Game of Thrones Season 4 discussion (book spoilers included)

[Spekio]

That 'someone' can be 'the whole of the north', you know. Littlefinger has to be aware how everyone there hates Boltons and Freys, producing Sansa is likely to get both houses quickly develop several cases of Angrybeheading.

With North, Vale, and Riverlands all supporting him and Lannisters quickly going down the drain in Book 5 Littlefinger as of now can grab half of the seven kingdoms all by himself, hell, maybe even go for the throne if Connington and Iron Isles weaken last relatively untouched pro-throne big house enough, doubly so if he can make deal with Dorne. Yes, it would take some scheming, but as of now, he has better shot than anyone else.

Well, I'll give to you that it is possible, however unlikely.

[Pelranius]

Barristan seems to be more and more uncomfortable around Daenarys. Wonder how their relationship will develop once the Sons of the Harpy start striking?

[Mr Bean]

I finally started watching the reaction videos.



I enjoy so much the sullied taping the unsullied to get their reactions. It's not been this good since Season 1 with Ned's death. There is the denials like Ned but the violence of it is so much worse. The reactions.... they fill me with joy. A sick twisted joy.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The reactions.... they fill me with joy. A sick twisted joy.

Meh. Some reactions are amusing. Mostly I find the whole "reaction video" fad to be incredibly condescending and obnoxious. It's just another way for people who already know what's going to happen to feel smug about it.

Yeah. The Vale kind of just ignored it though. Lysa made everyone call Robert the 'true Warden of the East'

I remembered that much. Just wasn't sure who the official Iron Throne-approved Warden of the East ended up being. Because it sure as hell doesn't appear to be Jaime.

IIRC, Jaime was the titular Warden of the East under Robert, but during Joffrey's reign Tywin returned the title to House Arryn.

[Pelranius]

I wonder how many mercenaries Stannis and Davros have hired?

[Ralin]

The season finale will be on Father's Day.

[Alferd Packer]

"Sorry Dad, no BBQ this year. Gotta watch the GoT finale."

Nice thing is, he's reading the books right now, so he gets it.

Anyway, great episode last night. They hit all the major points they needed, and handled the book deviations well(the presence of Alliser Thorne and Janos Slynt). Tormund is awesome, as always. I don't like their treatment of the Thenns, but maybe I will eventually. We'll see. What a friggin' season.

[Ralin]

"Sorry Dad, no BBQ this year. Gotta watch the GoT finale."

Nice thing is, he's reading the books right now, so he gets it.

I think you're missing the reason why this is funny.

Anyway, great episode last night. They hit all the major points they needed, and handled the book deviations well(the presence of Alliser Thorne and Janos Slynt). Tormund is awesome, as always. I don't like their treatment of the Thenns, but maybe I will eventually. We'll see. What a friggin' season.

I don't like changing the Thenns from the most civilized people north of the Wall to cannibal marauders, but really you can't tell the people making a show like this that there are fucking ice cannibals out there and not expect them to find a way to work that in.

[Mr Bean]

They killed Pyp AND Grenn. Fuck so how exactly are they going to show The cold Lord Snow if he does not have his friends to show his increasing detachment. We are down to Jon, Sam and Edd.

Maybe it means Edd gets more lines, the lack of Dolorous Edd Tollett lines.

[Alferd Packer]

I don't like changing the Thenns from the most civilized people north of the Wall to cannibal marauders, but really you can't tell the people making a show like this that there are fucking ice cannibals out there and not expect them to find a way to work that in.

Yeah. Though it would be interesting to show them to be civilized cannibals, for want of better term. The Thenns' feudal social structure, combined with their savagery, could be a not-so-subtle dig at the brutality of what is essentially the same social structure south of the Wall.

[Lord Relvenous]

I don't like changing the Thenns from the most civilized people north of the Wall to cannibal marauders, but really you can't tell the people making a show like this that there are fucking ice cannibals out there and not expect them to find a way to work that in.

Yeah. Though it would be interesting to show them to be civilized cannibals, for want of better term. The Thenns' feudal social structure, combined with their savagery, could be a not-so-subtle dig at the brutality of what is essentially the same social structure south of the Wall.

I can see why they're doing it.
Spoiler

By establishing the Thenns as horrible barbaric cannibals, D&D are making it easier for viewers to understand why the Night's Watch is so opposed to Jon's decision to allow wildlings past the wall. If they were civilized, we would have the regular wildlings (which are made somewhat sympathetic through Ygritte and Tormund) and another group of wildlings that viewers could potentially say "well, they're not that bad."

As with most of their changes, it's made because subtlety and large television audiences don't really mix.

[Raw Shark]

Sure, but they could've kept the Thenns as they are written and teamed them up with or swapped them out for one of the tribes that actually are wild, face-eating freaks in the books for purposes of the raid. The Hornfeet, the blue-painted cave guys... pretty much anybody else besides the Thenns would've still made for colorful TV.

[Ralin]

Sure, but they could've kept the Thenns as they are written and teamed them up with or swapped them out for one of the tribes that actually are wild, face-eating freaks in the books for purposes of the raid. The Hornfeet, the blue-painted cave guys... pretty much anybody else besides the Thenns would've still made for colorful TV.

The Thenns were chosen in the books specifically because they were the one group of wildlings that could consistently be expected to follow orders and practice something resembling military discipline. The show didn't play that up much, but it didn't contradict it either, and sending the insane face-eating ice cannibals along for the ride on the important and difficult special ops mission would have been even dumber.

I mean, maybe it's just me but at if nothing else I got the impression that the show Thenns were competent and organized murder cannibals whom I can buy Mance Rayder deciding where the best for the job.

[Pelranius]

I was a bit put out that they didn't show Stannis coming in (had been looking forward all week to that).

Going back Stannis's loan from the Iron Bank, how good is the latter's intelligence gathering capability? If they know that the Lannister gold mines have run dry, it makes a look more sense to back Stannis at least a little bit.

[Vympel]

I was a bit put out that they didn't show Stannis coming in (had been looking forward all week to that).

Same - now I'm stuck waiting all week all over again

[Minischoles]

God the last episode is going to have to be PACKED to get everything in that they need to.

[Vympel]

The last episode is 66 minutes long (longest ever) so I wouldn't worry about it.

[LaCroix]

I was a bit put out that they didn't show Stannis coming in (had been looking forward all week to that).

Same - now I'm stuck waiting all week all over again

Stannis only arrived when Jon was talking to Mance after the first assault was beaten back, so they kept to the books this time.

[Vympel]

Yeah, I just assumed they'd have it all in one episode.

[Pelranius]

Well, I wonder if they'll have Stannis interact with Maester Aemon (Stannis is his great nephew after all, in show canon)? Aemon and Shireen would get along famously (just keep Melisandre away from the two of them).

[Mr Bean]

So many table flipping moments.. so fucking many

1. They cut the "She's been fucking around" speech between Tyrion and Jamie killing a key element of Jamie's character from here on in
2. They cut Shae saying anything to Tyrion to set him off
3. Yer a Wizard.... serious WTF the Children throwing Fireballs?
4. Oh hey look it's Blood Raven, who looks... GREAT for a half tree person.. Serious GoT you show a man's head exploding but can't show a man who's part tree?
5. Jojen dies now... he's due to die but seriously why now unless they are going to carve Mera up for treepaste


They capture some moments so well only to make changes that only make the show worse in times to come even if it let them save a few seconds here and there.
And they ended it when they did. I have to wait a year to see The House of Black and White? Come on show you have a perfect bookend with the creepy house, the creepy man and the doors closing and you end it on the voyage over?

I hope I hope this means Season 5 Episode 1 is The House of Black and White

[JLTucker]

I have not read the books, but I would like to make a request. I read this during an AVCLub live chat about the season finale:

sonia saraiya:
uhhh hard to explain to a non-book fan, but basically a big reveal was ignored for some reason? And we've all been waiting for it!

Can someone PM me this spoiler? I'm not waiting 42 weeks to find out. Thanks!

[Spekio]

So, I'll watch it tonight, but... did our favorite undead turn up?

[Dominus Atheos]

I have not read the books, but I would like to make a request. I read this during an AVCLub live chat about the season finale:

sonia saraiya:
uhhh hard to explain to a non-book fan, but basically a big reveal was ignored for some reason? And we've all been waiting for it!

Can someone PM me this spoiler? I'm not waiting 42 weeks to find out. Thanks!

Not exactly. A plot point was cut from the show, but you don't have to worry because it won't be brought up in 42 weeks, or (probably) ever.

Here is the wiki's description of the event:

Tyrion met Tysha on a lonely road, where she was being accosted by some men. Tyrion's brother, Jaime Lannister, drove off the men while Tyrion took care of her. She was a crofter's daughter, orphaned when her father died of an illness. Tyrion fell in love with her and married her, even though he was only thirteen years old.

When Lord Tywin Lannister found out, he had Jaime tell Tyrion that Tysha was a whore who had been paid to make Tyrion a man. Tywin then had her passed around among his guards to have sex with her; for each guard, he gave her a silver. To drive the lesson home, Tywin forced his son to be the last man, for whom Tysha was paid a gold coin, because Lannisters were worth more

...

When Jaime rescued Tyrion from prison he confessed that Tysha was no whore. Tyrion realised that Tysha had been genuinely in love with him, and became furious with Jaime. He left his brother to find his own way out of the Red Keep. During his escape, he came to his father's rooms. Tyrion demanded his father tell him what had happened to Tysha. Tywin did not remember, simply stating that she went "wherever whores go". Tyrion slew him with a crossbow and escaped

[Mr Bean]

That's the spoiler and it's such a WTF because from then on Tyrion thinks "wherever whores go" for the next BOOK while Jamie is thinking "She's fucking Lancel and Osmend Kettleblack and Moonboy for all I know" as he goes around becoming what he will become.

It sets up the two paths of Tyrion falling into major depression as he thinks back on killing his father and Shae while finding out Tysha was exactly what she appeared to be... a girl who loved him, someone he watched get rapped by an entire barracks full of people. It drives him into a funk and turns him semi-sucidal and makes him determined to take back what is his (Castley Rock)

Meanwhile Jamie is seeing that his twin has been cheating on him with other men and she tells him to his face she's always lied to him. Someone he's thought of his other half his entire life... and it sets him on a different path one in which he ends up wanting to redeem his honor and becoming someone people can be inspired by rather than just in it for himself.

Both of their motivations taken away.. the events occur but the pivotal conversation does not. Imagine Star wars if Vadar simply boots Luke into the void in cloud city without saying a word... the entire third act of Jedi can't occur the same way because of it. This is a change of similar magnitude.