Kerry to Snowden: "Turn yourself in, I double dog dare ya!"

[Grumman]

Kerry says Snowden should ‘man up’ and return to U.S.

Secretary of State John Kerry has blasted former NSA contractor Edward Snowden as a “confused” man who “betrayed his country,” rebutting the whistleblower’s claim that his exile in Russia is the fault of the U.S. government.

Kerry's comments came ahead of the scheduled airing on Wednesday evening of Snowden’s first sit-down interview with a U.S. network. In excerpts released by NBC, Snowden — who fled the United States after leaking classified documents detailing massive surveillance by the U.S. government — said he “never intended to end up in Russia.”

“I had a flight booked to Cuba onwards to Latin America, and I was stopped because the United States government decided to revoke my passport and trap me in Moscow airport. So when people ask, ‘Why are you in Russia?’ I say, ‘Please ask the State Department,’” Snowden said.

Kerry reacted bluntly to the accusation. “For a supposedly smart guy, that’s a pretty dumb answer,” he told NBC. Snowden has previously said he acted out of “good conscience” to protect privacy and basic liberties.

“If he cares so much about America and he believes in America, he should trust in the American system of justice,” Kerry said. “But to be hiding in Russia, an authoritarian country, and to have just admitted that he was really trying to get to Cuba — I mean, what does that tell you? I think he’s confused, I think it’s very sad, but this is a man who has done great damage to his country.”

Snowden also claimed in the interview that he was trained as a spy and has worked undercover and overseas for both the National Security Agency (NSA) and the CIA, comments that Kerry would not address Wednesday morning.

“I was trained as a spy in sort of the traditional sense of the word, in that I lived and worked undercover overseas pretending to work in a job that I’m not and even being assigned a name that was not mine,” Snowden said. “When they say I’m a low-level systems administrator, that I don’t know what I’m talking about, I’d say it’s somewhat misleading.”

While working as a computer network administrator, Snowden removed tens of thousands of secret documents from an NSA facility in Hawaii and then leaked them to the media. The aftermath of those leaks shook the American intelligence establishment and resulted in Snowden being charged with espionage and other offenses in the U.S. He could face 30 years in prison if convicted.

Kerry, meanwhile, told CBS on Wednesday that Snowden’s actions had harmed national security and that through his actions he had “told terrorists what they can now do to be able to avoid detection.”

“He should man up and come back to the United States if he has a complaint about what’s the matter with American surveillance, come back here and stand in our system of justice and make his case,” Kerry said. “But instead he is just sitting [in Russia] taking potshots at his country.”

I'm reminded of a movie - I think it was Enemy of the State - where the bad guy shows up to a meet and just starts fillibustering with patriotic-sounding bullshit. I don't believe John Kerry is so stupid that he thinks Snowden has cause to trust Obama's DoJ, not when Manning gets thirty-five years for whistleblowing while raping PoWs to death gets you eight and torturing PoWs and destroying evidence means you walk.

[Vympel]

As Greenwald notes, its also incredibly dishonest, since Snowden can't argue justification.

[Grumman]

As Greenwald notes, its also incredibly dishonest, since Snowden can't argue justification.

I'd lost track of Greenwald when he left the Guardian, so thanks for bringing this to my attention. I assume this is the article you're talking about?

[Vympel]

As Greenwald notes, its also incredibly dishonest, since Snowden can't argue justification.

I'd lost track of Greenwald when he left the Guardian, so thanks for bringing this to my attention. I assume this is the article you're talking about?

He's at Intercept magazine now, but the comment I'm referring to is on his twitter feed.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/4 ... 6372100096

[Gaidin]

I'm reminded of a movie - I think it was Enemy of the State - where the bad guy shows up to a meet and just starts fillibustering with patriotic-sounding bullshit. I don't believe John Kerry is so stupid that he thinks Snowden has cause to trust Obama's DoJ, not when Manning gets thirty-five years for whistleblowing while raping PoWs to death gets you eight and torturing PoWs and destroying evidence means you walk.

Honest question. What do the missteps of the DoD or their weird setup have to do with this or the DoJ? Manning was tried under a totally different system than Snowden would be as I understand it.

[Spekio]

The U.S. is not an authoritarian country now? Right-o.

[Gaidin]

Depends on how fast and loose your definition of authoritarian is.

[Spekio]

Depends on how fast and loose your definition of authoritarian is.

If Russia is one by Kerry's standarts, so is the U.S. Neither of the countries have Authoritarianism as a form of government, so I'm guessing he used it in a figurative sense.

[PKRudeBoy]

Depends on how fast and loose your definition of authoritarian is.

If Russia is one by Kerry's standarts, so is the U.S. Neither of the countries have Authoritarianism as a form of government, so I'm guessing he used it in a figurative sense.

I think that might be a bit of a stretch. The US Government certainly isn't made up of choirboys, but if Snowden had been Russian I would wager he would have already received a complimentary polonium injection courtesy of the KG... sorry, FSB.

[Broomstick]

Snowden would be nuts to come back to the US, he'd immediately be "detained" and spend years in solitary, at best. Seriously, Mr. Kerry, whatever Mr. Snowden may be he is NOT an idiot!

[Spekio]

I think that might be a bit of a stretch. The US Government certainly isn't made up of choirboys, but if Snowden had been Russian I would wager he would have already received a complimentary polonium injection courtesy of the KG... sorry, FSB.

I'll quote wikipedia:

Authoritarianism is a form of government. It is characterized by absolute or blind obedience to [formal] authority, as against individual freedom and related to the expectation of unquestioning obedience.

Is is that much of a stretch? This is pot calling the kettle black.

[Gaidin]

I missed the part where I've got to have absolute and blind obedience to authority in the current government.

[Spekio]

I missed the part where I've got to have absolute and blind obedience to authority in the current government.

You missed the part on "figuratively" as well.

But still, Manning proved to us that exposing the government's illegal actions is illegal. Still not seeing the parallel?

[Gaidin]

You missed the part on "figuratively" as well.

But still, Manning proved to us that exposing the government's illegal actions is illegal. Still not seeing the parallel?

Nah, Manning proved to us that leaking classified information is illegal. I really have no clue of the nature of about 99% of the information he leaked because he leaked holy shit that much. But I'm not sure that's an argument I'm interested in having. I'm more interested in the OP and how Manning and the DoD is at all relevant to the DoJ. Unless this is one of those special instances I've never heard of where the chain of command goes up and then back down into a totally different section of government and the Attorney General is responsible.

[PKRudeBoy]

I think that might be a bit of a stretch. The US Government certainly isn't made up of choirboys, but if Snowden had been Russian I would wager he would have already received a complimentary polonium injection courtesy of the KG... sorry, FSB.

I'll quote wikipedia:

Authoritarianism is a form of government. It is characterized by absolute or blind obedience to [formal] authority, as against individual freedom and related to the expectation of unquestioning obedience.

Is is that much of a stretch? This is pot calling the kettle black.

Yes. Yes it is. While the US may be in the midst of a slow slide into authoritarianism and plutocracy, the Russian Federation is already there. Shades of grey do exist, and to equate the two is hyperbolic at best.

[Thanas]

I'm reminded of a movie - I think it was Enemy of the State - where the bad guy shows up to a meet and just starts fillibustering with patriotic-sounding bullshit. I don't believe John Kerry is so stupid that he thinks Snowden has cause to trust Obama's DoJ, not when Manning gets thirty-five years for whistleblowing while raping PoWs to death gets you eight and torturing PoWs and destroying evidence means you walk.

Honest question. What do the missteps of the DoD or their weird setup have to do with this or the DoJ? Manning was tried under a totally different system than Snowden would be as I understand it.

The larger point you are missing is that the US is pretty adept at prosecuting those who leak about their dirty underwear, but reward those who soiled it in the first place.

[Gaidin]

The larger point you are missing is that the US is pretty adept at prosecuting those who leak about their dirty underwear, but reward those who soiled it in the first place.

Oh I'm well aware of that point. She'd already leaked the dirty underwear when she'd just dumped a few hundred thousand other things that he didn't have a clue about. If she's able to separate the Baghdad Airstrike and Granai Airstrike(wiki can't seem to pin down the Gitmo Bay files to him or someone else, whatever say what you want about these files) from diplomatic cables why shouldn't the military court martial her for leaking classified information even if a few of the files she leaked are whistleblowing? Damn near most of them wouldn't be. Most of them would just be dumping classified information into the hands of people not cleared to know it. Which is a legitimate crime.

But again. That's not the question I'm asking. What the fuck does that have to do with Snowden? Manning's 35 years is irrelevant. The DoD and it's system can't possibly charge him with their fancy military rules. I was just wondering what had the OP ranting off the cuff about Manning in such a manner. Forgive me for trying to get a question answered.

[Darth Nostril]

Kerry said “But instead he is just sitting [in Russia] taking potshots at his country.”

That's funny, I thought that it was his country taking potshots at other people that was the problem.

[Grumman]

I'm reminded of a movie - I think it was Enemy of the State - where the bad guy shows up to a meet and just starts fillibustering with patriotic-sounding bullshit. I don't believe John Kerry is so stupid that he thinks Snowden has cause to trust Obama's DoJ, not when Manning gets thirty-five years for whistleblowing while raping PoWs to death gets you eight and torturing PoWs and destroying evidence means you walk.

Honest question. What do the missteps of the DoD or their weird setup have to do with this or the DoJ? Manning was tried under a totally different system than Snowden would be as I understand it.

Because the rot starts right from the top.

Even as they exposed new details of the interrogation program, Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder, offered the first definitive assurance that those CIA officials are in the clear, as long as their actions were in line with the legal advice at the time.

Mr. Obama said the nation must protect the identity of CIA contractors and employees "as vigilantly as they protect our security."

"We have been through a dark and painful chapter in our history," the president said. "But at a time of great challenges and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past."

Holder told the CIA that the government would provide free legal representation to CIA employees in any legal proceeding or congressional investigation related to the program and would repay any financial judgment.

"It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the Justice Department," Holder said.

The Obama administration has used the Espionage Act of 1917 to prosecute twice as many people in five years as every other administration has in ninety. Even if you believe that Manning's treatment is a complete coincidence, you can look at how they treated John Kiriakou compared to the war criminals he outed.

[Broomstick]

"It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the Justice Department," Holder said.

Excuse me? Didn't the Nuremburg trials settle the matter, that just following orders wasn't a good enough excuse?

[Darth Nostril]

That only applies to non 'murikans.
Team 'Murika, World Police get to rewrite the rules as they see fit because 'murika fuck yeah!

[White Haven]

Any chance we could keep the zero-content cheap shots to a minumum? This is enough of a charged topic without them, and my eyes just about roll out of my head whenever I see another.

[Eulogy]

There's no good reason to trust the American "justice" system because the US has pissed away what goodwill it had over the last decade and a half over things like enhanced interrogation techniques torture of people, handling whistleblowers and war criminals like cartoon villains, and pointless, wasteful military adventures. General incompetence and corruption doesn't help either.

When remaining in Russia is a better long-term option for someone's well-being and freedoms than coming back to a country he knows is going to toss him in front of a kangaroo court, you know the US done goofed.

[Vympel]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ionage-act

Daniel Ellsberg on Kerry's disengenuous remarks.

[Spekio]

The thing you are not understanding is that I am not comparing if the U.S. is better or worse than Russia.

The point is: The U.S. can be considered an authoritarian country. They make up enemies, lock foreign brown people in cuba for looking wrong, justify their wars as "protecting their freedoms", spy on their own citizens because "freedom", and shit on their own citizens when they try to bring to light their illegal acts.