Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

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Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Ahriman238 »

Sometimes I have trouble believing this stuff. Linky.
NBC news wrote:PHOENIX -- A teacher at an Arizona prison was alone in a room full of sex offenders before being stabbed and sexually assaulted by a convicted rapist, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

The attack occurred Jan. 30 at the Eyman prison's Meadows Unit, which houses about 1,300 rapists, child molesters and other sex offenders. The teacher was administering a high school equivalency test to about a half-dozen inmates in a classroom with no guard nearby and only a radio to summon help. The Department of Corrections issued only a bare-bones press release after the attack, but the AP pieced together what happened based on interviews and investigatory reports obtained under the Arizona Public Records Act.


After the last of the other inmates left, Jacob Harvey asked the teacher if she could open the bathroom and then attacked her, records show. Harvey is accused of stabbing her in the head with a pen, forcing her to the ground and raping her.

The teacher told investigators that she screamed for help, but none came.

Harvey was in the first year of a 30-year sentence for raping a Glendale woman in November 2011. Just 17 at the time, he had knocked on the woman's door in the middle of the day, asked for a drink of water, then forced his way inside, where he repeatedly raped and beat her while her 2-year-old child was in the apartment. He fled naked when the woman's roommate arrived home.


He was arrested after DNA evidence connected him to the crime, and he pleaded guilty.


Harvey was initially classified as a "Class 4" security risk, one notch lower than the highest level. Six months later, despite violating prison rules at least once, he was reclassified at a lower level.

Department of Corrections spokesman Doug Nick said classrooms at prisons across the state are having cameras installed. But he said no administrative investigation was launched because there was no need, and no one was disciplined. He said all prisons are dangerous places and staff are trained accordingly.

"This is an assault that reflects the fact that inmates in our system often act out violently, and it is the inmate suspect who is responsible for this despicable act," he said.

The woman, who was not critically injured, has filed a worker's compensation claim against the state and did not want to comment on case. The AP does not usually identify sexual assault victims.

Internal emails obtained by the AP show that prisons Director Charles Ryan ordered all non-corrections officer staff at prisons statewide to be issued pepper spray and trained in its use just days after the attack.

Harvey was charged last month with sexual assault, kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon. A public defender was appointed, and he pleaded not guilty at his arraignment. The public defender assigned to his case, Paula Cook, declined to comment.

Harvey was convicted in a prison administrative hearing of sexually assaulting the staff member. Three weeks after the rape, he assaulted another prison employee, although records don't show any details. His security classification was raised two levels, to the highest, nearly three months after the teacher was assaulted.
Alright, on the one hand the prisoner is absolutely responsible for his actions, though apparently nothing was done until three months and another attack later. On the other, is it policy for Alabama Corrections to leave an unarmed women alone in a room with half-a-dozen convicted rapists? What part of that sentence sounds like a good idea? I'm not sure that distributing mace is going to measurably help either.

And to think the dumb scum did this to a teacher, as in, one of the few people trying to make their lives better, the day of his GED. What possible benefit is there to throwing away your GED for this?
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by salm »

Sounds like this guy might be better kept in an institution for the mentally ill than in a prison.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Broomstick »

I gather from the information in the story that the rapist is 20 years old. That means his brain's executive function is probably not fully developed (that doesn't happen until around 25) which means his ability to correlate future consequences for acting on present impulses likely isn't fully on line.

In addition, he's serving a 30 year sentence. WTF would he be using his GED for in the next decade or two?

Which leaves the question of why he'd be taking classes/studying for it. Well, boredom, possibly more favorable rating from the prison, or, given he's a rapist, access to a woman.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Mr. Coffee »

Ahriman238 wrote:Alright, on the one hand the prisoner is absolutely responsible for his actions, though apparently nothing was done until three months and another attack later. On the other, is it policy for Alabama Corrections to leave an unarmed women alone in a room with half-a-dozen convicted rapists? What part of that sentence sounds like a good idea? I'm not sure that distributing mace is going to measurably help either.
It's a fucking prison. Like every other prison in this country it's probably overcrowded, understaffed, and their simply isn't money in the budget to handhold every single employee in the place who isn't a guard. Also, just googling "US Prison Attack" I can find several pages worth of articles where this sort of shit happens all over the US and not just Alabama (P.S. go fuck yourself with a rake).
Ahriman238 wrote:And to think the dumb scum did this to a teacher, as in, one of the few people trying to make their lives better, the day of his GED. What possible benefit is there to throwing away your GED for this?
Did you even read the goddamn article? We're talking about a guy who as 17 year old thought it would be a good idea to knock on the door, ask for a drink of water, and then rape the shit out of a woman in front of her two year old, and the only reason he stopped was because the woman's roommate came home. I seriously doubt this kid had any thought in his skull beyond "I wanna fuck". If he actually gave a shit about consequences he wouldn't be in prison for rape in the first place.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Simon_Jester »

Yeah.

It's not even that hard to have something not-right in the head to the extent that you stop thinking "I should try to get this academic opportunity nailed down!" and start thinking of the whole process as an opportunity to show off what a posturing dickhead you are, or how much of a lunatic you can be.

Within the last week I've heard of at least two people who deliberately blew off opportunities, went out of their way to blow them off. Opportunities to help make sure they graduate from high school. And they did this for no reason that makes a damn bit of sense.

However, while I suspect both of them are mentally ill, neither of them are violent, so no one got hurt.

...

I'm somewhat curious to know how the other five inmates reacted.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by His Divine Shadow »

salm wrote:Sounds like this guy might be better kept in an institution for the mentally ill than in a prison.
In Alabama they might be one and the same.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Korto »

Ahriman238 wrote:Sometimes I have trouble believing this stuff.

And to think the dumb scum did this to a teacher, as in, one of the few people trying to make their lives better, the day of his GED. What possible benefit is there to throwing away your GED for this?
Yeah?
NBC news wrote:Harvey was in the first year of a 30-year sentence...
I'm with Broomstick. Why should he give a fuck about his GED? Why not rape her if he gets a chance? It's not like he's going anywhere for the next few decades.
OK, now he's probably not going anywhere, at all, ever, but if he was much good at long-term thinking, he probably wouldn't have got himself locked up in the first place.


So Salm, I don't think he's mentally ill. It's a reasonable course of action, given his current circumstance. Meaning it was PREDICTABLE. She should have been better protected, understaffed or no.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by JLTucker »

It happened in Arizona, people.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

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In my defence, I was drunk.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by salm »

Korto wrote: So Salm, I don't think he's mentally ill. It's a reasonable course of action, given his current circumstance. Meaning it was PREDICTABLE. She should have been better protected, understaffed or no.
Hmm... It doesn´t seem reasonable (even if viewing it from a purely selfish angle) if you can either do stuff to make a judge happy and perhaps get to serve less years and committing another crime adding even more years.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Channel72 »

salm wrote:
Korto wrote: So Salm, I don't think he's mentally ill. It's a reasonable course of action, given his current circumstance. Meaning it was PREDICTABLE. She should have been better protected, understaffed or no.
Hmm... It doesn´t seem reasonable (even if viewing it from a purely selfish angle) if you can either do stuff to make a judge happy and perhaps get to serve less years and committing another crime adding even more years.
Of course it's not reasonable... if we define "reasonable" as in acting in one's own long-term self-interest.

This guy just doesn't give a shit about his long-term self interest. He only cares about his short-term self interest, and in the short term he was simply interested in raping this poor woman.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Simon_Jester »

The problem is that "short term interest" covers a lot of territory. Different people have different interests at different times; the fact that you can count on this nut to act according to his short term interest makes him harder to predict, not easier.

So technically I disagree with Korto on that point, but I think his conclusion is right.

It's hard to predict how people with no self-restraint at all are going to act. The normal rules that define 'normal behavior' in civilized society will have zero impact on what they do. Since they don't follow normal rules, they don't act like normal people. So basic assumptions like "I can leave them alone in the same room with a person of the opposite sex without it turning into a rape attempt inside of ten minutes" are simply not true.

Now, exactly how the predicted act of insanity will play out is hard to say. Leave someone in a room with a violent convict, and the convict might commit rape. Or they might just start shouting and throwing things. Or they might get into a fistfight with another convict over some obscure point of machismo.

But as a practical matter, it's predictable that something is going to go very wrong, because these people wouldn't have committed violent crimes unless there were something very wrong in the first place.

Which circles back to the conclusion: no, you do not send a woman alone (I don't care if she's armed or not) into a room with half a dozen convicted rapists/murderers/whatever. Not without an armed guard. Not in a place where none of the inmates so much as see a woman other than this teacher and a few others like her.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by General Zod »

Maybe the prison system could start investing in rooms with a wall of bullet proof glass between the test administrator and the convicts for just this sort of thing? It would probably be a lot more effective than having a guard who could be overpowered.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Simon_Jester »

For general purposes having a room or two where people can speak with inmates on the opposite side of a wall sounds like a good idea.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

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Simon_Jester wrote:I'm somewhat curious to know how the other five inmates reacted.
According to the article, they had all left the room before he asked her to open the bathroom.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

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General Zod wrote:Maybe the prison system could start investing in rooms with a wall of bullet proof glass between the test administrator and the convicts for just this sort of thing? It would probably be a lot more effective than having a guard who could be overpowered.
Oh we already have that in some prisons in the US. 'Classrooms' which consist of a series of one person cells, each with a small open slot connected to a small room which holds the teacher, whom stands well back at all times but still has some kind of white board. So papers can be passed back and forth but you cant get more then part of an arm through the slot, so the maximum possible attack is maybe one stab with a pencil if the teacher leans in too far, mostly they just stand back. Mainly though those are used for juvenile prisons as in that case school is mandatory until age 18 no matter how violent the kid might be.

Investing in prisons though is kind of already failing at existing, baring complete replacement of some of the painfully old and simply obsolete prisons the US operates. If the US didn't imprison so many people for so long already our existing system would be far better able to handle stuff like this. A room with a guard might not be as secure as a series of cells, but its a far more health environment far more likely in my opinion to produce a useful increase in inmate education, and thus hopefully a little bit better behavior behind bars, and after release. That helps everyone. One person cages are just dehumanizing, at best. They may be the only way to deal with the severest cases, but most prisoners are not uncontrollable animals.

Of course since US prisons have been forced to replace the disbanded mental hospital system, which had its own horrendous problems but was probably excessively pruned back to almost nothing, and funding for everything is always very tight I expect stuff like this will just keep happening. Along with all the inmate on inmate rape and murder and violence and other utter insanity magnified by the system.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by AniThyng »

Broomstick wrote:I gather from the information in the story that the rapist is 20 years old. That means his brain's executive function is probably not fully developed (that doesn't happen until around 25) which means his ability to correlate future consequences for acting on present impulses likely isn't fully on line.
How much deviation from the norm are we talking here, since clearly it would be absurd to make the age of majority 25 for the population at large, and your phrasing seems to imply that at 20 his ability to think long term is underdeveloped enough to account for what he did.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

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Not underdeveloped enough to account for ALL of it, but it is likely a factor. While most people do have sufficient foresight at 18 or 20 to assume many of the roles of adulthood judgement and foresight continue to improve into the 20's in virtually everyone. That's why when you hit 30 you look back at yourself at 20 and think "damn, I did some stupid shit back then!"

It's certainly possible he has even less of that sort of mental function than the average person his age. It's not uncommon for impulsive criminals of that sort to have very poor skills when it comes to considering the consequences of their actions, and poor planning skills.

Fact is, choosing to rape the teacher where and when he did made it a certainty he'd be caught. He put the immediate gratification he got from the act ahead of future consequences.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

It's a fucking prison. Like every other prison in this country it's probably overcrowded, understaffed, and their simply isn't money in the budget to handhold every single employee in the place who isn't a guard. Also, just googling "US Prison Attack" I can find several pages worth of articles where this sort of shit happens all over the US and not just Alabama (P.S. go fuck yourself with a rake).
Coffee, sweety, Alabama is a shithole. You know it, I know it. Additionally, this was in Arizona. Which, because it was my home state for 12 years, I can tell you is also a shithole. Prisons in both states are absolute shit.

There is a difference between "handholding" every employee, and "failing to take reasonable precautions with respect to the health and safety of employees". Under the Reasonable Person Standard, failing to take reasonable precautions with respect to the health and safety of others that results in injury can result in civil or even criminal liability, depending on whether or not specific duties of care are violated, and the extent of the injury in question. It does not matter one bit if taking those precautions was not in the budget. The state is liable, in this case probably in civil court. Why? Because no reasonable person thinks that leaving an unarmed woman alone in a room with a bunch of convicted rapists is a good idea, and doing so is just a ticking time bomb wherein one waits for a rape to happen.

If the state cuts the budget so close to the bone that they cannot afford to protect employees in dangerous positions, then the state deserves to be punished by the courts in the form of punitive damages and enjoined from failing to meet minimum operational requirements.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Broomstick »

As a comparison, back in the 1990's when I was working at a clinic with a contract with the Federal Bureau of Prisons, where we saw people who were most certainly convicted felons, some in half-way house status and some not yet officially released, there were strict protocols regarding rapists and who could interact with them, and even male employees were given "panic buttons" or provided protection when interacting with these people.

As an example, we had one serial rapist who definitely favored a particular type of woman. Therefore, no women of that ethnicity were to interact with him for any reason, and for all other women they could only interact in public spaces with other people, never alone in a room even with an open door.

One particularly dangerous individual was issued Federal Marshals as guards, arrived in chains, and was NEVER permitted to be alone with anyone, male or female, ever. Frankly, he was wholly inappropriate for our treatment center and was only there briefly, thank god, because he scared the living fuck out of everyone. By which I mean a waiting room full of heroin addicts waiting for their methadone got up and left when he arrived. Yeah, scary enough to spook junkies away from "free" drugs and risk withdrawal. I sincerely hope that guy is still behind bars and will be until it's time to put him in the ground.

There are some VERY dangerous people out there. MOST of them can also be polite, congenial, and personable when they want to be that way. They don't always look dangerous, and they don't always give off some sort of signal before going apeshit on you. The guy in the OP apparently sweet-talked his way into a woman's home for the rape that landed him in jail, it's entirely possible he sweet-talked this teacher until she let her guard down sufficiently for him to rape her as well.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Cosmic Average »

Well, this is the dude that did it.

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Definitely doesn't look sane to me, but on the other hand, he used the same MO to rape both women...
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Channel72 »

What exactly doesn't look sane about him? He has no facial scars, tattoos, etc. He looks like an average guy to me. It looks like he might have a bit of a lazy eye in his right eye, maybe - but that's not particularly threatening.

He's obviously just an ordinary looking guy, which is probably how he was able to rape two women in the first place.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

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Channel72 wrote:What exactly doesn't look sane about him? He has no facial scars, tattoos, etc. He looks like an average guy to me. It looks like he might have a bit of a lazy eye in his right eye, maybe - but that's not particularly threatening.

He's obviously just an ordinary looking guy, which is probably how he was able to rape two women in the first place.
Well I don't know about you but I can see what you can't. It's not anything particular so much as the fact that the whole package just raises all sorts of alarm bells for me. He just looks like someone who is dangerous.
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by General Zod »

Purple wrote:
Channel72 wrote:What exactly doesn't look sane about him? He has no facial scars, tattoos, etc. He looks like an average guy to me. It looks like he might have a bit of a lazy eye in his right eye, maybe - but that's not particularly threatening.

He's obviously just an ordinary looking guy, which is probably how he was able to rape two women in the first place.
Well I don't know about you but I can see what you can't. It's not anything particular so much as the fact that the whole package just raises all sorts of alarm bells for me. He just looks like someone who is dangerous.
It's easy to say that after the fact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
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Re: Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

Post by Purple »

General Zod wrote:
Purple wrote:
Channel72 wrote:What exactly doesn't look sane about him? He has no facial scars, tattoos, etc. He looks like an average guy to me. It looks like he might have a bit of a lazy eye in his right eye, maybe - but that's not particularly threatening.

He's obviously just an ordinary looking guy, which is probably how he was able to rape two women in the first place.
Well I don't know about you but I can see what you can't. It's not anything particular so much as the fact that the whole package just raises all sorts of alarm bells for me. He just looks like someone who is dangerous.
It's easy to say that after the fact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
That could be it. But I really don't think that's the case here. The guy just looks like a generic poor bum with a lazy eye, unkempt facial hair and filthy clothes. All signs of a person to stay away from. Now if he was say to put on a clean shirt I would be far less put off.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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