Game of Thrones Season 4 discussion (book spoilers included)

[xerex]

I feel as if they should have changed things more though. If you cut Tysha out the entire reason that Tyrion finds the word "whore" cutting is gone. Tyrion himself calls Shae a whore the second to last time he saw her. He then kills her. The entire reason the word was so enraging to him was because Tysha wasn't a whore. He wouldn't kill his hated father almost casually because he uses that word. It's nitpicking, but imo, that is a case of picking something from the books that you needn't pick when you discarded what gave it meaning. If they had gotten rid of it something equally valid could have taken its place.

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How many men call thier exes whores and then get really angry if someone else uses that same description ? Quite a few I think.

[LaCroix]

To me it was quite obvious why he killed his father in the series adaption - they merged Tysha and Shae - in the series, Tyrion really loved Shae (as much as he loved Tysha) - and then she betrayed him, and then he found her in his father's bed. After killing her, his father only shrugged it off, because it doesn't matter, she's just a whore...

He took the women Tyrion loved, used her to sentence Tyrion to death, took her as a mistress, but he doesn't even care the least bit about her.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah, I had no problems understanding Tyrion's actions and motivations when I watched the episode, having not read the books. I think it made perfect sense. Honestly, the only people I have heard expressing befuddlement are people who have read the books (and as such were expecting the scene to play out differently).

[Patroklos]

Whats missing with the deletion of Tysha and "fucking Moonboy" for me beyond the follow on effects of those two action is that Tyrion and Jaime still have their relationship intact. In the books every sympathetic link between the prime Lanisters is severed. Tyrion finds that Jaime helped to rape and banish his wife and then hid this from him severing that one, and Tyrion exposes Cersi's betrayal of Jamie. In that one scene of secret telling all Lanister family allegiences are destroyed making all Tywin's plans for power and glory for nothing.

[LaCroix]

Jamie certainly isn't fond of Tyrion, anymore, after the thing with their father and the crossbow, and the Jamie-Cersei relation is already very strained in the show ("you came too late"). He's not really hating her , yet, but that's easlily rectified - show Cersei told their dad, and will probably tell Jamie about her infidelities in a fit of rage, for all we know. Add Lancel spilling his sins to Jamie, and he will start believing the gossip going round the castle. Voila, we're at roughly the same point, only with the difference that Tyrion still likes his brother, and isn't muttering about where whores go every five seconds...

[Irbis]

On the one hand, cutting the Tysha revelation is damn stupid. On the other hand I wouldn't miss 'where do whores go?' As Tyrion's catchphrase. The guy just becomes vile in Dance For Dragons. It was amazing how bad and boring that book made Tyrion and Jon, previously some of my favourite characters.

And that was not such a big deal for Jaime. He was already moving towards 'i will be honourable now' and splitting with Cersei well before than conversation. At least in the books.

Yes, I personally hated that scene in book. It was awkward, didn't work as presented, IMHO (something that would make them want to kill each other, and they just walk away without even a punch or threat exchange?). Jaime can learn the truth in dozens possible ways, and the whole whoregoing subplot wouldn't work at all on screen.

Whats missing with the deletion of Tysha and "fucking Moonboy" for me beyond the follow on effects of those two action is that Tyrion and Jaime still have their relationship intact. In the books every sympathetic link between the prime Lanisters is severed. Tyrion finds that Jaime helped to rape and banish his wife and then hid this from him severing that one, and Tyrion exposes Cersi's betrayal of Jamie. In that one scene of secret telling all Lanister family allegiences are destroyed making all Tywin's plans for power and glory for nothing.

Isn't it anyway? Twins hate Tyrion for killing Tywin, and will soon hate each other as Jaime learns about sleeping around. There is no sympathetic link left aside Tyrion not having issue with Jaime. The only difference is not going 'lolyeah here I tell you for no reason dangling plot thread from 5 books ago why you should hate me forever'.

[Patroklos]

There was a reason for Jamie to tell Tyrion, as this was probably the last time he expected to see him before his exile and he had been going through his whole soul searching thing and this was him taking this weight of his chest. Tyrion obviously was just striking back with his own secret to try and hurt Jaime for his betrayal. Hell, Jamie was the only person Tyrion could count on from his immediate family his whole life, and it appears Jaime despite his earlier betrayal really did care for his brother in later life and did so knowing what he had done to him years before. It was pretty devastating for all concerned.

And I never got the impression that Jamie hated Tyrion for killing Tywin. It was inconvenient, but at no time in Jamie's inner dialogue do I remember Jaime saying anything close to him hating Tyrion. Especially since it was him who told Tyrion about what his father did to him/Tysha. Cersei hated Tyrion long before her father's murder but should be thanking him for killing Tywin, as now she doesn't have to worry about being married off and it was established just a couple scenes before that she hated and burned all bridges with Tywin anyway. No, killing Tywin in the show really is immateral to the relationships between the remaining Lannisters. As of right now Tyrion and Jamie are still best buds and Jamie and Cersei are cool. The second one can be easily changed, but not the first.

[Crazedwraith]

On the one hand, cutting the Tysha revelation is damn stupid. On the other hand I wouldn't miss 'where do whores go?' As Tyrion's catchphrase. The guy just becomes vile in Dance For Dragons. It was amazing how bad and boring that book made Tyrion and Jon, previously some of my favourite characters.

And that was not such a big deal for Jaime. He was already moving towards 'i will be honourable now' and splitting with Cersei well before than conversation. At least in the books.

Yes, I personally hated that scene in book. It was awkward, didn't work as presented, IMHO (something that would make them want to kill each other, and they just walk away without even a punch or threat exchange?).'

Err... what? What I got from the book scene was that Tyrion and Jaime were going to do their level best to kill each other should they meet again. Remember Tyrion asking 'tell me truely, how well do you fight with that new hand of yours?' 'rather less well than you' 'then we shall be on equal terms if ever we meet again'

[Ziggy Stardust]

Don't the show runners consult with Martin, and as such he has a big hand in the show? To me, that implies either that the Tyrion-Jaime hate isnt important enough in the long run of the plot for the show to bother with it, or that they have another plot twist in mind for getting them to hate each other.

[Imperial Overlord]

The only thing that occurs in the books is that immediately upon hearing his brother confess a painful secret Tyrion is angry. This is a perfectly normal reaction. It doesn't mean that he's going to try and kill Jaime, it means that's right now, upon hearing about Tysha, he's pissed. That's it. Since he doesn't spend book five plotting Jaime's horrible death, that's probably all that there is. God knows I've torn a strip off my own brother for doing less.