http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 52854.htmlFGM in Sweden: School where every single girl in one class underwent procedure exposed
The shocking scale of female genital mutilation (FGM) in a Swedish school, where every single girl in one class had been subjected to the procedure, has been revealed.
School health services in Norrköping, eastern Sweden, discovered 60 cases of FGM since March, according to the Norrköpings Tidningar newspaper.
In the class where all of the girls had FGM performed on them, 28 were subjected to infibulation - the most extreme kind where the clitoris and labia are complete cut away, and the genitals are sewn to leave a small vaginal opening.
Additional local services have since been provided to help the girls.
FGM is carried out for cultural, religious and social reasons within families and communities where it is believed to be a necessary preparation for adulthood and marriage.
Along with mental illnesses, the long-term physical consequences of FGM procedures can include chronic vaginal and pelvic infections, abnormal periods, persistent urine infections, possible kidney failure and infertility, according the NHS.
Performing FGM in Sweden has been an offence punishable by a prison sentence since 1982, but in 1999 the government extended the law to include procedures performed abroad.
Read more: As the 'cutting season' approaches, end the silence
"We're working to inform parents that they could face prison if they come back and their children have undergone female genital mutilation,” Petra Blom Andersson, student health coordinator in Norrköping, told the newspaper.
FGM is also a problem in the UK, where, it is estimated that over 20,000 girls under the age of 15 are at risk, and that 60,000 women have been operated on.
As is the case in Sweden, girls in the UK are most threatened during the summer months when they visit the countries from where their parents originate.
The World Health Organisation predicts that 125 million girls and women alive today have been subjected to FGM in the 29 Africa and Middle Eastern countries where it is most frequently performed.
Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
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Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
Well this happened here in Sweden recently, can't say I'm shocked at all
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Reason: changed title to be less confusing
Reason: changed title to be less confusing
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Re: Entire class underwent genital mutilation in Sweden
The title makes this sound like it was down IN Sweden, not just these girls being found there. It almost sounds like one day the whole class went on a field trip and came back with Barbie-doll crotches.
So, apparently, they're the daughters of immigrants and this seems to have been done on summer holidays?
So, apparently, they're the daughters of immigrants and this seems to have been done on summer holidays?
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Re: Entire class underwent genital mutilation in Sweden
Yeah... I had to read the story twice before I could the section where it said this DIDN'T actually happen in Sweden.
That being said, I really REALLY hope this leads to some closer monitoring of schools and students to hopefully prevent more of this...
That being said, I really REALLY hope this leads to some closer monitoring of schools and students to hopefully prevent more of this...
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Re: Entire class underwent genital mutilation in Sweden
It's not the school's problem, presumably, as this wasn't done in the school. The problem is with the parents' culture which dictates this as a proper.
Short of not permitting the parents to take their children out of the country I'm not sure how you stop this, and even then, it's not beyond possibility that this could be done in Sweden, albeit illegally. Well, you could remove all female children from the custody of their parents, but that's rather draconian as well and will likely have some nasty side effects, too - like maybe selective abortion, or taking the girls out of Sweden as infants and sending them to live with relatives in the old country where FGM will happen anyway.
Short of not permitting the parents to take their children out of the country I'm not sure how you stop this, and even then, it's not beyond possibility that this could be done in Sweden, albeit illegally. Well, you could remove all female children from the custody of their parents, but that's rather draconian as well and will likely have some nasty side effects, too - like maybe selective abortion, or taking the girls out of Sweden as infants and sending them to live with relatives in the old country where FGM will happen anyway.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
They can prevent the parents from taking the minors abroad if this sort of thing is suspected. With immigrants from certain cultures, it should be assumed. If they come here (Sweden, Finland etc.), they had better learn to live with the laws here. These aspects of their original culture can get fucked in the ass with rusty barbed wire and if they don't like it, they are welcome to go right the fuck back where they came from. If they follow the laws here and those aspects of their culture that don't pose problems on that score, they are welcome, but this shit needs to be stamped out HARD.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
It is a truly horrible dilemma, since there is no way to prevent this from happening without seriously injuring mirgant rights - something that is bound to be challenged in courts with the presumption of innocence. Therefore there will be only reactive action - punishment, which cannot undo what's done.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
If there is reasonable cause to suspect the parents are taking them out of the country for FGM (and there always is with these immigrants), preventing them from doing so is not trampling on their rights, but protecting those of the child. I'd support automatic loss of custody of non-mutilated girls for any family who is known to have had a single child mutilated like that.
If the law does not allow for these things, it should be changed. I take a very dim view of racism and bigotry, but there are certain cultural practices (like FGM) that are so indefensible that I'm liable to punch anyone defending them in the face and telling them to go fuck themselves.
If the law does not allow for these things, it should be changed. I take a very dim view of racism and bigotry, but there are certain cultural practices (like FGM) that are so indefensible that I'm liable to punch anyone defending them in the face and telling them to go fuck themselves.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
FGM, the suffering thereof or the risk of such suffering is an immediate reason to accept a claim of asylum in this country.
I'm pretty much on side with Edi on this one, it's an awful thing and protecting those children at risk is vital.
I'm pretty much on side with Edi on this one, it's an awful thing and protecting those children at risk is vital.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
You're offering good (if still reactive) solutions, Edi. Problem is of course that there have to be specific laws written just for the case.
And they shoulnd't be abused, because we're talking about judging intent here. If one has suffered already, it is a good reason to ban travelling with other children, but in other cases it would be up to the official to make a call on whether this person is just going back to Egypt to see relatives or going to do horrible things to her child. That's the problem - a few wrong calls would be quite likely inevitable.
Not to mention the obviously horrible, but completely predictable solution: a bunch of women invite a FGM "doctor" from their home country if they cannot travel with their children. This isn't too hard, especially if we're talking about whole diasporas.
It does make me feel awful, but it took India many decades to stamp out sati. This is an awful practice, but it has considerably less psychological impact. I doubt it will be easy to eradicate.
Criminal liability might be needed, but this would lead to yet more suffering again: Stockholm syndrome will make sure the surgery horror's forgotten, but the shock of broken families will stay. Crap.
And they shoulnd't be abused, because we're talking about judging intent here. If one has suffered already, it is a good reason to ban travelling with other children, but in other cases it would be up to the official to make a call on whether this person is just going back to Egypt to see relatives or going to do horrible things to her child. That's the problem - a few wrong calls would be quite likely inevitable.
Not to mention the obviously horrible, but completely predictable solution: a bunch of women invite a FGM "doctor" from their home country if they cannot travel with their children. This isn't too hard, especially if we're talking about whole diasporas.
It does make me feel awful, but it took India many decades to stamp out sati. This is an awful practice, but it has considerably less psychological impact. I doubt it will be easy to eradicate.
Criminal liability might be needed, but this would lead to yet more suffering again: Stockholm syndrome will make sure the surgery horror's forgotten, but the shock of broken families will stay. Crap.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
So... if you have a refugee family from, say Somalia that arrives with a mother who has been subjected to FGM and a 16 year old daughter (who might even be married with children of her own) who has also had FGM you will automatically remove custody of all other female children from the family upon their arrival In Finland? And all subsequent female children upon their birth?Edi wrote:If there is reasonable cause to suspect the parents are taking them out of the country for FGM (and there always is with these immigrants), preventing them from doing so is not trampling on their rights, but protecting those of the child. I'd support automatic loss of custody of non-mutilated girls for any family who is known to have had a single child mutilated like that.
I'm not defending the practice, far from it, but I actually have done a little research into it and these practices do not occur in a vacuum. There are places in the world where a woman who has NOT had FGM will automatically be assumed to be a whore and could be executed for the "crime" of having normal genitals. That's the context some of these families are coming from. So, you have people from a culture where no one has seen what a normal adult female crotch looks like, and where possessing one can get you killed. You're asking the family to let their daughters develop what looks like, to them, a monstrous and deformed crotch area AND making it impossible for those girls/women to ever safely go back and visit the old country or relatives there AND sharply limiting their marriage prospects among their own ethnic group where the males are all conditioned to view a mutilated crotch as normal and view an unmutilated one as monstrous. Now, I completely agree that's a horrific state of affairs and we should be an end to those circumstances if we can, but having a kneejerk reaction and depriving immigrants of half their children is likely to have some bad consequences.If the law does not allow for these things, it should be changed. I take a very dim view of racism and bigotry, but there are certain cultural practices (like FGM) that are so indefensible that I'm liable to punch anyone defending them in the face and telling them to go fuck themselves.
As noted, the parents will seek underground cutters in their new home country if they can't go back to the old one. Hell, in the old country you have grandmothers using broken bottles and razor blades to do this "surgery", so maybe you'll have to prevent granny from ever being along with the daughters in the kitchen. If you summarily take away all the girl children, though, you'll really piss off the parents because, you know, people get so goddamned cranky when you steal their kids - and that is how it will be perceived.
I suppose you could just ban those ethnicities from immigrating but then you'll guarantee those girls will be mutilated back in their home countries. While they're still at risk they are at less risk living in Europe.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
If they come here already in that state, it is hardly their fault. If they still perpetuate it after that (by e.g. traveling to Somalia or wherever and having their own children mutilated there), then I'd support automatic loss of custody.Broomstick wrote:So... if you have a refugee family from, say Somalia that arrives with a mother who has been subjected to FGM and a 16 year old daughter (who might even be married with children of her own) who has also had FGM you will automatically remove custody of all other female children from the family upon their arrival In Finland? And all subsequent female children upon their birth?Edi wrote:If there is reasonable cause to suspect the parents are taking them out of the country for FGM (and there always is with these immigrants), preventing them from doing so is not trampling on their rights, but protecting those of the child. I'd support automatic loss of custody of non-mutilated girls for any family who is known to have had a single child mutilated like that.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
How do you have good grounds to suspect someone is attempting to have their child go overseas for FGM? If they have done it before that's good enough for me. If they are known to advocate it, again sounds good.
But what if there is no history aside from them coming from parts of the world that tolerate it? How do you prevent it until its too late with the first female child? If you automatically single them out because they come from a certain part of the world, then you run the risk of discriminating against these families, who might be taking them overseas for a legitimate reason, eg visiting relatives.
But what if there is no history aside from them coming from parts of the world that tolerate it? How do you prevent it until its too late with the first female child? If you automatically single them out because they come from a certain part of the world, then you run the risk of discriminating against these families, who might be taking them overseas for a legitimate reason, eg visiting relatives.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
Under UK immigration law (specifically asylum), which isn't specifically this but is about as close as we're going to get on this, it is assumed that any female child that would be returned to a nation where FGM is practised are going to suffer it. Therefore it is a breach of human rights to refuse an asylum application or to attempt to deport to one of those nations. Spoilermr friendly guy wrote:How do you have good grounds to suspect someone is attempting to have their child go overseas for FGM? If they have done it before that's good enough for me. If they are known to advocate it, again sounds good.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
Exactly. Barnest gives an interesting case but I suspect that part of solution will have to be destructive punitive punishments. You come back with your child circumcised and you're fucked. The question is how this works, legally and practically, you're now responsible for both the incarcerated immigrants and their children. Of course, this creates another form of discrimination in that kids will have to be checked when they come back but as icky as it is it's the lesser of the two reactive evils here.mr friendly guy wrote:How do you have good grounds to suspect someone is attempting to have their child go overseas for FGM? If they have done it before that's good enough for me. If they are known to advocate it, again sounds good.
But what if there is no history aside from them coming from parts of the world that tolerate it? How do you prevent it until its too late with the first female child? If you automatically single them out because they come from a certain part of the world, then you run the risk of discriminating against these families, who might be taking them overseas for a legitimate reason, eg visiting relatives.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
It's not actually irreversible anymore. Several doctors who perform GRS (genital reassignment surgery) on transsexual women have procedures for successfully repositioning the base of the clitoris, which being inside the body is not incised and is actually much larger than commonly thought. This allows the reconstruction of a sensate clitoris capable of orgasm. The labia minora and majora are then reconstructed with grafts of relatively sensitive thigh tissue. Unfortunately the cost of the surgery is probably about circa 5,000 USD I'd think, and there are only two clinics in the world presently conducting it.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
The scarring will still probably interfere with childbirth, though, as scar tissue is not nearly as flexible and stretchable as normal vaginal tissue is. Particularly for victims of infibulation there are problems with actually birthing children.
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Re: Class of Swedish students had genital mutilation abroad
The problem with our system is that it works on the parent coming forward and saying "This is a problem and I don't want it to happen to my children."Scrib wrote: Exactly. Barnest gives an interesting case but I suspect that part of solution will have to be destructive punitive punishments.
If the parent doesn't mention anything and wants it to happen then... how much can you do without being super invasive.
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