Magis wrote:Welf wrote:An important premise is wrong, that hits the rest pretty bad. Companies that pay taxes on profits make by definition profit and thus can't go bankrupt.
This really isn't true. A company can be profitable, and therefore pay taxes, while at the same time being massively cashflow negative and unable to meet debt obligations. And of course, things like payroll taxes are paid by all businesses whether they are profitable or not.
If a profitable company goes bankrupt because of short term liquidity constraints it means the financial system is broken. A company could just as well go bankrupt because it has to pay vendor invoices, payroll or because a customer doesn't pay on time. I'm not saying this is not a factor, I saw first hand how companies have to juggle with cash and panic when the day of payment approaches, but this is not something that should happen to a company with good outlook and good financial planning. And financial authorities can make payment plans, too (at least here they do because they want companies to survive and pay more taxes).
Payroll taxes are paid by all business, but are something that can be planned in advance.
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Welf wrote:An important premise is wrong, that hits the rest pretty bad. Companies that pay taxes on profits make by definition profit and thus can't go bankrupt.
This is what I was referring to with the "a bit hyperbolic" comment. The point still stands, it just means that smaller corporations take home a smaller percentage of profit vs being run out of business entirely.
Why does the point stand? If I understood that right, the initial thesis was, that smaller and medium corporations go out of business because of the tax difference (Please correct me if I'm wrong). Now the thesis is, that small businesses make less profits.
What does that mean?
Do they make too small profits to invest the optimum amount? That claim is not so obvious as it may seem. There are signs that profits are too high for megacorps currently, meaning that maybe lower profits for small companies are still sufficient for an optimal investment rate.
Second, do small and medium sized companies pay the full 35% on their real profits? They do pay on what they report, but what about indirect benefits? Company owners that work in their companies can get additional profits by buying expensive cars, always fly 1st class and take the best hotel rooms. That is not taxable but still a profit. Small companies or self employed people get away with a lot of crap because it's usually not worth the trouble to dig too deep into their stuff. Tax authorities tend to be understaffed and overworked, so checking every invoice to maybe get a few hundred bucks out of it when they can get much more elsewhere.
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Also, mega companies usually get most competition from medium sized companies who can hire small mercenary bands of lawyers themselves.
Sure, but a regional corporation will have a much harder time running their operations through Ireland and headquartering in the Cayman Islands to reap maximum tax savings, thus putting them at a significant competitive disadvantage.
This isn't a matter of regional or not. You just need to hire someone to set it up. At places like the Jersey islands it's not uncommon for locals to be CEO of several dozen companies or house a few hundred headquarters in your 90 m² apartment.
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Also, American companies have to pay taxes on their world income. Which means everything they earn. They can postpone the taxation by not returning the profits to the US. Reducing the income rate to 0 would solve that. But they still would produce there because the labour is cheaper. The only thing it would change is that the state takes in even less money and had no money for infrastructure and education, making outsourcing even more profitable.
Cheap labor only gets you so far if it comes from countries that do not have adequate infrastructure and education systems, especially after increases in transportation costs due to fuel prices and the increase in labor costs in countries like China which previously had a high quality workforce with good infrastructure but cheap labor. Most of the goods that benefitted from outsourcing in past decades can be produced even more cheaply in developed nations with automation (unless the tax code rewards outsourcing, that is).
The reduction in tax receipts would, of course, be offset. The best way to accomplish this would probably be to eliminate the differential treatment of capital gains and dividends, but however it is done, it would be easy to make it revenue-neutral.
First, I support this suggestion to eliminate the differential. Second, I'm not sure I would work. With high enough income you can employ the same lawyers and consultants and avoid taxes just as well as corporation (Obligatory Mitt Romney
link). And if it's possible to get rid of the loopholes for individuals, why not also for corporations? And in doubt you can transfer all your money to a trust or company, as did Romney.