So How Do You Kill A Sun Crusher?

[Darth Garden Gnome]

From thew vile depths of the Pit of Anderson arose a thought-an invincible, planet-busting, ship not much bigger than a fighter. It grew into a book, then three books, then.....ohhhh the horror, the horror. He called it, the Sun Crusher.

So how would you go about killing one of these ships? Using SW tech (and no DSs, or other super weapons, mind you) how would stop this tiny terror from busting up your galaxy?

First off, I don't see why some Imperial commander (besides Daala, who could take on the Feds with a Sun Crusher and lose) wouldn't have thought of this earlier. Its quite simple, really. With a crew totally commited to your cause, you could simply suicide the first eleven ships (unfoturnatly, they might be ISDs) to rid it of its torp supply. Now the ship can still actually ram diretcly through any craft (or planet?) and live, so the threat isn't gone without its torps, so why not just tractor it?

Without its torps, and its ability to ram, it'll be effectivly usless in a tractor beam, unless it has some super engines now too! Its tiny laser cannons would do little to the mighty ISD, and it would simply starve out the SC, or drag it to the nearest black hole cluster and dump it in.

TA DA! No more SC!

Note: I got inspiration for this thread from the "favorite super weapon" thread, also on this page.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Well, it's expensive, so you probably won't have more than a few in your galaxy. Anyway, it would become useless after running out of resonance torpedoes.

[Mr Bean]

Without its torps, and its ability to ram, it'll be effectivly usless in a tractor beam, unless it has some super engines now too! Its tiny laser cannons would do little to the mighty ISD, and it would simply starve out the SC, or drag it to the nearest black hole cluster and dump it in.

Heres a hint Dive Towards the Tractor Beam, Whats on the other end? Why a ship you can dive through and destroy!

Its very hard to do what you mention by its very Nature the SC is hard to get a lock on(ITS STEALTHY!) and so far no SW tractors show an abilites to HOLD somthing
(And BTW if they could sorry to say why the heck don't they use any of those ten tractors on an ISD to hold Fighters still so the HTL can hit them with ease huh? Its not like the Tractors are doing anything else!)

Well, it's expensive, so you probably won't have more than a few in your galaxy. Anyway, it would become useless after running out of resonance torpedoes.

Its still one bad ass ship killer or what do you think would happen to the avarage ISD with a Six Meter Hole Drilled through it....

[Sea Skimmer]

Grab it with a couple heavy duty tractor beams mounted on capital ships. Have a gravity well generator going as well. Pound it wit heavy turbolasers to take careo f the laser cannon barrels, and then wait.

They crew has to run out of food somtime..

[Crazy_Vasey]

Repeated blasts from a superlaser would get it eventually. Might take a while like.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

OK your right Bean, getting an SC in a tractor might be more difficult than what first crossed my mind. Still mass-beaming into a certain area with several ships should be sufficient to capture it. It might not be done with fighters simply because its wasteful when lasers and LTLs, plus fighters can do the job much more efficeintly.

And I was under the impression that something in a tractor beam was effectivly stuck, can't move in any direction, even into the beam. After all, if you could, why didn't Han rush the tractor that caught him during the run in with the DS? And don't say it would have been suicidal, because Han didn't seem worried about running from the DS after the beam was down, so he could obviously escape without getting killed.

Furthermore, even in the event that a ship could rush a tractor in such a way, repulser beams could be used to simply repel the ship, effectivly trapping it.

It seems likly that the reason it wasn't caught in such a tractor trap was becasue Daala had only like 2-3 ships at a time when combating something.

[Alyeska]

Actually a single hit form a Super Laser (DS scale) ought to be enough to kill the Sun Crusher. Just being grazed by a powered down shot from the prototype DS nearly killed the SC.

[Ender]

World devestator.

[Alyeska]

World devestator.

Yeah, it ought to have enough powerful tractor beams to hold a Sun Crusher in one place.

[Mr Bean]

You people are ignoring somthing here


WHEN HAS THE TRACTORS ON ISDs, WORLD DEVSTATORS ect EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO PIN A FIGHTER SIZED CRAFT IN PLACE THAT IS NOT TRYING TO DODGE AND WHEN HAS IT EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO HOLD THAT CRAFT IN PLACE!



I demand proof!
Remeber the SC is a fighter sized craft smaller than the MF and it has some speed and manvurablity on it

[Mr Bean]

And trekys spew stuff about Phase-cloacks and what no for shame! You acting just like them, caliming an ability thats never been desmontrated(And pretty damn useful if it was possible, If you could pin a fighter in place why don't they do that to Fighters and let the point weapons shoot a sitting target, Why did they not do it on the DS which had tons of Tractor beams?)

[Crazy_Vasey]

Actually a single hit form a Super Laser (DS scale) ought to be enough to kill the Sun Crusher. Just being grazed by a powered down shot from the prototype DS nearly killed the SC.

It's been a while since I read JAT (for good reason) but all I remember happening was it got knocked around and the guidance systems were buggered up.

[Alyeska]

Actually a single hit form a Super Laser (DS scale) ought to be enough to kill the Sun Crusher. Just being grazed by a powered down shot from the prototype DS nearly killed the SC.

It's been a while since I read JAT (for good reason) but all I remember happening was it got knocked around and the guidance systems were buggered up.

If just being grazed by a powered down shot is enough to do THAT, don't you think being hit square in the middle by a full power shot ought to take it down?

[Alyeska]

You people are ignoring somthing here


WHEN HAS THE TRACTORS ON ISDs, WORLD DEVSTATORS ect EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO PIN A FIGHTER SIZED CRAFT IN PLACE THAT IS NOT TRYING TO DODGE AND WHEN HAS IT EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO HOLD THAT CRAFT IN PLACE!



I demand proof!
Remeber the SC is a fighter sized craft smaller than the MF and it has some speed and manvurablity on it

Heir to the Empire, they sucessfully held Luke in place (abliet for a short time). Thrawn fully expected them to be able to hold Luke for a much longer time period, and it was only sheer luck Luke escaped. This indicated Thrawn has intimate knowledge about the capabilities of his ship, and that ISDs have been able to hold fighter sized craft in the past with the tractor beam.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

You people are ignoring somthing here


WHEN HAS THE TRACTORS ON ISDs, WORLD DEVSTATORS ect EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO PIN A FIGHTER SIZED CRAFT IN PLACE THAT IS NOT TRYING TO DODGE AND WHEN HAS IT EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO HOLD THAT CRAFT IN PLACE!



I demand proof!
Remeber the SC is a fighter sized craft smaller than the MF and it has some speed and manvurablity on it

That is not trying to dodge? I'll take that as a typo.

I believe it was HTTH, or maybe a diffrent one in the Thrawn Trilogy. In either event, Thrawn uses a tractor and captures Luke and his X-Wing with it. Luke escaped by firing topedoes into the tractor, and then hypered away, since the SC will be out of torps after it wastes the incoming craft, it'll be effectivly stopped.

I beileive the reason they aren't used on fighters is because the beams and emitters are described as bulky, and are wasteful compared to laser cannons, LTLS, and other fighters. I've said this earlier, read my posts Bean. The men aboard the first DS were far too overconfident, and who says they didn't on the second one?

As for pinning it in place, a quote from the EGWT: "A tractor beam is a powerful and invisible force field that can captureand move objects with great precision." I await your evidence that a tractor beam can't hold objects.

[Crazy_Vasey]

Actually a single hit form a Super Laser (DS scale) ought to be enough to kill the Sun Crusher. Just being grazed by a powered down shot from the prototype DS nearly killed the SC.

It's been a while since I read JAT (for good reason) but all I remember happening was it got knocked around and the guidance systems were buggered up.

If just being grazed by a powered down shot is enough to do THAT, don't you think being hit square in the middle by a full power shot ought to take it down?

You could make a case either way, it's armour wasn't scratched to my memory so it might survive a full on hit.

Anyway the sun crusher is just an authors wankfest, look I've got a ship that can make bigger explosions than the death star! and it's only fighter sized! and it's virtually invulnerable! Bleh.

[Omega-13]

KIll the crew member, the guy inside is only going to survive for as good as the internal dampening holds him still

if the ship is hit by something at .9c, its going to turn him into tomato sauce, but the ship will be unscratched

[Alyeska]

You people are ignoring somthing here


WHEN HAS THE TRACTORS ON ISDs, WORLD DEVSTATORS ect EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO PIN A FIGHTER SIZED CRAFT IN PLACE THAT IS NOT TRYING TO DODGE AND WHEN HAS IT EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO HOLD THAT CRAFT IN PLACE!



I demand proof!
Remeber the SC is a fighter sized craft smaller than the MF and it has some speed and manvurablity on it

That is not trying to dodge? I'll take that as a typo.

I believe it was HTTH, or maybe a diffrent one in the Thrawn Trilogy. In either event, Thrawn uses a tractor and captures Luke and his X-Wing with it. Luke escaped by firing topedoes into the tractor, and then hypered away, since the SC will be out of torps after it wastes the incoming craft, it'll be effectivly stopped.

I beileive the reason they aren't used on fighters is because the beams and emitters are described as bulky, and are wasteful compared to laser cannons, LTLS, and other fighters. I've said this earlier, read my posts Bean. The men aboard the first DS were far too overconfident, and who says they didn't on the second one?

As for pinning it in place, a quote from the EGWT: "A tractor beam is a powerful and invisible force field that can captureand move objects with great precision." I await your evidence that a tractor beam can't hold objects.

It gets even better. In X-Wing Bacta War, an Empress class space station was able to use a gravity well generator and tractor beams to trap an SSD in place. The SSD was incapable of moving in any direction.

[Mr Bean]

Ahh a challenge Eh?
Tis on your on head for trying!

I believe it was HTTH, or maybe a diffrent one in the Thrawn Trilogy. In either event, Thrawn uses a tractor and captures Luke and his X-Wing with it. Luke escaped by firing topedoes into the tractor, and then hypered away, since the SC will be out of torps after it wastes the incoming craft, it'll be effectivly stopped.

Your example is not valid Luke was not making any manvories at the time, Second COTF stats that one Resonance Torp is good enough to VAP 1% of the DS Structor
By Volume alone thats 9 Star-Destroyer MK IIs there and its direct Heat Transfer, IE such as what the Judicator suffered when it stole Lando's Mole Miners and that was a hundred magintiues LESS that what a Resonance Torp has show the example of being able to do.

I beileive the reason they aren't used on fighters is because the beams and emitters are described as bulky, and are wasteful compared to laser cannons, LTLS, and other fighters. I've said this earlier, read my posts Bean. The men aboard the first DS were far too overconfident, and who says they didn't on the second one?

Straw-man, They where overconfident that the station was imprentrable to attack, Tell me do you think five fire ants would be able to kill you? No? Would you let them keep biting you? Impentrable or not they can still damage the DS and that costs money, What General in History would let a enemy kill some of his men THEN fight back?

If the DS Tractors and Tractors in General where capable of doing what you are saying they are why the heck don't they? Are they so Arrogent they did not even SHOOT at the Fighters? No? Then if Tractors could do what you say why did they not use them?
Its just another weapon if you describe it the way you did

Second, Why do no ISDs, escpialy any of those in the AA or Stackpole X-Wing Books do as you describe, If they could what would the point of TIE Fighters be? If ships where capable of just graping Fighters and holding them in place for the LTL and MTL to destroy why bother bulding them in the first place?

Because its simple THEY CAN'T, What your describing them being able to do is NEVER mentioned in the Movies, the EU, Drunken Lucus Ravings or the Pot induced fantasys that is KJA

As for pinning it in place, a quote from the EGWT: "A tractor beam is a powerful and invisible force field that can capture and move objects with great precision." I await your evidence that a tractor beam can't hold objects.

I awiate your evidance that they can capture fighter sized craft the way you describe as it sure as hell make the DS 1 attack dead in six seconds and Rouge Squadren would not have survived thier first engangment

KIll the crew member, the guy inside is only going to survive for as good as the internal dampening holds him still

if the ship is hit by something at .9c, its going to turn him into tomato sauce, but the ship will be unscratched

SW Internal Damping is amazingy good in case you have not noticed, 500G Turns are not even noticed by pilots and are done every day

Furthermore as they say, you have to hit it first...

It gets even better. In X-Wing Bacta War, an Empress class space station was able to use a gravity well generator and tractor beams to trap an SSD in place. The SSD was incapable of moving in any direction.

Straw-man, Thats a SSD not a Fighter, I don't care if they stoped a Moon thats a rather hard target to miss, please provide proof of them being able to catch manvoring Fighter sized Craft

*SSDs do not a Figher Make

The question is can Tractors acrruatly grap somthing as small as an X-Wing and hold it in place. NOT, SSDs, NOT Nebelion B's not anything else
FIGHTER SIZED CRAFT,

My proof

To prove this I submit the mear EXISTANCE of Rouge Squadren, no strech of the imagination would not explain why a Squadren with a Bounty on every memebers head plus a death mark would explain the numerous ISDs, Vics, Frigits and all those other craft with large Tractors that have never done this to them(Held them in place and let the Point Defense shoot the nice non-moving targets)
Also the First two mins of AHN where the Blocade Runner still manages to do just that RUN AWAY despite the fact there is an ISD on its tail and it only catchs up when the engies are cut off
The ISD's Casing Solo Later on ever hit him with a Tractor and stoped him did they?
The DS however managed to grap him when he was flying in a strait line RIGHT AT IT
TESB- None of the X-Wings or Transports there are graped by Tractors
Agian the MF is not grabed by any Tractors
In the escape from Cloud City they did not grap the MF in a Tractor
ROTJ- Desipte the fact of Tons of Fighters none where ever graped in Tractors
COPL-MF runs by two ISDs and no one manages to Tractor it nor the Frigate he shoots down into the Atomsphere
X-Wing Series-Never Tractors unless not manvoring and numerious types it would have helped
HTE,DFR,TLC-Luke is Caught because he is not manvoring, Numorous other times such as the Brigini raid where Tractoring ships in place would have helped never happens

Need I go on?

[Sea Skimmer]

You people are ignoring somthing here


WHEN HAS THE TRACTORS ON ISDs, WORLD DEVSTATORS ect EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO PIN A FIGHTER SIZED CRAFT IN PLACE THAT IS NOT TRYING TO DODGE AND WHEN HAS IT EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO HOLD THAT CRAFT IN PLACE!



I demand proof!
Remeber the SC is a fighter sized craft smaller than the MF and it has some speed and manvurablity on it

Dialog from X-Wing Wraith squadron indicated that tractor beams could be used to grab fighters.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I thought of a problem with the ramming. Unless it's much heavier than a starfighter, it wouldn't be good for ramming. It would survive the impact undented, though. With the same mass as a starfighter, it would have the same KE.

[Mr Bean]

Dialog from X-Wing Wraith squadron indicated that tractor beams could be used to grab fighters.

Dialog from DS9 Indicates 30 Ships can Slag a planet

Niether is true

Dialog without proof is nothing

For example I recall Wedge speaking of a day after he recived a Certian metal that he could Violate the Laws of Conversation of Energy
(Specficly that he could cly without thrusters and shoot downs Ties by spiting at them )


Of course lacking any proof of this we can safly assume that Wedge can't not fly like Superman
Nor is his spit powerful enough to Down enemy fighters

At its core bascily the same thing as you said

Of course I acutaly quoted the line, you on the other hand....

Thrawn called you an idiot! its true its in a book I read...
By that guy
You know that guy, the one with the parrot?

Try agian boys

[Mr Bean]

I thought of a problem with the ramming. Unless it's much heavier than a starfighter, it wouldn't be good for ramming. It would survive the impact undented, though. With the same mass as a starfighter, it would have the same KE.

Thats not the point it may have the same KE as a Figter(Acutal more its slightly large we have no mass numbers on the ship itself and its shaped like a Diamond(IE Pointy focusing the KE) and unlike a Fighter after it his
IT CAN KEEP GOING

Remeber A-Wing VS Bridge Windows is like Fist VS Glass Door
While the SC is more like a Base-ball bat (It can survie to hit quite a few more windows)

[Darth Yoshi]

It's difficult to nab a fighter sized object unless you caught him off guard, although the Chimera almost managed it in TLC.

[Mr Bean]

It's difficult to nab a fighter sized object unless you caught him off guard, although the Chimera almost managed it in TLC.

Almost and even then it was a far larger Frieghter and though Luke had the nice Cloud of Trace refelective particules he was for all intents and purpose sitting still when they almost got a lock on him agian

Agian another example of a Fighter flying slowly in a strait line thats two and nether one did they acutaly catch him