Prison Teacher Stabbed, Raped

[Eternal_Freedom]

That could be it. But I really don't think that's the case here. The guy just looks like a generic poor bum with a lazy eye, unkempt facial hair and filthy clothes. All signs of a person to stay away from. Now if he was say to put on a clean shirt I would be far less put off.

Emphasis mine. Why does a person having a lazy eye make you want to stay away from someone?

[General Zod]

That could be it. But I really don't think that's the case here. The guy just looks like a generic poor bum with a lazy eye, unkempt facial hair and filthy clothes. All signs of a person to stay away from. Now if he was say to put on a clean shirt I would be far less put off.

This really says a lot more about you than it does the rapist.

[Purple]

This really says a lot more about you than it does the rapist.

I won't deny that. But as I always say. Being paranoid has newer failed me so far.

[Napoleon the Clown]

When one of the things that marks someone as "seedy" is beyond their control being judgmental about it doesn't make you any less of an asshole just because it has "never failed you."

[General Zod]

This really says a lot more about you than it does the rapist.

I won't deny that. But as I always say. Being paranoid has newer failed me so far.

You're too hung up on appearances. They matter for some things, but not whether someone is a "threat". Did you know that muggers in New York like dressing up in crisp and well pressed suits when they swipe phones on the subway to lure people into a false sense of security?

[Purple]

This really says a lot more about you than it does the rapist.

I won't deny that. But as I always say. Being paranoid has newer failed me so far.

You're too hung up on appearances. They matter for some things, but not whether someone is a "threat". Did you know that muggers in New York like dressing up in crisp and well pressed suits when they swipe phones on the subway to lure people into a false sense of security?

I am talking from personal experience and where I am from. Obviously different places are going to have very different things that identify a dangerous person.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Purple, can I get an answer to my question please? As someone who has a lazy eye (amongst other eye conditions) I really want to know what it is that makes you want to stay away from it.

[General Zod]

I am talking from personal experience and where I am from. Obviously different places are going to have very different things that identify a dangerous person.

Your personal experience must be very limited, but I'm sure the muggers in New York would love you.

Hint: Behavior should count for more than appearance when gauging threats. This is the sort of grade school logic the TSA uses to screen terrorists and you can tell how effective that is.

[Channel72]

Purple, does this guy also give you a bad feeling?



He doesn't even have a stained shirt, and he's definitely clean shaven. Doesn't look particularly dangerous to me...

Pretty charming if you ask me. I'm sure he has great success with women...

[Korto]

I am talking from personal experience and where I am from close-minded bigotry. Obviously different places are going to have very different things that identify a dangerous person it's impossible to reliably judge a person from looks alone.

Fixed that for you.

I could judge where you live from what you wrote - upper-class, cossetted perhaps - but that would make me guilty of the same superficial judgements you seem to revel in.
I will note that while a ragged, disheveled appearance could indicate someone split apart from society, and therefore perhaps resentful and less likely to feel compelled to obey the rules of society, it could also just indicate someone having a bad day. Or who doesn't feel surface appearances to be very important. Someone who's speech is 'rough' could indicate someone violent and aggressive, it could also indicate someone who grew up somewhere where they speak differently.
However, someone who is planning to get you, who is planning to carry out illegal acts against you, is quite capable of dressing and deporting himself in a fashion to allay any suspicions you may have.

Edit - Ooops, meant to say something about this:

I'm somewhat curious to know how the other five inmates reacted.

According to the article, they had all left the room before he asked her to open the bathroom.

Very good chance the others would have stopped it. There would be someone there who only had a couple of years to go and didn't feel like adding to it, or had a parole hearing coming up and thought "Stopped a rape" would sound really good, or just the plain fact that even in prison, many people aren't arseholes. It's happened before, other prisoners rescuing someone.

[Simon_Jester]

This really says a lot more about you than it does the rapist.

I won't deny that. But as I always say. Being paranoid has newer failed me so far.

If it results in you being drastically biased in favor of people who look 'clean' or whatever, it may fail you in the future.

Realistically, you are in far more danger of being screwed over by a man in a suit with a nice smile and a firm handshake than you are in danger of being screwed over by an unhygienic tramp.

[salm]

I am talking from personal experience and where I am from. Obviously different places are going to have very different things that identify a dangerous person.

Your personal experience must be very limited, but I'm sure the muggers in New York would love you.

Don´t worry, he will never set a foot into NY because he´s scared. That´s where his paranoia fails him. He doesn´t do certain things because of baseless fear and doesn´t even notice.

[Edi]

One of the ways confirmation bias manifests is that humans tend to consider those people trustworthy who are most similar to them. All such things as clean appearance, what kind of clothes you wear, grooming etc affect it. So if the guy in the photo looks or feels very different from Purple, it automatically activates that mental mechanism and if he has actively honed his paranoia, it will just reinforce that.

It is not possible to judge people accurately by their physical appearance alone, not without seeing them in person, because a still photo does not convey body language and other behaviors sufficiently.

If I were to post two photos of me, one from this morning and one right now, based on the first one Purple would probably classify me as a dangerous lunatic (a few days growth of beard, which is unruly and bristly as fuck, two weeks growth of hair, which is sparse enough to just look disheveled). Based on the second one (both beard and head shaven, which makes me look a lot cleaner and a few years younger as well), he'd probably be more likely to trust me.

My dad is also an excellent case study in this sort of thing, because if he spends two or three weeks out at the summer house and most of that time out in the woods looking for different sorts of birds, he looks like a bandit or a vagabond with the faded and torn fatigues and everything else that goes with that. Once he cleans up and puts a suit on, he won't be out of place in the company of government ministers at official state functions if necessary.

There is going to be an obvious trust gap between the two appearances for people who are used to different things.

[Purple]

Purple, can I get an answer to my question please? As someone who has a lazy eye (amongst other eye conditions) I really want to know what it is that makes you want to stay away from it.

Nothing about it makes me want to stay away from the person. It is however a trait that makes people notice you. Nothing more. And when attention is already drawn to you and you have other traits that do make me want to stay away than I am more likely to stay away from you than if you had those traits and my attention not been drawn to you.

I could judge where you live from what you wrote - upper-class, cossetted perhaps - but that would make me guilty of the same superficial judgements you seem to revel in.

Actually no. I don't have much money or wealth or stuff. Definitively not upper class by any margin. I mean I ain't poor. I have enough to eat every day, a roof over my head and can go to university. But I am not one of the kids that wear designer clothes or get a car for a birthday present. Hell even my PC is not exactly modern.

I will note that while a ragged, disheveled appearance could indicate someone split apart from society, and therefore perhaps resentful and less likely to feel compelled to obey the rules of society, it could also just indicate someone having a bad day.

THIS. This is the basis for everything I say. Nothing beyond that. I simply have a rule of thumb that if someone stands out too much than that someone is a person to be careful around. Because he might be resentful or having a bad day. Both of which make him dangerous. Or he might be rich and spoiled which again is dangerous. How do you know the difference between someone who is legitimately filthy because he is poor and someone who is drunk and threw up on him self? You don't. And you don't get close enough to smell him and check.

Or who doesn't feel surface appearances to be very important.

As someone who does not consider appearances to be very important I can tell you that I still keep my self clean. My hair is out of whack and I have newer shaven in my life. But god dam it I don't wear an orange shirt with stains the size of my face on it.

However, someone who is planning to get you, who is planning to carry out illegal acts against you, is quite capable of dressing and deporting himself in a fashion to allay any suspicions you may have.

Emphasis on planing. It's not the ones that plan to get me that I ever have to worry about. Simply because I don't have enough wealth, property or standing that anyone but maybe a scorned ex would want to do me harm. I only really have to worry about impulse criminals who do not know that I have not carried any meaningful amount of cash with me except when explicitly going out to shop for stuff for three years strait now because as a student I don't have the time or money to go wasting it and party.

[Purple]

Missed edit window. If someone could edit this into my last post please do:

Purple, does this guy also give you a bad feeling?

Yes. But for different reasons. He tips the opposite end of my creepy spectrum. He looks like he would want to try to sell something to me. Or worse, try and get me to join a religious sect. It's that smile of his and the way his eyes look up like a puppy. The way it looks. Dodge if possible.

By the way. Who is the guy?


EDIT: Also, people. Seriously just realize that given enough time to look at someone I can find a reason to be paranoid around anyone. It's a character trait. I am the kind of person who only trusts people I know personally for a very long time. If we are not on a first name basis, I don't trust you.

[Mr. Coffee]

By the way. Who is the guy?

Ted Bundy was a serial killer in the US. Known to be a charming fucker, the guy would lure women off, kidnap them, rape them, murder them, rape them some more, and then dump the bodies out in the middle of no where. Florida, in one of their rarer lucid moments, executed the fucker. Go Gators.

[Mr. Coffee]

Coffee, sweety, Alabama is a shithole. You know it, I know it. Additionally, this was in Arizona. Which, because it was my home state for 12 years, I can tell you is also a shithole. Prisons in both states are absolute shit.

Alabama, Arizona, doesn't really matter. As far as I can tell from google, every fucking state in the Union is like this when it comes to their prisons, and the federally run institutions are about the same in most cases. This is not an issue that happens in one state or two or even a handful, this kind of shit happens fucking everywhere, so singling out one state means either A) the person saying different has no goddamn idea what they're on about or B) is intentionally ignoring that in order to make a lame joke.

So either the OP is a dumbass or he's unfunny. Either would warrant a smack upside the head where I come from. YMMV.

There is a difference between "handholding" every employee, and "failing to take reasonable precautions with respect to the health and safety of employees". Under the Reasonable Person Standard, failing to take reasonable precautions with respect to the health and safety of others that results in injury can result in civil or even criminal liability, depending on whether or not specific duties of care are violated, and the extent of the injury in question. It does not matter one bit if taking those precautions was not in the budget. The state is liable, in this case probably in civil court. Why? Because no reasonable person thinks that leaving an unarmed woman alone in a room with a bunch of convicted rapists is a good idea, and doing so is just a ticking time bomb wherein one waits for a rape to happen.

Do you even know anything about prison at all, bro? Barring a massive budget increase to hire shitloads of guards there simply isn't any way for their to be guards everywhere you need them. Even better, our prisons can be so so dangerous even having the guards around sometimes isn't a deterrent. Other than locking the teacher in her own little glass cage, there really isn't anything that could have a seriously prevented this other than not hiring female employees at that facility.

If the state cuts the budget so close to the bone that they cannot afford to protect employees in dangerous positions, then the state deserves to be punished by the courts in the form of punitive damages and enjoined from failing to meet minimum operational requirements.

Thus creating more financial burden for the state, thus reducing the budget even more, thus shit like this keeps happening...

[Broomstick]

But god dam it I don't wear an orange shirt with stains the size of my face on it.

Prisoners don't get a choice in what they wear. Orange is a common color for them because it's so highly visible and serves as a warning saying CONVICT. That's why, in the US when someone being held in prison is taken to trial they are often given a set of street clothes or even a suit to change into before going into the court room to keep the jury from perceiving them as someone already convicted/guilty.

[Purple]

By the way. Who is the guy?

Ted Bundy was a serial killer in the US. Known to be a charming fucker, the guy would lure women off, kidnap them, rape them, murder them, rape them some more, and then dump the bodies out in the middle of no where. Florida, in one of their rarer lucid moments, executed the fucker. Go Gators.

That's TB? He looks like a politician or used car salesman.

But god dam it I don't wear an orange shirt with stains the size of my face on it.

Prisoners don't get a choice in what they wear. Orange is a common color for them because it's so highly visible and serves as a warning saying CONVICT. That's why, in the US when someone being held in prison is taken to trial they are often given a set of street clothes or even a suit to change into before going into the court room to keep the jury from perceiving them as someone already convicted/guilty.

I newer said that they do have a choice, or that in this case it is this mans own fault that he trips my alarms. I just explained how and why he does it. Come to think of it, now that you explained things the bright orange might probably have contributed more than I know. It's one of the general issue warning colors along with red. And whilst I am not used to seeing convicts I am used to seeing traffic cones. So yea, that actually might be it more than anything.

[Channel72]

That's TB? He looks like a politician or used car salesman.

Yeah, exactly. Most murderers/rapists/psychopaths don't actually look like Charles Manson, unfortunately.

Even this picture of Ted Bundy:



... which you might claim makes him look a tad crazy (what with that intense stare and all...), probably only appears so to you because a significant percentage of your perception is biased by hindsight.

His stare isn't really much more intense or creepy than that iconic picture of Steve Jobs:



And... as far as we know, the only raping and murdering Steve Jobs did occurred in China (ba-doom-ching(?))

[Alyrium Denryle]

Do you even know anything about prison at all, bro? Barring a massive budget increase to hire shitloads of guards there simply isn't any way for their to be guards everywhere you need them. Even better, our prisons can be so so dangerous even having the guards around sometimes isn't a deterrent. Other than locking the teacher in her own little glass cage, there really isn't anything that could have a seriously prevented this other than not hiring female employees at that facility.

Reasonable does not mean exhaustive. You cannot have guards everywhere, and most of the security in prisons deals with controlling movement of prisoners through automated systems. That way if there is a problem (say, a prisoner gets violent with Guard 1) an area can be isolated, and force concentrated embodied in guards 2 through N.

This is a prison unit specifically designed to house violent sex offenders. They put an unarmed women, alone and apparently unsupervised, in a room with multiple rapists. They failed to provide physical access controls (read: classroom cubby cells), they failed to even have a security dude watching cameras in the fucking hallway watching over the classroom area. No guards in earshot. They might as well put a sign on her back that said "rape me". This is a fucking teacher. She is not a guard, she is not trained in hand to hand combat. She is a god damn teacher proctoring a test, and might as well be a visitor.

So yeah. The state fucking failed in its obligations. Not having the money is no excuse, not in the eyes of the law. You dont get to cut corners due to a budget shortfall. Ever. You find the money, or you dont operate. Would you be making this argument if a fire department did not have the money to keep their breathing apparati in good repair? I doubt it.

Thus creating more financial burden for the state, thus reducing the budget even more, thus shit like this keeps happening...

That is not how it works. A court order would mean the state has no choice but to adequately fund its prison system by a certain date, or be fined in contempt. Per Day. That would likely mean raising taxes, which AZ (in this case) really needs to do anyway.

[Purple]

His stare isn't really much more intense or creepy than that iconic picture of Steve Jobs:

I don't think you picked a good example there. I always found jobs to be disturbing to look at. He always looked like a comic book villain to me more than anything. That or an old sea captain that just waits till you turn around to hook you in the back or something. I can keep writing this all day. He just looks evil.

[Broomstick]

I'd like to point out something that the pictures upthread of Bundy and Jobs both share: both of them have one side of their mouth quirked upward slightly, but without the "smile features" around the eyes that accompany a genuine smile. That is actually an expression of disgust or contempt on their features. It's subtle, though, and easy to miss although people might well have some sense of unease.

Bundy not only kept himself quite well groomed in appearance and made an effort to have a kind, friendly voice and demeanor, he would also do things like put a fake cast on an arm to make himself look even more harmless. Thus, when a woman went to help out that nice stranger with the broken arm... he would catch the victims with their guard down. Very evil man.

[General Zod]

Missed edit window. If someone could edit this into my last post please do:

Purple, does this guy also give you a bad feeling?

Yes. But for different reasons. He tips the opposite end of my creepy spectrum. He looks like he would want to try to sell something to me. Or worse, try and get me to join a religious sect. It's that smile of his and the way his eyes look up like a puppy. The way it looks. Dodge if possible.

By the way. Who is the guy?


EDIT: Also, people. Seriously just realize that given enough time to look at someone I can find a reason to be paranoid around anyone. It's a character trait. I am the kind of person who only trusts people I know personally for a very long time. If we are not on a first name basis, I don't trust you.

Nobody's saying you've got to trust strangers with your personal private information, but automatically treating someone as dangerous just because they happen to fall in line with some of your preconceived notions is silly.

My hackles don't go up unless someone I just met tries acting like they're my best friend; then I start wondering how they're trying to screw me over. But there's a line between "Way too friendly" and "casual friendly". It really helps to have more shades of grey in your life.

[Raw Shark]

[snip] My hackles don't go up unless someone I just met tries acting like they're my best friend; then I start wondering how they're trying to screw me over. But there's a line between "Way too friendly" and "casual friendly". It really helps to have more shades of grey in your life.

Yeah, that's my #1 red flag. Usually it means they're a salesman for some product or religion, but on the extreme ends of that spectrum you've also got your really boring people with no friends who desperately want some, and your homicidal necrophiliac face-eaters.