Modern World STGOD Concept

[madd0ct0r]

@seige - I love your ideas for the India princedoms, I'd quite happily roll with that.

[Thanas]

Fiddling with the history of military procurement in my country and wondering:

The typical late-WWII fleet carrier designs (the US Essex, the British Audacious, no others come to mind) tipped the scales at about 35000 to 40000 tons. This was about the minimum size of ship that was capable of flying the jet fighters of the 1950s and '60s, down the road.

Is there anybody who would have been looking to sell off such a carrier, one designed and completed right around the tail end of our WWII-equivalent, to Umeria in the early 1970s?

Rheinland has dozens of those around and would sell them to everybody who wants some. Essex analogues.

[Thanas]

If Thanas doesn't object, I could justify Alaskas from Cascadia by saying that Nippon had developed a fast raiding cruiser that was too fast for normal battlecruisers and could outgun everything else fast enough to catch them. So Cascadia built the Lightning-class "Large Cruiser", but only completed three before canceling the others due to the need for carriers to fight Nippon and Klavostan.

Nah no objections.

Does this make sense to anyone? Any idea on how I can express the mistake in the language?

Well, let's say the official lingua franca of treaties of that time used to be old Rhenish (latin). In that case, lower and upper would be used as desginators, with lower being the one closer to the sea and upper being the one further removed from the sea. Which is why the northern province of Germany was called the lower province, despite being situated higher on a modern map.

Maybe something similar to this, with the delegates holding talks in modern languages but one side thinking the discussions are already taking place in treaty language?

[Simon_Jester]

If Thanas doesn't object, I could justify Alaskas from Cascadia by saying that Nippon had developed a fast raiding cruiser that was too fast for normal battlecruisers and could outgun everything else fast enough to catch them. So Cascadia built the Lightning-class "Large Cruiser", but only completed three before canceling the others due to the need for carriers to fight Nippon and Klavostan.

Or I could justify the Alaskas as convoy escorts to stop cruiser raiding of unaligned shipping.

Or they could have been built because someone expected to need to counter fast raiders that never actually existed; if WWII had gone on a little longer this is exactly what would have happened in real life.

They wouldn't be the first weapon designed as a counter to a threat that never materialized.

Simon: Tianguo has been a big fan of aviation for quite a while, especially naval aviation. It would have had a large carrier of the correct vintage. One that hadn't seen combat even.

Again, the analogy is something like HMS Audacious or the postwar Ark Royal, but yes. I think I'll just kick back for a bit, then flip a coin to decide whose carrier it is.

@seige - I love your ideas for the India princedoms, I'd quite happily roll with that.

Agreed. Although the Umerians themselves would not actually have much high respect for the nation that 'imitates' them.

In this iteration the Umerian governing elite are scholar-bureaucrats with a strong sense of fiduciary responsibility to the State, rather than pure academics.

[Thanas]

Simon: Tianguo has been a big fan of aviation for quite a while, especially naval aviation. It would have had a large carrier of the correct vintage. One that hadn't seen combat even.

Again, the analogy is something like HMS Audacious or the postwar Ark Royal, but yes. I think I'll just kick back for a bit, then flip a coin to decide whose carrier it is.

Rheinland does offer training and cheap spare parts plus a replacement ship if needed (considering we got a lot of those ships around). And we also offer a huge fleet of escort crafts built for the purpose of escorting that carrier. We are after all the merchants of death.

[Siege]

This is the mods' proposal for player GDP. GDP is assigned in tiers of 4-5, 5-6, 6-7 and 7-8 trillion. If you want less than this you can. These are a hard upper bounds. Also keep in mind that GDP only serves as an indication of relative economic strength. I'm not going to spreadsheet out if your army expansion project is feasible, and I doubt Steve will. If we feel you're being a powergaming munchkin rocks will fall on your nation and no amount of complaining about how big your GDP is will save you.

Having said that, if you feel there's an issue with this list let us know.

GDP

NORTH AMERICA
Cascadia 7-8
Dreisgrond 5-6
Tianguo 6-7
Komradistan 5-6
Isla Aurum 4-5

EURASIA
Rheinland 7-8
Granadia 4-5
Kagaria 4-5
UOCSR 5-6

AUSTRAFRICA
Apelia 4-5
San Dorado 7-8
Corona 5-6
Champa 4-5
Umeria 5-6

SOUTH AMERICA
Orion 4-5

[Eternal_Freedom]

Sounds good to me. 4-5 trillion dollars is already about 3 times more than what I expected to have initially, so it gives me plenty of options. If possible, I'll settle on the higher end of that limit.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Fuso and Hawai'i are both missing from the GDP listing for some reason.

[Beowulf]

Fuso and Hawai'i are both missing from the GDP listing for some reason.

Well, it's listed by continent, and you're not on a continent. Have only yourselves to blame...

On a similar note, Arcadia is missing too.

[Siege]

Whoops. Looks like I might have missed a few... Apologies. If you're not listed give us a heads up and we'll try to correct the error ASAP.

Fuso 6-7
Hawai'i 4-5
Arcadia 4-5

[Simon_Jester]

"Austrafrica" is hard to pronounce.

Hm. Putting myself smack in the middle of the suggested range for aesthetic reasons...

Okay, I originally laid out the area for the country at about 3.2 million square miles on the assumption of 450 million people, to give a population density comparable to China (Umeria's hinterland is more 'forested mountains' and less desert, but whatever). That gives a per capita GDP of roughly 12200 $/person, roughly 10% higher than the World Bank's 2011-12 estimate, and roughly 20% higher than the IMF's 2012 estimate. Sounds about right.

Sounds good to me. 4-5 trillion dollars is already about 3 times more than what I expected to have initially, so it gives me plenty of options. If possible, I'll settle on the higher end of that limit.

With a population of forty million, this range gives you a per capita GDP on par with Qatar, which is a small petrostate with more oil than its own citizens could use in ten thousand years. I can only assume resource extraction plays a really major role in your national economy. Better hope those mines don't play out.

On another note, San Dorado also has the same per capita GDP as Qatar, but as I understand it, Siege has already made it explicit that this is made possible by a process analogous to the one at work in Qatar: a number of extremely lucrative transnational firms make their headquarters there. Their incomes count for San Dorado's GDP... but much of the population consists of tenement and favela-dwellers who come to San Dorado to cook and clean toilets for the real citizens, and if it weren't for the transnationals, San Dorado would drop pretty sharply in per capita GDP.

[Yes, San Dorado not really having a government means maybe I shouldn't be talking about it having 'citizens' either, but I have to be able to use some kind of vocabulary to describe the place from a sociological point of view]

[Steve]

Or he can raise his population to match.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Hence why I said a few pages back that I need a bigger population. 80 million brings it down to ~$62000 per capita. May need a higher population, 120 million brings the GDP to $41,666 per capita

And yeah, resource extraction and processing is a big part of our economy. We're one of the major suppliers of heavy metals and Thorium, along with a steady export of precious stones that came out of the extinct volcano. Then again, a good chunk of that GDP will be coming from the mining operations we have going on in the Three Kingdoms on the mainland, so we have plenty to dig up.

Also, something that's rather amusing given your points, as I recall Corona had an even smaller popoulation but it has a GDP of 5-6 trillion

[Skywalker_T-65]

Four trillion is actually about where I had Arcadia inked out at last estimate ironically. I think I'll go with 4.5 though...I may up that to the upper limit of 5, but we'll see how plotting out my military goes.

Still, 4.5 at a population of 95 million gives a fairly decent amount of per-capita: ~48,000 to be exact.

[Steve]

Well,preferably, if a player feels they were given too much for their concept, they can accept a lower number.

[Thanas]

Just to let everybody know - I'll be away the next week with only sporadic Internet access, so I don't know how much I can be online.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I've tentatively upped my population to 100 million giving me a nice round GDP of $50,000 per capita.

[Siege]

San Dorado's GDP is made possible by its oversized international footprint. The city-state itself is tiny, but its corporations have extensive holdings and interests everywhere whose produced goods and services are counted as part of its GDP. The number reflects the megacorporations' pure economic muscle more than anything else.

[Simon_Jester]

Exactamundo, Siege-o.

Hence why I said a few pages back that I need a bigger population. 80 million brings it down to ~$62000 per capita. May need a higher population, 120 million brings the GDP to $41,666 per capita

And yeah, resource extraction and processing is a big part of our economy. We're one of the major suppliers of heavy metals and Thorium, along with a steady export of precious stones that came out of the extinct volcano. Then again, a good chunk of that GDP will be coming from the mining operations we have going on in the Three Kingdoms on the mainland, so we have plenty to dig up.

Also, something that's rather amusing given your points, as I recall Corona had an even smaller popoulation but it has a GDP of 5-6 trillion

I had forgotten about Corona.

More generally, I observe that as the population density on your island grows, the ability to feed it declines a bit- I mean, Japan also has volcanic soils and stuff, but they're not self-sufficient in food, or for that matter coal, iron, oil, or timber.

No wonder you've got economic dependencies on the mainland; you need the reliable supplies of raw materials.
_________________________

P.S. I'm at least starting to think about what to do with NPC nations 20 and 21. Neither of them is a Umerian dependency, though one of them may be a former province that the Umerians still feel grumpy about losing. How it became lost, I haven't worked out yet.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Yeah, now that you mention it it does allow for closer trading relationships with the Three Kingdoms. That works rather well. Perhaps there may yet be further talk of a United Kingdom. Or an Empire, because an Empire sounds cool

[Esquire]

I'm just under Japan GDP-wise, exactly where I wanted to be. Perfect!

[The Romulan Republic]

Hence why I said a few pages back that I need a bigger population. 80 million brings it down to ~$62000 per capita. May need a higher population, 120 million brings the GDP to $41,666 per capita

And yeah, resource extraction and processing is a big part of our economy. We're one of the major suppliers of heavy metals and Thorium, along with a steady export of precious stones that came out of the extinct volcano. Then again, a good chunk of that GDP will be coming from the mining operations we have going on in the Three Kingdoms on the mainland, so we have plenty to dig up.

Also, something that's rather amusing given your points, as I recall Corona had an even smaller popoulation but it has a GDP of 5-6 trillion

Corona's GDP should probably be lower than yours. Corona not only has a small population, it also has serious economic problems. I established this very early on and I don't recall changing it, nor do I wish to.

[The Romulan Republic]

What's a realistic GDP for a country with 18 million people that was first world but is currently suffering from a major deficit and debt and a lot of unemployment?

[Simon_Jester]

Well, your floor is probably the Greeks; at their per capita GDP you'd have a GDP of just about exactly 400 billion a year.

[Theirs is 250 billion a year, but they're just a hair under 2/3 your size]

[TimothyC]

Even with an optimistic number for GDP, the Unified Kingdoms are not at all likely to break 300 Billion for GDP (5 million people total).