A little bit of Terminator Analysis

[darth_timon]

http://meerkatmusings.co.uk/sci-fi-anal ... ator-saga/

I've recently thrown this together and it's still a work in progress, so I'm keen to get any feedback/ideas from the good people of SDnet.

[Borgholio]

Well the analysis of the T-800 seems spot-on. They are hard sons of bitches to kill. Regarding the power cell problem...it could be that one of the upgrades between the t-800 and the t-850 was the new power cell. The question is how it can simply explode like that. I'm not aware of any material with that kind of power density short of a slug of uranium. And the question also remains, why would Skynet equip it's terminators with power cells that can take out friendlies if hit with a well-placed shot from a member of the resistance? The T-800s took a hell of a beating and never exploded.

Comically, the power cell issue can be compared to the difference in stability between a Constitution-class warp core and a Galaxy-class warp core.

[Channel72]

Isn't the exploding power cell from a deleted scene?

[darth_timon]

Isn't the exploding power cell from a deleted scene?

Not that I know of. Pretty sure it's from the cinematic release of T3 - when they're driving out from the city and the Terminator opens its chest plate.

[darth_timon]

Well the analysis of the T-800 seems spot-on. They are hard sons of bitches to kill. Regarding the power cell problem...it could be that one of the upgrades between the t-800 and the t-850 was the new power cell. The question is how it can simply explode like that. I'm not aware of any material with that kind of power density short of a slug of uranium. And the question also remains, why would Skynet equip it's terminators with power cells that can take out friendlies if hit with a well-placed shot from a member of the resistance? The T-800s took a hell of a beating and never exploded.

Comically, the power cell issue can be compared to the difference in stability between a Constitution-class warp core and a Galaxy-class warp core.

I wonder if the T-X's weaponry is specifically designed to rupture the fuel cells of the T-800/T850 models? Or otherwise affect them to trigger a rupture?

[Borgholio]

I wonder if the T-X's weaponry is specifically designed to rupture the fuel cells of the T-800/T850 models? Or otherwise affect them to trigger a rupture?

I suppose it's possible, but the T-X weapons seemed to be ordinary plasma weapons to me.

[darth_timon]

I've just added the T-1000 page as well, if anyone is interested.

[Darth Nostril]

I wonder if the T-X's weaponry is specifically designed to rupture the fuel cells of the T-800/T850 models? Or otherwise affect them to trigger a rupture?

I suppose it's possible, but the T-X weapons seemed to be ordinary plasma weapons to me.

The dialogue from the exploding power cell scene in T3 outright states that the T-X is designed to take out other terminators.

[Borgholio]

Then maybe it COULD be something special that destabilizes the fuel cell.

[Tribble]

With regards to the power cell, according to the T1 novelization, the T-800's power cell was capable of operating at full power for 3 years, and it could extend this further by going into an economy mode. According to T2 the power cell could last "120 years, under normal conditions". I find it odd that Skynet would put a 120 year battery into a machine which was going to have very high casulty rates; 3 years would be just as good for its intended role. The two timeframes are not necessarily contradictory though - "normal conditions" could include maintaince and refueling. Perhaps with periodic maintainance and refuelling every 3 years, the power cell could last 120 years before needing to be physically replaced. That's a pretty damn good power supply if you ask me.

I think it's rpetty clear that the T-800 and T-850 are using different power supplies. In T1, the T-800's power supply was crushed in a hydralic press, but it did not explode. In T-2 the T-800's power supply was driven through with a crowbar, but it did not explode. In T-3 the T-850s first "hydrogen fuel cell" suffers damage due to the T-X's plasma weapon, and explodes with enough force to generate a mushroom cloud. The T-850's second cell is ruptured when the T-850 jams it into the T-X's mouth, and it also explodes with enough force to produce a mushroom cloud. IMO the ladder incident clearly demonstrates that the T-800 and T-850s power cells are not the same, as the physical rupture of the power cell was sufficent to trigger the explosion without the T-X's weapons being involved at all.

It makes no real sense why the power cells between the T-800 and T-850 would be completely different, as the ladder's power cells don't appear to give it any practical edge. Some forums have suggested that this was so that the T-850 would have a weapon of last resort, but that's a ridiculous assumption to make. If the T-850's power cells were deliberately designed to explode, why would the T-850 be required to physically take them out and rupture them somehow, instead of having an internal self-destruct sequence?

Why the discrepancy? Well, T3 takes place in a different timeline, so it's possible that the Skynet of that future built its units differently. IMO that makes more sense than Skynet deciding on a whim to give the T-850 a completely different power cell just in case it needs to blow some shit up without having any weapons handy.

[Ted C]

I think pretty much any anti-tank weapon would be sufficient to disable a T-800. If a home-made pipe bomb can take pieces off, a dedicated armor-piercing weapon should, as well. It doesn't take significant damage from conventional small arms, but it's far from invulnerable if you know what you're up against and have sufficient resources.

I tend to question how much harm the T-1000 was taking from gunfire. The liquid metal itself doesn't seem to suffer any harm from physical impacts: it deforms under a strong enough force, but it can easily reform. Extremes of temperature are its real vulnerability. That, and separation. The "hook" that the T-800 blasted off of one of its arms during the mental institution escape became inert once separated from the main body. Presumably it has a "chip" floating somewhere in its mass, much like the CPU of the T-800, and the chip has a limited range for controlling the liquid metal. In fact, the chip is probably the T-100's real weakness: anything that damages the chip will permanently affect the T-1000, as the chip isn't "self-healing".

[Ted C]

Isn't the exploding power cell from a deleted scene?

Not that I know of. Pretty sure it's from the cinematic release of T3 - when they're driving out from the city and the Terminator opens its chest plate.

It's a plot point. The T-850 has two power cells. One is damaged in an early fight, and the T-850 removes it and throws it out of a car window, where it explodes a few seconds later. Spoiler

In the final fight, it uses its remaining power cell to destroy the T-X.

[Tribble]

As for the T-1000... I don't think it can be destroyed by small arms fire. You might be able to split it up and scatter it all over the place, but eventually it would reform. Hell, according to the script writers you could take the T-1000, split it into a bunch of boxes and ship them all across the world, and while you would probably be safe for the rest of your life the T-1000 would eventually manage to rebuild itself. IMO the only way to damage the T-1000 is to alter its molecular structure. Being frozen in liquid notrogen damaged it in the extended version, but did not destroy it. I'm not entirely sure if extreme heat alone is sufficient as it seemed to me that what killed the T-1000 was the liquid iron atoms bonding to its molecular strucutre and rendering it inert, though that's pure speculation on my part.

I don't think there's a chip involved. I always thought the hook deliberately remained inert in order to not draw attention to itself. The T-1000 was probably hoping that they wouldn't notice the piece of it imbeded in the car and that the main mass could track them using it. Or perhaps the piece was going to wait until everyone's guard was down, then try to take John out. Whatever the intentions, John quickly recognized the danger and threw it out before it could do anything.

[Starglider]

Presumably it has a "chip" floating somewhere in its mass, much like the CPU of the T-800, and the chip has a limited range for controlling the liquid metal. In fact, the chip is probably the T-100's real weakness: anything that damages the chip will permanently affect the T-1000, as the chip isn't "self-healing".

The novelisation refutes this pretty clearly; the whole mass works as a brain and a sensor, separated parts just have minimal intelligence and the main goal of reforming.

[darth_timon]

[ur]http://meerkatmusings.co.uk/sci-fi-anal ... ator-saga/[/url]

Now added the T-X page and one about Skynet too.

[Tribble]

Presumably it has a "chip" floating somewhere in its mass, much like the CPU of the T-800, and the chip has a limited range for controlling the liquid metal. In fact, the chip is probably the T-100's real weakness: anything that damages the chip will permanently affect the T-1000, as the chip isn't "self-healing".

The novelisation refutes this pretty clearly; the whole mass works as a brain and a sensor, separated parts just have minimal intelligence and the main goal of reforming.

Ya, I rememeber reading that as well. The more parts there are the smaller they get, and the less they have to work with. Plus, if the pieces all start working seperately from eachother there is a danger that they will become even more fragmented, to the point of being useless. So it would make sense that there is a primary directive to keep the unit together in one piece.

[darth_timon]

Argh, I seem to have screwed up the latest link, could a mod fix it for me please?

[Tribble]

Btw, if your interested you should check out this fansite: http://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/

Note that the author only really talks about T1 and T2, though IMO that's perfectly fine because T3 and T4 take place in different timelines from T1 and T2 (preferably they wouldn't have been made, but I digress.)

[Gaidin]

Well the analysis of the T-800 seems spot-on. They are hard sons of bitches to kill. Regarding the power cell problem...it could be that one of the upgrades between the t-800 and the t-850 was the new power cell. The question is how it can simply explode like that. I'm not aware of any material with that kind of power density short of a slug of uranium. And the question also remains, why would Skynet equip it's terminators with power cells that can take out friendlies if hit with a well-placed shot from a member of the resistance? The T-800s took a hell of a beating and never exploded.

Comically, the power cell issue can be compared to the difference in stability between a Constitution-class warp core and a Galaxy-class warp core.

Fuel is sometimes like that, all things being equal. And can it really be said to be knocked down to a 'well placed shot'? How many buildings did he go through for that to happen? Last I checked that was the construction vehicle chase in T3...

[Batman]

It's been a long time since I saw T3. What exactly do we know about its power cell? As for Borgholio's comment on power density, theoretically everything has a potential power density of 9E16J/kg. That's why it's important to know how the damned thing worked.

[Tribble]

It's been a long time since I saw T3. What exactly do we know about its power cell? As for Borgholio's comment on power density, theoretically everything has a potential power density of 9E16J/kg. That's why it's important to know how the damned thing worked.

We know that it is a "hydrogen fuel cell". We also know that the T-850 carries two of them, and if one is damaged it will switch to the other. And we know that if the hydrogen fuel cells are damaged, they will explode with enough force to produce a mushroom cloud. That's pretty much it. Finally, we know that the fuel cells are not designed wil self-destruction in mind, as the T-850 had to physically remove its remaining fuel cell and crush it in the T-X's mouth in order to make it detonate.

[Channel72]

Isn't the exploding power cell from a deleted scene?

Not that I know of. Pretty sure it's from the cinematic release of T3 - when they're driving out from the city and the Terminator opens its chest plate.

It's a plot point. The T-850 has two power cells. One is damaged in an early fight, and the T-850 removes it and throws it out of a car window, where it explodes a few seconds later. Spoiler

In the final fight, it uses its remaining power cell to destroy the T-X.

Ah yes... I confused that with the deleted scene in T-2 where they remove Arnold's "read-only" chip so he can learn new things.

I try to forget T3 for the most part.

[biostem]

In your section on the T-800, you say "The picture above is what a T-800 looks like minus its flesh and blood covering – I often wonder if the skeletal appearance was deliberate – designed to spark fear in humans.". They look like skeletons because they act as skeletons for the flesh (or earlier rubber) coverings, so that they could act as infiltration units. From what I remember, the Terminator we see in the 1st 3 movies may have been a T-800 or 850, but more importantly, it was a model 101, which looks like Arnold. Presumably, the 'Cameron' Terminator from T:TSCC would have had to be some other model, possessing a female skeleton of smaller stature. They also introduced the T-888 models, which had a few differences, (a secondary CPU in the event of damage to the first one, or decapitation). There are the much larger ground & aerial Hunter-Killer units, so Skynet probably fields unskinned Terminators simply to cover areas where the HKs are too big to go.

[sarevok2]

T-888 seem like a less armored but better infiltrator variant. Their chassis have been destroyed by concentrated small arms fire. On other hand T-888s have been doing things like living right with humans without them knowing.

[LaCroix]

You cite the scene where the T800 is doused in molten metal and is not damaged, while it is destroyed by being lowered into molten metal - hint: exposure timr.

When doused, there isn't enough time for the heat to damage him. Remember, even after fully submerged in a huge vat of molten metal, it was still functional enough to give kiddy-connor a farewell 'thumbs up'. So it was still functional for about half a minute in 1500°C environment.