Elizabeth Smart's kidnappers charged with rape

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-03-18 07:33pm

Sokar wrote:
phongn wrote:Prison inmates tend to have a very dim view of kidnapping and child rape.
They will have to move him to a solitary or super-max facility, if he doesn't go straight there from his trial. Even thieves and killers have their own code of ethics and child rapists don't survive very long in the general population. My dad works for the Westville Super-Max in Westville IN, and about 60% of their inmates are child molesters and snitches who would only survive for about 5mins in the general population.

So he either goes into genpop and gets his shit packed by gangbangers and armed robbers, or he spends the rest of his life in 23-hour lockdown in almost total isolation from the rest of humanity.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-18 07:39pm

I love how the apologists come out of the woodwork saying that this guy was obviously delusional for thinking God told him to rape her.

Newsflash: So are you.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-18 08:17pm

Darth Servo wrote:
neoolong wrote:It still leaves her with:

1. God let it happen.

2. God wanted it to happen.

3. God doesn't give a fuck.

4. God doesn't exist.
5. God isn't omnipotent after all.

That would fall under God let it happen. Either he doesn't have the capacity to actually change it, so he let it happen, or he doesn't want to interfere, so he let it happen.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-18 08:18pm

Sea Skimmer wrote: Replace 9 months with 49 years and I'm happy. Rapists should get life or at least several decades minimal. Shits have something like a 70% reoffense rate.

Fuck that shit.

A hanging at dawn.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-18 08:26pm

Durandal wrote:I love how the apologists come out of the woodwork saying that this guy was obviously delusional for thinking God told him to rape her.

Newsflash: So are you.

And the Hard Kore Atheists come crawling out of the woodwork saying
that God cannot exist because bad shit like this happens.

Either way, it's immaterial as this piece of shit has sealed his
fate in both this life and the life beyond this one.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-03-19 01:51am

RedImperator wrote:
Sokar wrote:
phongn wrote:Prison inmates tend to have a very dim view of kidnapping and child rape.
They will have to move him to a solitary or super-max facility, if he doesn't go straight there from his trial. Even thieves and killers have their own code of ethics and child rapists don't survive very long in the general population. My dad works for the Westville Super-Max in Westville IN, and about 60% of their inmates are child molesters and snitches who would only survive for about 5mins in the general population.
So he either goes into genpop and gets his shit packed by gangbangers and armed robbers, or he spends the rest of his life in 23-hour lockdown in almost total isolation from the rest of humanity.

They won't bother pimping him out for cigaretts, they will probably just shank him at their earliest oportunity. Criminals guilty of crimes aginst kids almost invariably go into prootective custody. They are at the absolute bottom of the barrel of the felon heiarchy, and fair game for everybody in the prision. No group will shelter them or protect them in anyway, so off to protective solitary they go. At Westville its 23hrs a day in a 6'x12' cell, only time out is a hour period for a shower and rec time, which is eiether in a enclosed court with a barred skylight over it , or a gym with clear walls so that the CO(Custody Officers)'s can watch his every move. Offenders move from the cell to rec/shower accompanied by 2 CO's and are both hand and ankle cuffed. Make no mistake , these are eiether snitches and bitches, or they are the worst that the Indiana prision system has to offer. The snitches and child offenders are often the best behaved, as they know that to be elsewhere means a likely midnight execution with a sharpened screwdriver to the kidneys, but the others are bad, bad motherfuckers, Id tell some stories , but I could get my dad in trouble. I'll just close with this , be thankful there are prisions, you or I would stand no chance with a majority of these animals.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-03-19 03:07am

RedImperator wrote: Constitutionally, the charges brought against the kidnappers have to be made public. They didn't come out and say she was raped, but the fact that Mitchell is being charged with rape is a matter of public record by law, and obviously, if he's being charged with it, the DA's office thinks it happened.

Why? Where is it in the constitution that a named person who's famous for kidnapping a named person is being charged with certain offences? In what waydoes it help the public to be able to have long discussions about a young girls pain?

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-03-19 03:12am

MKSheppard wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote: Replace 9 months with 49 years and I'm happy. Rapists should get life or at least several decades minimal. Shits have something like a 70% reoffense rate.
Fuck that shit.

A hanging at dawn.

Yeah, cause that's a good idea. Let's give every rapists who lets his victim live the same punishment or worse as a murderer. That way they'll really have the motivation to continue to let girls live to testify.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-03-19 03:19am

Stoning....

Nah I just wish that in cases like this, that Furies were not just mythological children of Zeus and Hera.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-19 03:19am

MKSheppard wrote:
Durandal wrote:I love how the apologists come out of the woodwork saying that this guy was obviously delusional for thinking God told him to rape her.

Newsflash: So are you.

And the Hard Kore Atheists come crawling out of the woodwork saying
that God cannot exist because bad shit like this happens.

No, that's NOT why it's being said. It's being said because the perp DOES believe God wanted him to do it. It's just another example of religion serving as a facilitator for stupid or evil shit.

Either way, it's immaterial as this piece of shit has sealed his
fate in both this life and the life beyond this one.

Yes, but figuring out his motivations is still important.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-03-19 03:26am

Sokar wrote: I'll just close with this , be thankful there are prisions, you or I would stand no chance with a majority of these animals.

That's probably true, which is why I'm all for the death penately for these type of hard core criminals.

Including those who rape children.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-03-19 06:15am

innerbrat wrote: Yeah, cause that's a good idea. Let's give every rapists who lets his victim live the same punishment or worse as a murderer. That way they'll really have the motivation to continue to let girls live to testify.

Rape used to be a CAPITAL CRIME in this country. Place has been
going to hell ever since they downgraded it from a capital crime.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-03-19 07:05am

MKSheppard wrote:
Rape used to be a CAPITAL CRIME in this country. Place has been
going to hell ever since they downgraded it from a capital crime.

When was this, eactly, and what was the survival rate of rape victims? Especially as we're trying to get more victims to come forward and tetsify, why would a man facing death anyway let his victim live?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-03-19 10:26am

neoolong wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:
neoolong wrote:It still leaves her with:

1. God let it happen.

2. God wanted it to happen.

3. God doesn't give a fuck.

4. God doesn't exist.
5. God isn't omnipotent after all.
That would fall under God let it happen. Either he doesn't have the capacity to actually change it, so he let it happen, or he doesn't want to interfere, so he let it happen.

I disagree. Usually if someone "lets something happen" that person has the power to prevent it from happening. If I see a crime being committed but I'm too far away to stop it and have no way of contacting the police, did I "let it happen"?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-19 10:31am

Fine, whatever.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-03-19 10:56am

Darth Servo wrote:
neoolong wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:5. God isn't omnipotent after all.
That would fall under God let it happen. Either he doesn't have the capacity to actually change it, so he let it happen, or he doesn't want to interfere, so he let it happen.
I disagree. Usually if someone "lets something happen" that person has the power to prevent it from happening. If I see a crime being committed but I'm too far away to stop it and have no way of contacting the police, did I "let it happen"?

isn't the whole point here that Elizabeth really should be reanalyzing her faith in a God who would not only let, but supposedly ENCOURAGE something like that to happen?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-03-19 10:59am

Does anyone know precisely why the Smarts are angry that the man was charged with rape? I mean as a parent if someone raped my daughter I would want the full force of every charge I could possibly get to stick to the SOB, so why were they adamant that rape not be included as a charge?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-19 12:05pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:isn't the whole point here that Elizabeth really should be reanalyzing her faith in a God who would not only let, but supposedly ENCOURAGE something like that to happen?

Of course. But she's Mormon. There was a lot of brainwashing going on before she got kidnapped. This may spur her to reanalyze her faith. But I wouldn't get my hopes up.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-03-19 01:30pm

innerbrat wrote:Why? Where is it in the constitution that a named person who's famous for kidnapping a named person is being charged with certain offences? In what waydoes it help the public to be able to have long discussions about a young girls pain?

Sixth amendment: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial". The charges against the accused must be made public. Now, they don't have to hold a news conference to do this, or even, so far as I know, place a public notice in the local newspaper, but the charges filed against the defendent by law are public record and can be accessed and reprinted/transmitted by anyone. The Salt Lake City district attorney probably held the conference because if he didn't, his office was going to be innundated with requests from every news outlet in the country demanding to know what charges have been filed. You can argue the morality of the media making this case so public, but the district attorney had no choice.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-03-19 07:20pm

Stravo wrote:Does anyone know precisely why the Smarts are angry that the man was charged with rape? I mean as a parent if someone raped my daughter I would want the full force of every charge I could possibly get to stick to the SOB, so why were they adamant that rape not be included as a charge?

Maybe because they're not comfotable with haivng something as upsettign and persoanl as the rape of tehir daughter being paraded in front ot the public and insensitively discussed on public forums.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-19 08:45pm

innerbrat wrote:
Stravo wrote:Does anyone know precisely why the Smarts are angry that the man was charged with rape? I mean as a parent if someone raped my daughter I would want the full force of every charge I could possibly get to stick to the SOB, so why were they adamant that rape not be included as a charge?
Maybe because they're not comfotable with haivng something as upsettign and persoanl as the rape of tehir daughter being paraded in front ot the public and insensitively discussed on public forums.

If it means letting the guy off with a lesser charge, I would have the same attitude as Stravo. It doesn't seem like they don't want it mentioned in public, but that they don't want to admit it happened, hence him not being charged with it.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-03-19 10:09pm

But Yocom said, "We're not dealing with a religious zealot ... we're dealing with a predatory sex offender" and the charges reflect that.

Welcome to Utah.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-19 10:24pm

Stravo wrote:Does anyone know precisely why the Smarts are angry that the man was charged with rape? I mean as a parent if someone raped my daughter I would want the full force of every charge I could possibly get to stick to the SOB, so why were they adamant that rape not be included as a charge?

In the old world, people often tended to blame the victim of rape for inciting the rapist. This tradition dates all the way back to Bath-Sheba, who is still routinely criticized by conservative theologians for causing David to rape her by bathing in the nude. Given the fact that the family is Mormon, it's not surprising that they would prefer to cover up her rape, because in some twisted, dark corner of their social reactionary minds, they probably feel that it somehow makes their daughter look bad.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-19 10:36pm

Well now we know mormons are morons

And this blaming the victims is fucking dumb its the rapist who`s to blame the fucker had an erection

David · Post by **David** » 2003-03-19 10:43pm

Hasn't a thread like this been already been started in SLM?