French government dissolved.

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Borgholio
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French government dissolved.

Post by Borgholio »

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... t-25109782
French President Francois Hollande dissolved the government on Monday after open feuding in his Cabinet over the country's stagnant economy.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls offered up his Socialist government's resignation after accusing the outspoken economy minister of crossing a line with his blunt criticism of the government's policies. Hollande accepted the resignation and ordered Valls to form a new government by Tuesday.

France has had effectively no economic growth this year, unemployment is hovering around 10 percent, and Hollande's approval ratings are in the teens. The country is under pressure from the European Union to get its finances in order, but Economy Minister Arnaud Montebourg has questioned whether the austerity pressed by the EU will kick start French growth.

Hollande's promises to cut taxes and make it easier for businesses to open and operate have stalled, meanwhile, in large part because of the divisions among Socialists.

"A major change in our economy policy," was what Montebourg had said was needed, just days after Hollande had expressly said there would be no change in direction.

The minister's comments angered the Socialist leadership, which said Montebourg's job was to support the government, not criticize it from within.

"He's not there to start a debate but to put France back on the path of growth," Carlos Da Silva, the Socialist Party spokesman, told Le Figaro newspaper.

Montebourg's criticism of austerity — and his pointed remarks about German Chancellor Angela Merkel — have rankled before.

In an interview last week, after Germany's economy also showed signs of stagnation, Montebourg said France's neighbor had been "trapped by the policy of austerity." He went on to say "when I say Germany, I mean the German right wing that supports Angela Merkel. It's not France's job to align itself to the ideological axioms of Germany's right wing."

Montebourg represents the hard-left Socialist base, and his departure from the government is likely to anger many of the voters who brought Hollande to office in 2012. Since that time, France's economy has only worsened, and the sense of impending crisis weighs heavily.

French officials have already made clear that the deficit will again surpass the 3 percent target set by the European Union, and are negotiating a delay.

Merkel on Monday declined to comment directly about the change in government but said she wishes "the French president success with his reform agenda."

So from someone not fully familiar with French politics...is this a big deal or something that happens from time to time? From an American perspective, it seems akin to the president dissolving Congress. Is that correct or is it different?
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Dalton »

I think it's not uncommon, and from what I've read the French president is allowed to dissolve the government after consultation with certain people so that a new governmental body may be elected.

In a sense, that would be just like the President dissolving Congress and you have no idea how badly some of us want that to happen.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Borgholio »

Well the president dissolving Congress would be a pretty damn big deal so I mean if it happens from time to time in France then it's probably not as bad as it sounds.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Patroklos »

It's more like the President dissolving his cabinet as far as the functions impacted to. There is no true comparison between the events as the forms of government differ radically at the executive level.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Borgholio »

Ah ok, that makes more sense. Dissolving the cabinet would be newsworthy but that's about it. Thanks.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Zaune »

Dalton wrote:In a sense, that would be just like the President dissolving Congress and you have no idea how badly some of us want that to happen.
Is there no method for calling an early Congressional election in the US, then?
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

Zaune wrote:
Dalton wrote:In a sense, that would be just like the President dissolving Congress and you have no idea how badly some of us want that to happen.
Is there no method for calling an early Congressional election in the US, then?
Nope. Well, maybe if Congress happened to be at the impact site of a small asteroid. Otherwise, nope.

And, besides, Congresspersons have a ~90% reelection rate.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Elheru Aran »

Zaune wrote:
Dalton wrote:In a sense, that would be just like the President dissolving Congress and you have no idea how badly some of us want that to happen.
Is there no method for calling an early Congressional election in the US, then?
For the entire Congress? No. On occasion a Congressperson will basically resign in lieu of being dismissed, generally when they fuck up badly such as Larry Craig's little bathroom adventure. In such a case typically the Governor or the state legislature will appoint a temporary replacement until the next election rolls around. I believe recall votes are also an option, but I'm not positive. This only really applies to individuals, though.

But as far as I know there is no method to dissolve Congress and mandate a national election. In a country the size of the United States, with 535+ Congresspersons, this would be a bit of a logistical and political nightmare. It would also give the executive branch a bit more power than a lot of people would be comfortable with...
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Dalton »

Right. There's also recall elections, but I'm not sure if those are on a federal level.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by xerex »

Elheru Aran wrote: But as far as I know there is no method to dissolve Congress and mandate a national election. In a country the size of the United States, with 535+ Congresspersons, this would be a bit of a logistical and political nightmare. It would also give the executive branch a bit more power than a lot of people would be comfortable with...
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Raw Shark »

The House of Representatives is (theoretically) up for grabs every two years anyway (though the number of Americans who ignore such elections when there is no Presidency at stake is staggering, which explains a lot of the peculiarities of our politics because a few fanatics decide everything half of the time), so formal removal maneuvers don't seem like a priority to most citizens considering that they would probably take that long anyway. The Senate seats are only at stake every six years, so they're able to get away with more with time to let people forget, and nobody thinks about it too much if they do that right.

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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by FTeik »

To get back to the situation in France, this could be the foreplay of things to come: If Hollande resigns or is forced to step back, his critics - especially those, who were members of the cabinet - certainly don't want to be associated with the sinking ship of Hollande's presidency. Montebourg and Co. might just position themselves for new, early elections, if they come (the next regular elections would be 2017).
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Ahriman238 »

It's really not a huge deal, the finance minister annoyed the president (France has both a president and a PM) who told Hollande to fix it. By a peculiarity of French politics, the only way to fire a minister (if they elect not to resign) is to dissolve the Government, which as others have said is more like the administration/cabinet than the entire government, then reform it next day and give everyone but one or two people their jobs back. Which is what's happening here.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Elfdart »

Elheru Aran wrote: For the entire Congress? No. On occasion a Congressperson will basically resign in lieu of being dismissed, generally when they fuck up badly such as Larry Craig's little bathroom adventure. In such a case typically the Governor or the state legislature will appoint a temporary replacement until the next election rolls around. I believe recall votes are also an option, but I'm not positive. This only really applies to individuals, though.

But as far as I know there is no method to dissolve Congress and mandate a national election. In a country the size of the United States, with 535+ Congresspersons, this would be a bit of a logistical and political nightmare. It would also give the executive branch a bit more power than a lot of people would be comfortable with...
I think the reason US elections are set on fixed schedules is precisely to keep this sort of thing from happening.

As for dissolving Congress, the closest you can get to that under the Constitution is the provision in Article 2 for a president to adjourn a Congress, or call one back into session that has already been adjourned.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Irbis »

Ahriman238 wrote:It's really not a huge deal, the finance minister annoyed the president (France has both a president and a PM) who told Hollande to fix it.
Um, Hollande IS the president. I think you meant Valls here.
Elheru Aran wrote:But as far as I know there is no method to dissolve Congress and mandate a national election. In a country the size of the United States, with 535+ Congresspersons, this would be a bit of a logistical and political nightmare. It would also give the executive branch a bit more power than a lot of people would be comfortable with...
Funny that, EU manages to do it every 5 years on even larger parliament plus 500 million voter base and EU's executive branch power is a total joke.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Gaidin »

Irbis wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:But as far as I know there is no method to dissolve Congress and mandate a national election. In a country the size of the United States, with 535+ Congresspersons, this would be a bit of a logistical and political nightmare. It would also give the executive branch a bit more power than a lot of people would be comfortable with...
Funny that, EU manages to do it every 5 years on even larger parliament plus 500 million voter base and EU's executive branch power is a total joke.
Does EU have a methodology of how it will be done and how it's in the Executive's power? Or did the EU's executive just up and decide it was going to happen one year? It literally is outside our Executive's power to just dissolve the legislature at a whim. Why separate the branches of government if you're going to let that happen as opposed to on a schedule, like, the every five years you mentioned? That's convenient. Now, the cabinet, the part of the French government that got dissolved, that part of the American government literally does serve at the President's pleasure doesn't it?
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Irbis »

Gaidin wrote:Now, the cabinet, the part of the French government that got dissolved, that part of the American government literally does serve at the President's pleasure doesn't it?
No, unlike USA, France has semi-presidential system, and it's PM that has a large part of power the President in USA has. Hollande only stepped in because he has powers PM needed to rein in his minister that openly rebelled.
Does EU have a methodology of how it will be done and how it's in the Executive's power?
The problem with EU is that there are so many centres of power in each branch of government that they (and stronger member states) manage to check each other 3/4th of a time and you really need a big, unanimous push to get things done. That's why the executive is a joke despite nominally large powers.

Also, I was mostly referring how election of 535+ Congresspersons in USA is a big problem when EU can elect 755 in much more complicated environment in half the time even despite the above elbowing.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Zeropoint »

If we were going to dissolve Congress, what kind of acid would be best?
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Borgholio »

Zeropoint wrote:If we were going to dissolve Congress, what kind of acid would be best?
Hydrochloric. It's what the body uses to kill harmful organisms and viruses in the stomach. Might work with a congressional infection too.
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Re: French government dissolved.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Dalton wrote:Right. There's also recall elections, but I'm not sure if those are on a federal level.
It depends on the state. Some states like AZ can recall ANY elected official from office, from the constituency in which they are elected. Local, state, fed. Does not matter. IIRC, this is the case in AZ. So if the district wanted to recall a rep, they can. Though with a representative there is little point because their terms are so short that by the time the petitions are done and validated the representative's term is up. A senator though? Oh yeah.
Funny that, EU manages to do it every 5 years on even larger parliament plus 500 million voter base and EU's executive branch power is a total joke.
Sure, but when the EU formed, it had the benefit of communications that are faster than a horse-mounted courier's riding speed. The US is the first modern republic (city states not withstanding) and there has not been a pressing need (and in point of fact, no desire to risk some of the political consequences of the Constitutional Convention necessary to massively rewrite how federal elections are held*) to change over from a system wherein elections have a fixed schedule, to a system wherein No Confidence votes can be held and elections called.

Holding a new election on short notice would not be a problem today. It WOULD be a problem back when the government was designed. That, I think, was the original point.

................

*We basically have two amendment procedures. Someone can propose a specific amendment, it gets voted on in congress and requires a supermajority to pass, then the states have a number of years specified when the amendment was voted on in congress to ratify the amendment in their legislature, and the legislature will often devolve this to plebiscite IIRC. This is usually used for small things like striking a sentence, adding a small provision like the 1st Amendment, or modifying an existing provision (such as imposing a presidential term limit)

The other requires a Constitutional Convention wherein 2/3rds of the state legislatures demand a convention be held to propose amendments. The people doing this are different from those who are in the federal congress, and basically.... anything could happen. It is not a specific thing, they Propose Amendments by supermajority vote (and their composition will vary state to state in who goes to this convention), which then go to the state legislatures for ratification and the federal congress gets no say whatsoever.
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