pm

Present the tech to the pre-invasion Federation Council, telling them they have only X number of decades to study, replicate, and upgrade Starfleet to engage the greatest conquering force in the universe.

Only problem is that they would 'prepare' by briefing Picard on his upcoming First Contact situation and give him orders to avoid conflict at all costs.

Shogoki · Post by **Shogoki** » 2003-03-17 07:04pm

Enola Straight wrote:I'd tak a ship, load it with as much Wars tech as I could...including schematics, history of the invasion, as well as working machines (droids, cannons, shield generators, computer cores, etc) and go warp10+ into a star to go back in time ala ST4:the Voyage Home...fuck the temporal prime directive. Make sure you bring future Trek tech (from Voyager), too; quantum torpedoes, Transwarp conduit tech, quantum slipstream drive, batmobile armor, super-duper borg-cube-bashin' torpedoes, and the phase-cloak, just for fun. I won't tell the Romulans if you won't.

Present the tech to the pre-invasion Federation Council, telling them they have only X number of decades to study, replicate, and upgrade Starfleet to engage the greatest conquering force in the universe.

Meanwhile, in your real universe, you just disappear and life goes on, people remember you as the coward who escaped the empire and screwed the movement by taking all the good stuff with you.
They resort to terrorist attacks, and win nothing but the hatred of the people you where trying to liberate.
Without leadership, resources or sympathy, the Fed's movement dies a couple of months later.

Shogoki · Post by **Shogoki** » 2003-03-17 07:07pm

Enola Straight wrote:I'd tak a ship, load it with as much Wars tech as I could...including schematics, history of the invasion, as well as working machines (droids, cannons, shield generators, computer cores, etc) and go warp10+ into a star to go back in time ala ST4:the Voyage Home...fuck the temporal prime directive. Make sure you bring future Trek tech (from Voyager), too; quantum torpedoes, Transwarp conduit tech, quantum slipstream drive, batmobile armor, super-duper borg-cube-bashin' torpedoes, and the phase-cloak, just for fun. I won't tell the Romulans if you won't.

Present the tech to the pre-invasion Federation Council, telling them they have only X number of decades to study, replicate, and upgrade Starfleet to engage the greatest conquering force in the universe.

Meanwhile, in your real universe, you just disappear and life goes on, people remember you as the coward who escaped the empire and screwed the movement by taking all the good stuff with you.
They resort to terrorist attacks, and win nothing but the hatred of the people you where trying to liberate.
Without leadership, resources or sympathy, the Fed's movement dies a couple of months later.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-03-17 10:39pm

Question, why would the Federation want to revolt. All the Empire would have to do is bathe this new imperial jem with riches and the Feddies would fall in line. After a few generations, the Federation's culture would be assilmated into that of the Empire's and thus become a sector. Prehaps Earth could become a new Correlia or Chandralia.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-17 10:43pm

Why would anyone want to revolt against the Empire? Gee I dunno why don't you ask those guys flying X Wings at the Battle of Yavin, those people freezing on the ground at hoth, or the great many others at Endor?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-17 11:39pm

a few hundred thousand? not many, in a galaxy.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-17 11:52pm

Those were just the soldiers who represented billions. There are some people who actually prefer civil liberties and freedom of speech over a government that an arbitrarily murder at will. The Rebels were the people who had the will to fight, they were not necessarily every last one.

And do you think all of those nonhuman worlds really enjoyed living under that government? Mon Calamari went into open rebellion, their entire population was against Imperial rule. so even if the one planet opposed the eMpire that kind of diffuses your little "hundreds of thousands" claim doesn't it.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2003-03-18 06:56am

Darth Fanboy wrote:Those were just the soldiers who represented billions. There are some people who actually prefer civil liberties and freedom of speech over a government that an arbitrarily murder at will. The Rebels were the people who had the will to fight, they were not necessarily every last one.

Those were solders represented ex-Old Republic senators. Political elites can often make soldiers believe that they fight for just cause. Members of Front Pembela Islam (a fanatical fundie organization in my country, Indonesia) believe that they fight for a just cause; they never realize that political elites are pulling their strings.

Also, if I'm an average citizen (not rebels, smugglers, freedom fighters, etc) who don't care about politics, I'll choose Galactic Empire over Federation. At least in GE wealth accumulation is allowed (in contrary to commie Feddies).

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-03-18 02:28pm

COmsidering how the SW galaxy ended up after the Empire are you really saying that it was a bad thing. Assholes will always protest against the goverment, the SW galaxy was no better in that regard.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-18 04:55pm

Im not arguing pro Empire or pro Republic or Pro Federation. But what I am trying to point outis that some people care less about the accumulation of wealth and prestige and more about political freedoms.

Those were solders represented ex-Old Republic senators. Political elites can often make soldiers believe that they fight for just cause.

And not all of those soldiers represented the Old Republic and their senators. Wedge Antilles certainly did not, Luke Skywalker wasn't part of the Alliance for some old government. Im sure that a lot of the aliens who joined in the Alliance did so because of politics and not because a bunch of men in white armor are allowed to murder them and their families at whim.

Also, if I'm an average citizen (not rebels, smugglers, freedom fighters, etc) who don't care about politics, I'll choose Galactic Empire over Federation. At least in GE wealth accumulation is allowed (in contrary to commie Feddies).

Lest you forget the average citizen in either galaxy is not human, and your civil liberties will be restricted severely. There may even be worlds where anti alien property laws and taxes come into play.

COmsidering how the SW galaxy ended up after the Empire are you really saying that it was a bad thing. Assholes will always protest against the goverment, the SW galaxy was no better in that regard.

yes but in other governments there are rights to peaceful protests and lobbying which generally makes for a more peaceful and stable environment. In the Empire, protestors get crushed by landing shuttlecraft (Tarkin did just that and it helped him earn the title of Grand Moff.)

Indeed the eMpire can bring in wealth and allow for a prosperous environment but doing that will also create a class system. Something that Federation earth wouldn't have had for hundreds of years and a lower claste will eventually develop. The Empire can't make every citizen happy and content and even then there may still be some who preferred the freedom they had.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-03-19 03:59pm

LIke i say some people will always be ungrateful. Capitalism always creats an underclass and there is only 2 things you can do about it. Piss and moan like a jerk or do something ti improve your life. I went with number 2 in RL.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-03-19 06:11pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:Indeed the eMpire can bring in wealth and allow for a prosperous environment but doing that will also create a class system. Something that Federation earth wouldn't have had for hundreds of years and a lower claste will eventually develop. The Empire can't make every citizen happy and content and even then there may still be some who preferred the freedom they had.

Obviously you do not understand Marxism.

There is a lower caste in the Federation. The worker.

Then there's Starfleet and the politicians. The much better off upper class.

The general standard of living increases under Capitalism, even if a few of the working class slip lower, most will rise into the new and entrepeneural middle class with more creature comforts and more oppurtunity.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-03-19 11:56pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Obviously you do not understand Marxism.

There is a lower caste in the Federation. The worker.

Then there's Starfleet and the politicians. The much better off upper class.

The general standard of living increases under Capitalism, even if a few of the working class slip lower, most will rise into the new and entrepeneural middle class with more creature comforts and more oppurtunity.

The Federation's Earth is an incredibly socialist society without the need for money. It is also portrayed as a utopia at every chance. What you have done is divided the Federation into a caste system where everyone who isn't affiliated with starfleet or the federation is in a "lower caste". Where do you get the assumption that Starfleet officers are better off than non officers? citizens on Earth live in homes that accomdate transporters, replicators (if they so desire) and i'm guessing there are residences with holodecks as well. You have no evidence that non officers have fewer rights than those in civil service as well.

From what I have seen on Earth (which is the planet in question, so mentioning other planets such as Tasha yar's homeworld or other colonies does not apply) The standard of living seems nice.

You mention more opportunity as if the Federation is joining the Republic rather than the Empire. The Empire imposes heavy taxes on its people, and a planet such as Earth would be taxed heavily in order to fund the military, furthermore. any sort of resources or industry on the planet will be nationalized by the Empire or it will be taken over by one of the major corporations from the SW Galaxy such as Seinar Systems.

Another thing, the standard of living in socialist nations is not necessairly low. look at many western European nations, especially Norway. Norway has one of the highest standards of living in the world and their government has many socialist qualities.

Captain Underling · Post by **Captain Underling** » 2003-03-30 05:33am

I'd be careful of saying Earth is presented as a utopia at every chance. Most of the times you see earth, it does look very nice but it is always in relation to Starfleet (I think). These are the people whom Illuminatus Primus was saying would be part of this upper class.
Some examples:
Picards Family - Family of a Starfleet officer
Picard in old age - retired Starfleet officer
That's the only two I can think of at the moment.
Anyway, my point is that maybe earth is a socialist paradise, but I think the evidence can also be interpreted as confirming Illuminatus Primus' ideas. Remember there is a difference between socialist ideas and communism.

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Post-Occupation Feddie Resistance

Utopia?