Redskins lose copyright to 'hateful slur' name after tradema

[mr friendly guy]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-19/w ... me/5534506

US football team Washington Redskins lose copyright to 'hateful slur' name after trademark office ruling

The name of the American football team the Washington Redskins is disparaging to native Americans and the trademark should be cancelled, the US Patent and Trademark Office has ruled.

The decision, which the American football team can appeal, is a victory for American Indians and their supporters for whom "redskins" is racially charged word.

In a statement, the Patent Office said five Native American petitioners had "met their burden to establish that the term 'Redskins' was disparaging of Native Americans, when used in relation to professional football services".

While the team can keep using the name, it will no longer enjoy the protection from copyright infringement and counterfeiting that comes with federal registration, it said.

Dan Snyder, owner of the National Football League (NFL) franchise, has been adamant about retaining the name despite a growing national campaign spearheaded by the Oneida tribe in upstate New York.

Oneida tribe spokesman Ray Halbritter says the community supports the ruling.

"If the most basic sense of morality, decency and civility has not yet convinced the Washington team and the NFL to stop using this hateful slur, then hopefully today's patent ruling will," he said.

"It imperils the ability of the team's billionaire owner to keep profiting off the denigration and dehumanization of Native Americans."
Obama, Native Americans push for Redskins name change

Native Americans have long said the Redskins name is offensive, and in October 2013 president Barack Obama weighed in with his support.

"I've got to say if I were the owner of the team and I knew that the name of my team, even if they've had a storied history, that was offending a sizeable group of people, I'd think about changing it," he said.

Mr Snyder says he will never change the name and polls in the US indicate 80 per cent of the public support him.

The Redskins name is worth serious money - more than $1.5 billion - making it the fourth most valuable sports team in the world along with the likes of Manchester United.

They have been the Redskins for 80 years and won five championships.

Whether the Redskins should retain a name deemed "usually offensive" by the Merriam-Webster dictionary, and "dated offensive" by the Oxford dictionary, has been a festering issue in Washington for years.

Mr Halbritter admits that growing up he never thought much about the name of his team, but now thinks it should be changed.

"When I became a father and when I became a leader of my people, I saw how it affected our children and the way they think about themselves," he said.

"It's a name that was used when they forced us off our land at gunpoint and took our land from us.

"It was the name we were called when they took our children from our families."

ABC/AFP

Will try to comment more when time permits, but my understanding is that when they chose the name it wasn't to pay homage or praise native Americans. Moreover IIRC previous owners had a derogatory attitude to native Americans. Going on we will see the privileged whining about political correctness gone mad.

[FSTargetDrone]

Cleveland needs to lose this, too.



Anyway, Washington has a big opportunity. Do the right thing and to come up with a new name, perhaps by way of a contest. Imagine all the new jerseys, baseball hats and other paraphernalia they could sell sporting the new name.

[Purple]

Will try to comment more when time permits, but my understanding is that when they chose the name it wasn't to pay homage or praise native Americans. Moreover IIRC previous owners had a derogatory attitude to native Americans. Going on we will see the privileged whining about political correctness gone mad.

Well... Maybe this is from an European perspective... and our schools did only gloss over the whole american colonization thing for obvious reasons. But to me it kind of feels like it indeed is PC gone mad. I mean seriously, it's just a name. And the name of a sports team at that. It's not like the guys are going out into the field in what ever the equivalent to blackface is or actively work to degrade or insult the natives or campaign against them. And it's not like the team is named after a famous person or event related to murdering them or an equivalent. So at the end of the day it's just a mostly harmless name. I don't know. It just seems to me that if someone is insulted by the name or logo or what ever of a sports team he has no life and is generally acting spoiled more than anything.

[loomer]

Would you think this of a football team in Kosovo named after a charged and offensive slur for a Serb or Albanian?

[Thanas]

Redskins chose the name after one of their first coaches, who claimed to be native to dodge the draft (let that one sink in) and who had a rather racist and comical stereotypical view of natives (who could have seen that one coming).

Since then they are without a doubt the most racist franchise in the league, with one scumbag of an owner after the other. From Marshall who flat out had to be forced by the US Government to allow black players to play for the team to Snyder, who seems like the real-life caricature of the propaganda jew. Link. He claims that redskins is not a slur, then put up a fake focus group, then donated less than 0.1% of his profits to help natives advance.

Screw him and his team.

[The Vortex Empire]

Will try to comment more when time permits, but my understanding is that when they chose the name it wasn't to pay homage or praise native Americans. Moreover IIRC previous owners had a derogatory attitude to native Americans. Going on we will see the privileged whining about political correctness gone mad.

Well... Maybe this is from an European perspective... and our schools did only gloss over the whole american colonization thing for obvious reasons. But to me it kind of feels like it indeed is PC gone mad. I mean seriously, it's just a name. And the name of a sports team at that. It's not like the guys are going out into the field in what ever the equivalent to blackface is or actively work to degrade or insult the natives or campaign against them. And it's not like the team is named after a famous person or event related to murdering them or an equivalent. So at the end of the day it's just a mostly harmless name. I don't know. It just seems to me that if someone is insulted by the name or logo or what ever of a sports team he has no life and is generally acting spoiled more than anything.

Redskin is a racial slur. The only difference between it and a hypothetical team named the Alabama Niggers, is that Native Americans are a much smaller, less politically powerful group than African Americans, so it's easier to ignore them.

[Purple]

Redskins chose the name after one of their first coaches, who claimed to be native to dodge the draft (let that one sink in) and who had a rather racist and comical stereotypical view of natives (who could have seen that one coming).

Maybe it's because it's a comical view that I really see no problem with it. This said, I also do not really see the issue about naming their team in mockery or homage-mockery of a coach that did what he did. It's kind of funny to me more than anything.

Since then they are without a doubt the most racist franchise in the league, with one scumbag of an owner after the other. From Marshall who flat out had to be forced by the US Government to allow black players to play for the team to Snyder, who seems like the real-life caricature of the propaganda jew. Link. He claims that redskins is not a slur, then put up a fake focus group, then donated less than 0.1% of his profits to help natives advance.

Now this bit I was not informed about. Yes, if the team is filled with racist coaches and owners and stuff that are making racist problems I can see how someone might interpret the name as being racist as well. Or at least interpret a generally funny and maybe racist name as being 100% racist because it's used by people who would only ever use it in a racist way.

So yea. I guess I understand them. Thanks for the explanation.

Redskin is a racial slur. The only difference between it and a hypothetical team named the Alabama Niggers, is that Native Americans are a much smaller, less politically powerful group than African Americans, so it's easier to ignore them.

Relating to that. I actually would feel no issue with a team called "Alabama Niggers" if I knew it was not meant with evil in mind. Which it seems here not to be. The situation here if anything seems to be unique in that it was not meant in a negative way but got corrupted by evil people that came later and made it evil.

[Terralthra]

This is not the first time the Trademark Registration Board has cancelled the Redskins' trademark. Last time, the Appeals Court reversed on appeal, and it's not unlikely they'll do the same again this time.

Also, news articles that confused trademark and copyright bug the shit out of me.

[mr friendly guy]

Relating to that. I actually would feel no issue with a team called "Alabama Niggers" if I knew it was not meant with evil in mind. Which it seems here not to be. The situation here if anything seems to be unique in that it was not meant in a negative way but got corrupted by evil people that came later and made it evil.

How would you prove they had "evil in mind?" Can someone using a racial slur be believed by saying "well it wasn't malicious, because I say so?"

[Purple]

Relating to that. I actually would feel no issue with a team called "Alabama Niggers" if I knew it was not meant with evil in mind. Which it seems here not to be. The situation here if anything seems to be unique in that it was not meant in a negative way but got corrupted by evil people that came later and made it evil.

How would you prove they had "evil in mind?" Can someone using a racial slur be believed by saying "well it wasn't malicious, because I say so?"

Well basically it all comes down to the context of how and why the name was given in the first place and of the kind of people who currently hold the brand. Take for example the redskins. The name was obviously given as a semi mocking homage to that coach of theirs (thanks Thanas for informing me). So it's obviously meant to poke fun and not to be an evil nazi call for exterminating or degrading natives. Now fast forward a few decades (thanks Thanas again) and that same brand is being controlled by a bunch of racist bastards. The context has changed. And so the conclusion has changed.

[Thanas]

I don't know how you can get "mocking homage". It was conceived by a racist bastard using racist stereotypes right from the start.

[Purple]

I don't know how you can get "mocking homage". It was conceived by a racist bastard using racist stereotypes right from the start.

Maybe we have different values when it comes to being drafted. I see absolutely nothing racist or bastardly about using any means you can to dodge being drafted into the army. If anything I'd call what he did quite clever. And the stereotypical and comical view of natives fits into the tone of mockery I am referring to. Since society of the time was far more lenient when it came to that tone of humor it would have been a perfectly reasonable way of paying homage to and yet mocking the man who claimed to be a "redskin" in order to dodge his manly responsibility. And we have to judge these things based on the time they happened in.

I mean sure, if that event was to happen now it would be a WTF. But it happened when it did.

[Thanas]

I don't know how you can get "mocking homage". It was conceived by a racist bastard using racist stereotypes right from the start.

Maybe we have different values when it comes to being drafted. I see absolutely nothing racist or bastardly about using any means you can to dodge being drafted into the army. If anything I'd call what he did quite clever. And the stereotypical and comical view of natives fits into the tone of mockery I am referring to. Since society of the time was far more lenient when it came to that tone of humor it would have been a perfectly reasonable way of paying homage to and yet mocking the man who claimed to be a "redskin" in order to dodge his manly responsibility. And we have to judge these things based on the time they happened in.

I mean sure, if that event was to happen now it would be a WTF. But it happened when it did.

Let me tell you about that guy. He walked into practice dressed like an indian from those western movies. Full fake headgear and all that. He fucking knew it was racist, his usage was racist and all that.

[Purple]

Let me tell you about that guy. He walked into practice dressed like an indian from those western movies. Full fake headgear and all that. He fucking knew it was racist, his usage was racist and all that.

Maybe we just have different thresholds about what racism is. To me it sounds like he was just being funny. Especially in that time when it was more acceptable than it is today.

[Thanas]

Dude, you are talking about something you have admittedly no knowledge of and are trying to convince somebody who has actually read about this crap that your uninformed opinion based on nothing but your gut is correct. Do you realize how incredibly stupid that sounds?

[ArmorPierce]

By the same token, walking into the field with blac face on is it racist, it is just mocking homage.

Unfortunately life is not that simple. Laughing at the expense of a misrepresentation/stereotype of a minority group is part of institutional racism.

I actually like the name and the get up, but i can definitely see why they would get upset about it.

[Purple]

Dude, you are talking about something you have admittedly no knowledge of and are trying to convince somebody who has actually read about this crap that your uninformed opinion based on nothing but your gut is correct. Do you realize how incredibly stupid that sounds?

Truth there. I admit that I just got carried away by the general sense of things. Basically I just feel that there is no harm in a bit of racist humor just like there is no harm in a bit of say dead baby comedy. It might insult some people but they just have to get over them self.

In this case you are clearly right. But in general I remain unconvinced.

[ArmorPierce]

Thats the issue though. You have the priviledged majority people in power telling the disenfranchised and oppressed minority that they have to get over it and accept the negative jabs and that they are actually the spoiled ones.

They feel like it perpetuates a negative and untruthful stereotype about them.

[Purple]

Thats the issue though. You have the priviledged majority people in power telling the disenfranchised and oppressed minority that they have to get over it and accept the negative jabs and that they are actually the spoiled ones.

They feel like it perpetuates a negative and untruthful stereotype about them.

But if the people doing it are clearly joking than it's hardly perpetuating a stereotype. After all, a stereotype is something someone actually believes in. Not something you say as a joke. Joking about it is no more harmful than say making jokes about how computer nerds can't get dates. I am a computer nerd. I don't have a date. And I ain't insulted.

[General Zod]

Thats the issue though. You have the priviledged majority people in power telling the disenfranchised and oppressed minority that they have to get over it and accept the negative jabs and that they are actually the spoiled ones.

They feel like it perpetuates a negative and untruthful stereotype about them.

But if the people doing it are clearly joking than it's hardly perpetuating a stereotype. After all, a stereotype is something someone actually believes in. Not something you say as a joke. Joking about it is no more harmful than say making jokes about how computer nerds can't get dates. I am a computer nerd. I don't have a date. And I ain't insulted.

The fact that you're incapable of empathizing with the people being made fun of doesn't make their claims invalid.

[Purple]

The fact that you're incapable of empathizing with the people being made fun of doesn't make their claims invalid.

Well if it gets down to it this is a case of everyone against everyone else working on the basis of "my feelings" vs "their feelings". So no ones claims are valid.

[Iroscato]

Thats the issue though. You have the priviledged majority people in power telling the disenfranchised and oppressed minority that they have to get over it and accept the negative jabs and that they are actually the spoiled ones.

They feel like it perpetuates a negative and untruthful stereotype about them.

But if the people doing it are clearly joking than it's hardly perpetuating a stereotype. After all, a stereotype is something someone actually believes in. Not something you say as a joke. Joking about it is no more harmful than say making jokes about how computer nerds can't get dates. I am a computer nerd. I don't have a date. And I ain't insulted.

Please tell me you are not that ignorant. You cannot compare being a 'computer nerd' to an entire race of people that are constantly marginilised and put down in society. Whose entire culture was shattered just a few generations ago by an invading force.
This guy that dressed up to avoid being drafted. I'll admit I know almost nothing about him, but he looked like a racist piece of shit, and even if he was dressing up as a native 'as a joke' there was still a spiteful sentiment behind it.
Wake up.

[General Zod]

The fact that you're incapable of empathizing with the people being made fun of doesn't make their claims invalid.

Well if it gets down to it this is a case of everyone against everyone else working on the basis of "my feelings" vs "their feelings". So no ones claims are valid.

I'm curious, would you object to a German soccer team calling themselves the Jew Scalpers?

I can't claim to say how accurate the article is, but according to some stories I've heard the origin of the word came about because a few English soldiers calling the scalps of natives that they wanted butchered "redskins".

[Purple]

I'm curious, would you object to a German soccer team calling themselves the Jew Scalpers?

That's a bit more violent than I'd like things to be. But I would not actually object to them doing so. I would hold a personal opinion that they are idiots of course. But would not try and make them relinquish it as that would be an act of forcing my opinions on others for no reason beyond them having hurt my tastes.

I can't claim to say how accurate the article is, but according to some stories I've heard the origin of the word came about because a few English soldiers calling the scalps of natives that they wanted butchered "redskins".

If that is the case I stand corrected. Forget racial slurs. No one should be using a word of that nasty a origin story.

Please tell me you are not that ignorant. You cannot compare being a 'computer nerd' to an entire race of people that are constantly marginilised and put down in society. Whose entire culture was shattered just a few generations ago by an invading force.

That's not the point. You ain't seeing the point.

This guy that dressed up to avoid being drafted. I'll admit I know almost nothing about him, but he looked like a racist piece of shit, and even if he was dressing up as a native 'as a joke' there was still a spiteful sentiment behind it.
Wake up.

I am not defending him. I already admitted that in this case it is wrong and that in this particular case the naysayers are right. Screw him and his legacy. We settled that several posts ago.

But in general terms, I just don't feel that anything, even racial slurs should be prohibited ground for comedy as long as there is no spite in it.

[Elheru Aran]

Just because there's no spite doesn't mean that it doesn't do harm. Using negative terms in a supposedly positive way promotes those terms as positive, regardless of whether they actually are or not. It ignores the history of those terms and the connotations that they have to specific people. That is where the harm is and that's why it's not acceptable to use racist, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory slurs in a comic fashion.