On historical/cultural slurs and references

[Metahive]

No assheadhole, I'm saying that he wasn't banned specifically for that and that it's stupid to compare them. As demonstrated by the fact that crazy black supremacist guy got a warning for calling people crackers instead of an auto ban like he would have for nigger.

Have you actually read Edi's warning? Methinks you failed to do so.

ETA:

You will refrain from using racist terms on this forum. Failure to comply will result in you being instantly and permanently banned without warning.

This post is the only warning you will get on that subject and if any more people show up from wherever you came from, they will get no warning at all, since I will ban anyone who starts this kind of shit even before their posts are approved.

[Ralin]

Not for awhile, no. I said I was going from memory. But the point stands. Do you really think he'd have gotten that much warning normally?

Can't speak for Edi, but I'm pretty sure he normally bans on sight for that shit. And again I say, you are ignoring the long, long laundry list of other racist (and homophobic) shit the guy said after he was not-banned for calling people crackers. So yeah, you're basically using the example of a crazy guy who got handled with kid gloves (by SDN standards) to show why using a racial slur that doesn't mean what you thought it meant and that near as I can tell none of us white people actually seem to care about other than on general principles is the same as calling Germans Nazis. Not convinced, man. Not convinced.

[Thanas]

Can't you two kiss and make up already?

[Metahive]

Not for awhile, no. I said I was going from memory. But the point stands. Do you really think he'd have gotten that much warning normally?

Can't speak for Edi, but I'm pretty sure he normally bans on sight for that shit. And again I say, you are ignoring the long, long laundry list of other racist (and homophobic) shit the guy said after he was not-banned for calling people crackers. So yeah, you're basically using the example of a crazy guy who got handled with kid gloves (by SDN standards) to show why using a racial slur that doesn't mean what you thought it meant and that near as I can tell none of us white people actually seem to care about other than on general principles is the same as calling Germans Nazis. Not convinced, man. Not convinced.

The part I quoted does specifically refer to racist terms.

Can't you two kiss and make up already?

Careful, Koreans use french kissing to steal organs from unsuspecting victims to feed our young.

[Borgholio]

Careful, Koreans use french kissing to steal organs from unsuspecting victims to feed our young.

So THAT's why Kimchi always smells like crap...

[Edi]

Calling a black person a nigger is and always has been an instant ban offense here. Same as calling a gay person a faggot or some of the other homophobic insults aimed at them. Other racial / ethnic slurs going into the instabannination box are wetback for Mexicans/Latinos and probably some derogatory names for Asians.

With regard to the word cracker, a bit more complex than ban on sight. We've had some regular members use that term in an ironically self-referential manner and a couple of black members have used it toward white members in a manner of a mild rebuke in a few instances with nobody getting banned and everybody understanding what was meant and a more or less good debate was had by all.

THEN we have the Afrocentrist morons (globalafrikanpower, Mystikal, Louisvilleslugger, Big Triece). Hoo-boy....

• unfounded pseudoscience
• ignoring evidence
• every debating fallacy in the book
• chestbeating internet tough-guy bullshit
• gratuitous usage of the word cracker as a pointedly racial slur
• often gratuitous homophobic slurs on top of that

Yeah, I let those guys unceremoniously have it with both barrels.

You can find some of the best afrocentrist highlights by just doing a forum search for that word. Thanas, I and several other people repeatedly engaged them in debate and right now the official board policy with regard to Afrocentrists is that we no longer even bother waiting for them to start hurling racial insults. It's one warning to stop posting that discredited crap and failure to comply means an instant introduction to Mr. Hammer, Ban Hammer.

I don't remember if we actually banned Big Triece (we did ban all of the others, though), just took to locking and HoSing his posts on sight and he hasn't cropped up since.

So, while it is possible to use the word cracker in a non-derogatory way and avoid getting in hot water over it, it is a very, very fine line to walk and in most cases it is better to just refrain from it because it is all too easy to step on the wrong side of it. At which point you're going to have some fast explaining to do. About the only safe usage would be the jokingly self-referential one and even then it is usually in bad taste if nothing else.

[General Zod]

I can't say I've ever heard anyone actually throw around the term "cracker" in real life. "White-boy" on the other hand . . .

[Borgholio]

What of the topic of being politically correct? There are some blacks who find it offensive and a racial slur to be called black, even though the alternate term (African-American) is (IMO) inaccurate and inappropriate.

[Iroscato]

On this subject, my dad still insists that the term 'negro' is a perfectly valid way to describe black people, and isn't the least bit offensive. I argue the term is just a couple of rungs beneath 'nigger' in terms of What Not To Say.
Thoughts?

[Borgholio]

If you were to rate it, I think that Negro is a step above because negro is also a word that has legitimate linguistic uses. For instance, "negro" is the Spanish and Portuguese word for the color black. Then you have "colored" which is probably about the same level because blacks still do refer to themselves as colored in some cases (NAACP).

[Ziggy Stardust]

Negro definitely has negative connotations, and in general black people would not react well to being called that. That said, it is not on the same level of "nigger" because the latter term is, and always has been, explicitly and painfully insulting. There is absolutely no equivocation about that. Whereas "negro" is loaded because it often does has this association with pre-Civil Rights America, the term was never really meant as a slur the way "nigger" was and is. In the 19th and early 20th century, it was the equivalent of someone saying "black" or "colored" today. That said, it isn't a great idea to throw around. While it isn't as vitriolic, it carries with it the strange almost paternalistic overtones from the era where black people were still considered inferior, even if slavery was illegal.

[Ralin]

If you were to rate it, I think that Negro is a step above because negro is also a word that has legitimate linguistic uses. For instance, "negro" is the Spanish and Portuguese word for the color black. Then you have "colored" which is probably about the same level because blacks still do refer to themselves as colored in some cases (NAACP).

Which really doesn't matter worth a damn if you aren't speaking Spanish or Portuguese. Chinaman is a more or less direct translation of the Chinese word for "Chinese person" and it's hella offensive. Ask Wong how he feels about it sometime if you don't believe me.

[AniThyng]

I sometimes wonder what people want, because it seems some people will get offended if you try to treat them based on race, and some will get offended if you do not make allowances for race. And then there's the whole "no, chinese and japanese people do not look the same, do we all look alike to you?" AND "how dare you try to find out if i'm chinese or japanese(-american), why does it matter, racist?"

Edited because from my limited understanding of SJ blogs, the problems of the diaspora in america cannot be equivilated to that of the home country, and for some things, just because a japanese or chinese native says they don't find <insert thing here> offensive doesn;t mean the hyphenated american shouldn't also. (like, that avril lavaigne video - appearently it's hella offensive because cultural appropriation, nevermind that the crew and director were native japanese and japanese in japan loved it, japanese-americans should be offended!)

[Ralin]

Pretty much. Which is why "I am a member of X group and I find this *blank* to my heritage and identity, you privileged fuck" can never be an argument. Being black or a woman or trans or whatever means I take someone that much more seriously when it comes to stuff they would have experience with or a personal stake in. It doesn't mean I automatically accept it when they say something is offensive or incorrect or whatever. No one gets that.

Case in point, certain people insist that "bitch" is a slur against women. I know a shitload of women who think that's fucking stupid. Clearly "Minority member I know says X" is not going to resolve who's right here.

[Elheru Aran]

The general rule of thumb is to just go with one (semi-correct) term unless someone in that group objects to your use of that term. Then the polite thing is to ask them what they prefer, use that while you're in their company, and carry on. Honestly it's not worth standing on your guns about.

That's social interaction, though. For something like, say, writing for a newspaper, consult any applicable style guide and follow it unless you find it personally objectionable.

At some point you have to draw the line on political correctness, or you run into a position where you can only ever use vague, neutral terms to refer to anybody regardless of race. Which in a sense isn't such a bad thing...

[General Zod]

I sometimes wonder what people want, because it seems some people will get offended if you try to treat them based on race, and some will get offended if you do not make allowances for race. And then there's the whole "no, chinese and japanese people do not look the same, do we all look alike to you?" AND "how dare you try to find out if i'm chinese or japanese(-american), why does it matter, racist?"

Edited because from my limited understanding of SJ blogs, the problems of the diaspora in america cannot be equivilated to that of the home country, and for some things, just because a japanese or chinese native says they don't find <insert thing here> offensive doesn;t mean the hyphenated american shouldn't also. (like, that avril lavaigne video - appearently it's hella offensive because cultural appropriation, nevermind that the crew and director were native japanese and japanese in japan loved it, japanese-americans should be offended!)

I have a simple rule about race; I don't bring it up unless someone else does. Then it's whatever the fuck they feel like calling themselves. (Which is incidentally my same rule for religion.)