Fair Weather Revolutionaries

[Metahive]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -disappoi/

“It’s a very dismal turnout,” said Jackie Milton, 61, a Jacksboro, Texas, resident and the head of Texans for Operation American Spring, to The Washington Times. He said hopes were high when he arrived in Alexandria, Va., a day or so ago and found motels and hotels were sold out for 30 miles around.
But weather’s dampened turnout a bit, he said.

“We were getting over two inches of rain in hour in parts of Virginia this morning,” Mr. Milton said. “Now it’s a nice sunny day. But this is a very poor turnout. It ain’t no millions. And it ain’t looking like there’s going to be millions. Hundreds is more like it.”

O man, this is really asking for it:

REVOLUTION CANCELED DUE TO RAIN!

That dastardly Obama and his magical rain dance powers, curses, foiled again!

"Mr Lenin, how about we storm the Winter Palace today?"
"Nyet, haven't you looked outside? It's freezing!"

“I used to be a revolutionary like you, then I took some raindrops on the head.”



As some great thinker once said, "Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude".

[K. A. Pital]

What the hell is the American Spring? First time I heard about it.

[Metahive]

A teabagger/Alex Jonesites/total moron "movement" that wants to enact the american version of the arab spring by removing that dang nasty Obama guy and his cronies from office:

Here's their creed (taken from here)

TO: Patriots (black, white, red, yellow, brown, male, female, civilian, military, truckers, bikers, militias, veterans, old, young, every American that loves freedom and liberty)

Mission: Restoration of Constitutional government, rule of law, freedom, liberty “of the people, by the people, for the people” from despotic and tyrannical federal leadership.

Assumptions:
Millions of Americans will participate.
American veterans and patriots are energized to end the tyranny, lawlessness, and shredding of the US Constitution.
Government is not the target, it is sound; corrupt and criminal leadership must be replaced.
Those in power could use force against unarmed, peaceful patriots exercising their constitutional rights.
Patriots could be harmed, but not expected.
There is no hope given today’s technology of secrecy for the effort nor do we want it secret…..

t’s now or never. God help us.

…..the law of nature rules. A fluffy, cuddly lamb gets eaten by a mean old wolf is not an illegal or immoral event…the law of nature. When some greedy, self-serving occupant of the White House or Congress, or elements outside America, is threatening our existence, our freedom, our liberty, our Constitution, our life resources, our America, then we fight back to destroy the threat and there is nothing immoral or illegal about it. When the government becomes lawless, then “we the people” no longer are obligated to follow the government……there is no law when government picks and chooses for political purposes or personal agenda. At this time the government is performing as a lawless entity……

A duck cannot be turned into a fox; an elephant cannot be turned into a flea; the laws of nature will not permit.
Likewise, a nation ordained and principled by the laws of nature, sovereign, free, with liberty for all cannot naturally become a nation guided by royalty, decrees, tyranny, elitist, self-serving criminals. The former has proven desirable, the latter has proven human pain.
“We can become a nation guided by royalty IF “we the people” beguiled by the government in surrender to our lusts for that which we have not earned –for what is not natural –if we have become intoxicated by unbroken success” as Lincoln proclaimed in March 30 ,1863 call for fasting, humiliation, and prayer–we can very easily heap to ourselves leaders, and with itching ears, be turned from the Truth to become enslaved by the LIE.”
The United States of America (elephant) while embracing the “LIE” is teetering on the abyss of becoming a sniveling, blood sucking, undesirable nation (flea).

OPERATION AMERICAN SPRING will be a gigantic step in removing the flea infestation that is sucking the blood out of America.

And here's there list of accusations against Obama:

1. Conspiracy and intent to defraud; RE: General Motors, Chrysler Corporation, and the American Auto industry, UAW Autoworkers unions.

2. Racketeering: Un-Constitutional and Illegal seizure of private property; RE: General Motors, Chrysler Corporation.

3. Racketeering and Conspiracy to Defraud: RE: Healthcare; Willful and intentional overthrow and attempt to destroy American private insurance and health care industry. Conspiracy to defraud the American people, RE: SEIU and union leader Andy Stern.

4. Racketeering, Fraud, Un-Constitutional and Illegal seizure of private property. RE: Gulf oil wells, Private Oil industry assets, RE: PetroBrazil, George Soros investments. RE: Obama administration ban/moratorium on Gulf oil drilling, Forced closure of existing American owned oil company assets located in the Gulf of Mexico. Financial contributions to Petro-Brazil.

5. Derelictions of duty, failures to secure the US – Mexican border. RE: Illegal immigration.

6. Interfering with a Sovereign state and the states rights to self-defense of its citizens. RE: State of Arizona, And Arizona law to enforce immigration and the states right and obligations to defend it population against violent illegal drug smugglers.

7. Obstruction of Justice: Deliberate and willful attempt to impede and obstruct the duties of sovereign states dully-elected law enforcement official from enforcing both state and federal immigration laws. RE: Arizona County Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

8. Interferring with the sovereignty of the State of Arizona: RE: The Obama administration’s state department reporting of Arizona’s immigration law to the United Nations for alleged “human rights violations”, an entity which has no juristiction or authority over the States or over this Country.

9. Dereliction of duty and failure to carryout the duties of his office of President of The United States of America, failure to comply with the oath of office under the Constitution of the United States: RE: Failure to provide a stabile form of currency; Excessive deficit spending and deliberate attempt to devalue the American currency system. RE: Cloward and Piven plan to destroy the American economy, “Overwhelm the system”.

10. Attempt to destroy American Economy and private industry: RE: CAP & TRADE and Climate Change legislation. RE: EPA rules and legislation regulating industry.

11. Conspiracy to overthrow the Constitution and Sovereignty of the United States of America. RE: Obama administrations planed attempt to redistribute the wealth and sovereignty of the Nation through the United Nations. RE: CAP & TRADE and Climate Control legislation.

12. Endangering American Defense and security and the defense and security of America’s closest ally: RE: Obama Administration recent actions in regards to Israel and his Anti-Semitic positions towards Israel.

13. Endangering American Military personal while serving in harms way in Afganistan: RE: Obama’s failure to make timely and expedient decisions regarding troop levels increases requested by Military commanders.

14. Treason: RE: Items 6, 8, 9, 10, 11. All of these grievances occurring during a time when the United States is at war against terrorists.

15. Treason, and Conspiracy to commit treason. RE: Attempts and planed legislation to regulate free speach and free commerce over the Internet. RE: Cass Sunstein regulations regarding the Internet.

Doesn't this sound, like, totally reasonable and not at all delusional, paranoid and stupid?

[Crossroads Inc.]

It is a group whose modeling their movement off of the "Arab Spring" series of revolutions where people Rose Up and threw off the shackles of an oppressive dictator!
In other worlds it's a group of blow hards who honestly think they can oust Obama from Office and "take over" America for "the people".

EDIT: Damn Metahive beat me to it

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah. So no wonder it fell apart at the first rainstorm.

On the other hand, that kind of torrential rain actually can stop real armies in their tracks, let alone delusional fake armies that exist only in the mind of the event organizers.

And, in line with something I noted in another thread calling this sort of mad-Tea-ist people "privileged," the very fact that they 'organized' an attempt to overthrow the state this way, by all signs seriously expecting it to work, is the best possible proof that they have never known the meaning of true oppression.

[Crossroads Inc.]

It's like the "Jack Trick" people… In their minds they cannot conceive that, as even as they think the "Government" is, that they would ever consider actually using FROCE against these people.
I mean, their not beating around the bush, their intended goal is the forceful ousting of Obama and the current government, and yet they seem to have no problem broadcasting it far and wide. They no doubt feel that if military forces were ever sent to stop them, they would either refuse to stop them, or even magically switch sides to join their noble cause!

[K. A. Pital]

Well, now I get it. These guys are like Cosplay of Revolution.

[Darmalus]

It's like the "Jack Trick" people… In their minds they cannot conceive that, as even as they think the "Government" is, that they would ever consider actually using FROCE against these people.
I mean, their not beating around the bush, their intended goal is the forceful ousting of Obama and the current government, and yet they seem to have no problem broadcasting it far and wide. They no doubt feel that if military forces were ever sent to stop them, they would either refuse to stop them, or even magically switch sides to join their noble cause!

Isn't this how Probability Broach went? They never had to fight because the army switched sides when they got an earful of libertarian screed?

[Crossroads Inc.]

Only in the situations where they faced an Army that would have actually defeated their rag tag volunteer militia people… In all lesser situations, their "Army" of all volunteer forces were able to magical defeat opponents.

But basically thats how it goes. They assume once the Army hears their glorious message they will immediately join their cause.

[Simon_Jester]

It's like the "Jack Trick" people… In their minds they cannot conceive that, as even as they think the "Government" is, that they would ever consider actually using FORCE against these people.

I mean, their not beating around the bush, their intended goal is the forceful ousting of Obama and the current government, and yet they seem to have no problem broadcasting it far and wide. They no doubt feel that if military forces were ever sent to stop them, they would either refuse to stop them, or even magically switch sides to join their noble cause!

More or less. It's like Stas says, in that they are basically dressing up as revolutionaries without being remotely prepared for the actual stresses and dangers of participating in a revolution. A luxury they only have because there's really nothing for them to rebel against, the system is staggeringly tolerant of such crackpot behavior.

[Borgholio]

Only in the situations where they faced an Army that would have actually defeated their rag tag volunteer militia people… In all lesser situations, their "Army" of all volunteer forces were able to magical defeat opponents.

But basically thats how it goes. They assume once the Army hears their glorious message they will immediately join their cause.

That begs the question, what WOULD the Army do? Let's say, almost as a RAR, that the Nevada Militia thing kept gaining steam until the militia controlled several small towns and declared open revolution by launching raids on major cities, etc... Let's say they acted like a full-fledged rebel army that's just starting up.

How would such a thing play out? I seriously doubt that many in the military would just switch sides and join them, but if the Army was ordered to move in, how many soldiers would hesitate to fire on American citizens? Would there be an issue with getting the Army to obey orders and attack, or would they follow through since it's their job description to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic?

[Purple]

Only in the situations where they faced an Army that would have actually defeated their rag tag volunteer militia people… In all lesser situations, their "Army" of all volunteer forces were able to magical defeat opponents.

But basically thats how it goes. They assume once the Army hears their glorious message they will immediately join their cause.

That begs the question, what WOULD the Army do? Let's say, almost as a RAR, that the Nevada Militia thing kept gaining steam until the militia controlled several small towns and declared open revolution by launching raids on major cities, etc... Let's say they acted like a full-fledged rebel army that's just starting up.

How would such a thing play out? I seriously doubt that many in the military would just switch sides and join them, but if the Army was ordered to move in, how many soldiers would hesitate to fire on American citizens? Would there be an issue with getting the Army to obey orders and attack, or would they follow through since it's their job description to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic?

Honestly I think they would not hesitate much. Remember, america is large. The government can afford to pick the units and even individuals they send. If you pick a unit of veterans just returning from Afghanistan or what ever who have already killed for the government and tell them that these people are domestic terrorists corpses will fall.

Plus, any involvement by the american army is likely to involve artillery and the air force. And it's kind of unlikely that the drone operator will hesitate before click-killing a bunch of rebels from his joystick.

[Simon_Jester]

That begs the question, what WOULD the Army do? Let's say, almost as a RAR, that the Nevada Militia thing kept gaining steam until the militia controlled several small towns and declared open revolution by launching raids on major cities, etc... Let's say they acted like a full-fledged rebel army that's just starting up.

How would such a thing play out? I seriously doubt that many in the military would just switch sides and join them, but if the Army was ordered to move in, how many soldiers would hesitate to fire on American citizens? Would there be an issue with getting the Army to obey orders and attack, or would they follow through since it's their job description to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic?

Would it be an issue, yes; would it be impossible, probably not. It was certainly not that hard to find soldiers willing to fight in 1861. This would be different, on the other hand less actual armed force is required.

Honestly I think they would not hesitate much. Remember, america is large. The government can afford to pick the units and even individuals they send. If you pick a unit of veterans just returning from Afghanistan or what ever who have already killed for the government and tell them that these people are domestic terrorists corpses will fall.

I don't think it's actually that simple, but the basic conclusion is essentially sound.

Plus, any involvement by the american army is likely to involve artillery and the air force. And it's kind of unlikely that the drone operator will hesitate before click-killing a bunch of rebels from his joystick.

This I'm not so sure of. It makes the conflict a lot more premediated; you are in no immediate danger from the people you're shooting at. So while PTSD rates and so on aren't as high, it may not be easier to get people to override their reluctance to shoot in the first place.

[Eternal_Freedom]

What is it with Americans hating their own government? Seems like we get a thread like this every month or so with yet more crackpots who want to do something about "them guys in Washington."

However, the "called off by rain" part really is quite funny.

[Darmalus]

Units in the military are far more mixed now than in 1861, thanks to easy transportation. The likelihood of an entire unit deciding rebellion is awesome is very low when you have the entire political spectrum in almost every large unit.

[Steel]

Units in the military are far more mixed now than in 1861, thanks to easy transportation. The likelihood of an entire unit deciding rebellion is awesome is very low when you have the entire political spectrum in almost every large unit.

But likewise the converse is also true. It is harder to get a group composed entirely of people who have nothing in common with the revolutionaries.

Third world states use a combination of elite regime protection troops for the really messy stuff and then regular troops from other parts of the country to suppress local discontent. It is easier to get people to attack unfamiliar dehumanised targets than people in places they know.

[Darmalus]

Units in the military are far more mixed now than in 1861, thanks to easy transportation. The likelihood of an entire unit deciding rebellion is awesome is very low when you have the entire political spectrum in almost every large unit.

But likewise the converse is also true. It is harder to get a group composed entirely of people who have nothing in common with the revolutionaries.

Third world states use a combination of elite regime protection troops for the really messy stuff and then regular troops from other parts of the country to suppress local discontent. It is easier to get people to attack unfamiliar dehumanised targets than people in places they know.

Would we even NEED to dehumanize the rebels? As long as the soldiers believe the elected government is in the right, they are probably going to be pretty keen on crushing the rebels. I can only speak from personal experience, but the people I served with seemed to take the oath to protect the US from threats, foreign and domestic pretty seriously.

Unless we are assuming this is some alternate universe where the US government has become some oppressive 3rd world state.

[RogueIce]

Only in the situations where they faced an Army that would have actually defeated their rag tag volunteer militia people… In all lesser situations, their "Army" of all volunteer forces were able to magical defeat opponents.

But basically thats how it goes. They assume once the Army hears their glorious message they will immediately join their cause.

That begs the question, what WOULD the Army do? Let's say, almost as a RAR, that the Nevada Militia thing kept gaining steam until the militia controlled several small towns and declared open revolution by launching raids on major cities, etc... Let's say they acted like a full-fledged rebel army that's just starting up.

How would such a thing play out? I seriously doubt that many in the military would just switch sides and join them, but if the Army was ordered to move in, how many soldiers would hesitate to fire on American citizens? Would there be an issue with getting the Army to obey orders and attack, or would they follow through since it's their job description to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic?

Unless the State Police and the larger law enforcement agencies in Nevada (like the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, because the Bundy Ranch is in Clark County which is their jurisdiction) are completely and hopelessly outmatched, the answer to your question is, "Watch it unfold on CNN like everyone else."

The Nevada National Guard would be deployed before the active-duty Army anyway, and since it's a good bet that their small towns and/or major cities are being occupied/raided, they would be none too happy about that.

Still, they'd probably try to use tear gas and stuff before outright opening fire, since nobody wants a bloodbath in an election year.

[Steel]

Units in the military are far more mixed now than in 1861, thanks to easy transportation. The likelihood of an entire unit deciding rebellion is awesome is very low when you have the entire political spectrum in almost every large unit.

But likewise the converse is also true. It is harder to get a group composed entirely of people who have nothing in common with the revolutionaries.

Third world states use a combination of elite regime protection troops for the really messy stuff and then regular troops from other parts of the country to suppress local discontent. It is easier to get people to attack unfamiliar dehumanised targets than people in places they know.

Would we even NEED to dehumanize the rebels? As long as the soldiers believe the elected government is in the right, they are probably going to be pretty keen on crushing the rebels. I can only speak from personal experience, but the people I served with seemed to take the oath to protect the US from threats, foreign and domestic pretty seriously.

Unless we are assuming this is some alternate universe where the US government has become some oppressive 3rd world state.

I was using the example to illustrate that with the right structure and setup you can get troops to fire on legitimate protesters in some contexts. Obviously it is far easier to convince troops it is legitimate to fire on genuinely wrong protesters.

I would believe that it would probably be easiest to use non local forces to fight rebels, as locals would probably be less happy about fighting through areas they know against people they would culturally identify with. Then again if the protesters really are so different the local troops might be MORE motivated as they would see it as protecting their community.

The basic principle of portraying the people you're fighting as outsiders and dehumanising them is used in all conflict. In the case where troops could be sympathetic to rebels it seems best to draw the troops from further away so as to avoid any community bonds and make that dehumanising step easier. In the case where the rebels are totally unsympathetic (like here) then there is not the same problem.

[Borgholio]

What is it with Americans hating their own government? Seems like we get a thread like this every month or so with yet more crackpots who want to do something about "them guys in Washington."

However, the "called off by rain" part really is quite funny.

We have always been wary of any possibility that a government could oppress us. Trouble is that while most people (myself included) might say, "OK the guy in office is a moron, better vote him out next election or protest his policies." (which is civilized and reasonable), some would literally be up in arms if they don't like the skin color of the president (which is actually part of the reason here in truth).

The reason you hear so much about it is that the ones who threaten revolution are the most vocal and honestly believe that the government is evil and out to get them. Most sane people would voice their displeasure through protests or at the polls...not through violence.

[Grumman]

And here's there list of accusations against Obama:

These groups make it nice and easy to tell they're full of shit, don't they? You can tell by the fact that they don't cite Obama ordering the assassination of a US citizen without due process as one of the reasons for their organisation's existence. Until they do that, we can safely write them off as the moral equivalent of slacktivists, undeserving of any support.

[Executor32]

I love the title ThinkProgress chose for their report:

Tens Of People Descend Upon The Capitol To Drive The Obama Administration Out Of Office

BY WILL FREEMAN, ABIGAIL BESSLER, AND ADAM PECK MAY 16, 2014 AT 4:32 PM UPDATED: MAY 17, 2014 AT 10:08 AM

When Col. Harry Riley announced his plan for an Operation American Spring, he sought to evoke the same kind of populist uprising that toppled regimes in the Middle East, protests that were collectively given the moniker Arab Spring.

And while the photos that poured in from Tahrir Square were incredible, depicting tens of thousands of people in the streets, the pictures from American Spring were…less so:





The “second American revolution” got off to a slow start in Washington, DC on Friday, falling roughly 9,999,950 people short of their goal of 10 million angry, constitution-wielding participants. (That was the low-end estimate. They were prepared for upwards of 30 million).

The few who did make it to Washington, D.C came with a laundry list of grievances, ranging from Benghazi, to Obamacare, to President Obama’s birth certificate, to general lawlessness.

“Our main goal is to return our government to the constitutional government,” said Marty Church, a protestor who traveled to Washington, D.C from the Maryland suburbs. “The whole administration is based on lies,” added Fred Lachance, another protester from Maryland.

“Benghazi’s a lie and a cover-up,” said Church. “And if you’re lying about something as stupid as that, what else are you lying about?”

Wiley Drake, a pastor and talk radio host from California, knows the truth behind the Benghazi coverup.

“What caused Benghazi was a kidnapping gone awry from Barry Soetoro,” he said, referencing the name Birthers have ascribed to Obama based on a widely-circulated (and hastily photoshopped) Columbia University student ID. “He was going to kidnap Mr. Stevens, and he got killed in the process. That’s what really happened, that’s the truth.”

When pressed to cite other breaches of the constitution, one protestor referred us back to Operation American Spring’s website, which offers little more than an outline of the group’s three-phased mission (Phase 2 calls for 1 million of the 10 million gathered to camp out in Washington, D.C. until their demands are met).

Those demands — removing Obama, Biden and Nancy Pelosi from the federal government — are not achievable ones even according to many of the attendees. “It’s a good goal, but it’s not a realistic goal,” said Lachance. Others, though, were more optimistic.

“The Obama administration is lawless, and we want him out,” said Carrie “Beth” Koncar, who led a small group up from Georgia. “And basically that is the goal here, for the resignation of Obama, Biden, Pelosi. The Lord God is behind this, the Lord is the breath in this. He puts kings and kingdoms in their places, and he takes them down.”

As for the paltry turnout, several attendees could barely contain their dismay at the low-key affair. “I took a day off from work to come down,” said Art Skillman. “Where they are, I don’t know.”

Judging by those photos, even before it was cancelled on account of rain the protest was... underwhelming at best.

[Borgholio]

The more "reasonable" members of that group should see this as a sign that their opinion is the minority and few others share their opinion. But then again...they'll probably see this as a sign that our evil president deliberately shut down various transportation routes into the area to prevent the protest.

[Irbis]

military, truckers, bikers, militias, veterans

I find that rather... curious choice of professions. If we take 'veterans' not as 'ex-military men' but as what he likely meant, 'people loud how patriotic they are because they were in army and still wear military trappings for show' you basically get 5 kinds of people likely to form right-wing paramilitary groups. On one hand, it's nice no one else would support it, on another, prevalence of what is basically armed gangs that can go into law breaking phase on moment's notice is worrying.

Incidentally, these are the sorts of people who scream they are 'law abidung citizuns' at NRA rallies the loudest, despite being actually the ones least deserving access to any sort of weapons.

Honestly I think they would not hesitate much. Remember, america is large. The government can afford to pick the units and even individuals they send. If you pick a unit of veterans just returning from Afghanistan or what ever who have already killed for the government and tell them that these people are domestic terrorists corpses will fall.

What about various three-percenters groups and similar organizations? The ones loudly proclaiming they will shot the government instead on first sign it wants to break their imaginary CONSTITUTION?

Though, if these are as numerous as people in the rally above, I guess all it will take to solve their problem is a few MPs throwing them into jail for wilful disobedience of orders.

[Metahive]

GRANDSTANDER McMILITIADICK: "The government is out to get us, we must get them before they get us first..."
MOMMY GOVERNMENT: "Grandy, dinner's ready, come itside!"
GRANDSTANDER McMILITIADICK: "Coming, mum! Anyway, we'll meet again tomorrow when we'll discuss how we're all sovereign citizens who need nothing, NOTHING from the government!"