British Airways grounds people with uncharged cell phones

[Borgholio]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 90757.html

British Airways passengers who are unable to turn on electronic devices when asked risk being immediately banned from their US flight and having to reschedule, even if they offer to abandon the item or send it on separately, it has been reported.

Any transfer passenger whose device has gone flat on the first leg will also be prevented from their onward travel unless they can recharge first, The Telegraph reported last night.

Turning on an electronic device can show a security screener that the laptop computer or mobile phone is a working device and that its batteries are not hidden explosives.

A new rule being used in both airports suggests that if a “device doesn’t switch on, you won’t be allowed to bring it on to the aircraft”. Checks will be carried out at London's Heathrow both at passport control and boarding gates, while a spokeswoman for Manchester Airport told the BBC that device power checks would only be done by airline staff at departure gates.

Changes were announced after Washington Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson ordered beefed up security at foreign airports from where aircraft fly directly to the US. US officials reportedly said the move was the result of intelligence that al Qaida's chief bomb maker, Ibrahim Hassan al-Asiri, who is thought to be based in Yemen, had linked up with jihadists in Syria to pass on his skills

A spokesman for BA said: “British Airways is complying with the new security requirements from the US government on flights from the UK to the US.”

Yes, because the time it takes to go through security was actually dropping as people adapted to the new system...which must mean they're not being invasive enough.

[Purple]

With rules like these how long do you think it will be before ocean liners become a thing again?

[Grumman]

With rules like these how long do you think it will be before ocean liners become a thing again?

That isn't a practical solution. If the DHS was acting out of a genuine desire to protect people it might work, but what would really happen is that the DHS would follow you there and ruin ocean liner travel the same way they've ruined plane travel.

[General Zod]

You can thank the TSA for jumping at shadows. They're reacting to sketchy reports that terrorists "might" start using electronics to smuggle bombs. Bunch of idiots.

[aerius]

Would this be a good time to mention exploding breast implants?

[Terralthra]

I actually predicted this tactic (and the next tactic on their list) on smugglers' parts a few years ago. Electronic devices have lots of spare room inside them (relatively speaking) along with some decently-sized components which are undifferentiated chemical blocks ideal for concealing plastic explosives. The problem is that concealing an explosive inside dummy electronics is only slightly behind the idea of constructing a false electronic device with only minimal function so as to fool customs/TSA/DHS. A USB hard drive with the hard drive replaced by your contraband and the USB jack replaced by an internal USB flash drive is the most obvious solution that comes to mind.

[General Zod]

I actually predicted this tactic (and the next tactic on their list) on smugglers' parts a few years ago. Electronic devices have lots of spare room inside them (relatively speaking) along with some decently-sized components which are undifferentiated chemical blocks ideal for concealing plastic explosives. The problem is that concealing an explosive inside dummy electronics is only slightly behind the idea of constructing a false electronic device with only minimal function so as to fool customs/TSA/DHS. A USB hard drive with the hard drive replaced by your contraband and the USB jack replaced by an internal USB flash drive is the most obvious solution that comes to mind.

There's enough extra space in most electronics that it shouldn't matter if it turned on or not. Just get a laptop with a tray for a second hard-drive and you're good to go.

[Zaune]

It's not entirely new; my dad had to do the same thing with his old IBM Thinkpad in the 90s when he was on a business trip to Belfast.

[Mr. Coffee]

Gonna echo Zaune here, this ain't at all new. In the last 20 years I have yet to fly without being asked by the security checkpoint wogs to turn on electronic devices I bring with me.

[bilateralrope]

Given how many stories I've heard of batteries exploding or catching fire by accident, I wonder how hard it would be to make make an explosive which also functions as a battery.

I also wonder how many people with explosives the TSA has actually caught. Is the number 0 ?

[Batman]

Laptop. 2nd battery instead of the DVD drive. 'Powers up, you're clear.' Congratulations-you just let a bomb onto the aircraft. This is so unreliable it's useless.

[Borgholio]

I'm only asked to take my electronic devices out of their bags / cases for security. The only time in my life I was asked to actually turn something on was when I went to the 2002 Olympics in Utah. One of the National Guardsman asked me to turn on my camcorder for him, he took it, played around with it a bit, then turned it off and handed it back to me and waved me through. Given how soon it was after 9/11, I was not at all surprised by how thorough they were. But you'd think that someone would have thought actually going through with putting a bomb in an electronic device in the last 13 years...especially given how electronics tended to be larger back then and could hold more explosives. Nowadays, can you even fit an explosive in an iPhone strong enough to do more than blow off your hand?

[Enigma]

Nowadays, can you even fit an explosive in an iPhone strong enough to do more than blow off your hand?

C4 comes to mind.

[Borgholio]

Can a stick of c4 the size of an iPhone actually do that much?

[Terralthra]

Can a stick of c4 the size of an iPhone actually do that much?

C4 has a relative effectiveness of 1.34, meaning it has approximately 3.75 mJ/kg, and a density of 1.57 g/cm3. Taking my Galaxy Nexus as the baseline for a smartphone, it's 135.5 x 67.94 x 8.94 mm, for a total volume of 82.3 cm^3, or ~130 grams of C4. In Imperial, that's ~4 oz, or, well, this. Not nothing, especially aboard an airplane.

[General Zod]

Can a stick of c4 the size of an iPhone actually do that much?

You're flying in a pressurized metal tube. How much damage do you think you really need to do?

[Borgholio]

Can a stick of c4 the size of an iPhone actually do that much?

You're flying in a pressurized metal tube. How much damage do you think you really need to do?

You'd need to punch a pretty large hole in the side of the plane, which is why I was wondering how much damage an iPhone sized slice of c4 could do.

[General Zod]

Can a stick of c4 the size of an iPhone actually do that much?

You're flying in a pressurized metal tube. How much damage do you think you really need to do?

You'd need to punch a pretty large hole in the side of the plane, which is why I was wondering how much damage an iPhone sized slice of c4 could do.

[Simon_Jester]

If it were smack up against the fuselage, I am pretty sure ~100-200 grams of high explosive could blow a significant hole in the fuselage. Enough to be a major problem and force the aircraft to land.

In the middle of the Atlantic.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The only time I've ever seen airport security ask to turn an electronic device on was when my dad was bringing infrared cameras through. Now, these weren't just little handheld infrared cameras, this was a heavy duty piece of equipment. Unfortunately I forget the brand so I can't look it up and give a picture, but it was almost the size of a television camera (meaning you need to brace it with two hands on your shoulder) and had a cryogenic cooling unit inside. It really sent them into a tizzy.

Besides that, I've never had anyone ask me to turn a computer, camera, or cell phone on.

[Broomstick]

If it were smack up against the fuselage, I am pretty sure ~100-200 grams of high explosive could blow a significant hole in the fuselage. Enough to be a major problem and force the aircraft to land.

In the middle of the Atlantic.

The problem is not depressurization. That is annoying. The airplane will still fly with a hole in its side and lower internal pressure. In fact, an airliner can fly even with a chunk of the fuselage ripped open. This one

was brought to a safe, controlled landing despite the damage you see.

The danger is hitting a critical system - that would be taking out the flight controls, for example, or the hydraulic system. But everything on an airliner is triple redundant or more, A targeted small charge might do it, but you have to really know where to put it and have access to that particular point.

[Mange]

N/M.