Havok wrote:I mean, think about it like this... If every fucking building is bigger on the inside, then why would you even NEED to have a barn separate from the main house? You could have hundreds of acres of space inside the house and keep all your animals and hay there and it wouldn't cause any of the inconvenience that necessitates keeping a barn away from the main dwelling in the first place.
Why have a barn in an area that is so wholly desolate in the first place, and obviously of no value to agriculture?
Perhaps it's the Barn of Rassilon, or something.
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NecronLord wrote:Military technology, what? The TARDIS is not a war-machine. It is a scientific vehicle. Neither were SIDRATs in any way built for war. What evidence is there that dimensional transcendence is restricted to military applications on Gallifrey?
Do you watch the fucking show?
Just because they don't use the same terminology doesn't me it is not a military equivalent. Apparently, you have to go to an Academy to be a Time Lord. TARDIS are strictly controlled technology. They have a service life and then get replaced. The Daleks freak the fuck out when they encounter one. The Doctor has repeatedly stated it's the most powerful ship in the universe. They were the main weapons in the Time WAR. What about any of that sayS "Not military" to you?
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While in earlier times in Europe barns and houses did occupy the same structures they did so because both tending the animals in winter was easier when you didn't have to go outside, and the animals' body heat helped warm the dwellings in those same winters. When indoor heating improved the animals were separated from the human living spaces.
And that's why you have a separate barn - because living under the same roof as your livestock means living with smells, hair/dander, animal waste, noises, etc. in your own living quarters.
Gallifreyan buildings might not be full-on TARDIS level of bigger on the inside, but more primitive variations of the tech might well be seen in widespread use on the planet.
As to why build a barn in such a desolate place - why do you assume the place was desolate when the barn was built? As I mentioned, in DotD it was clearly a ruin, perhaps the Time War left a formerly productive area desolate?
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
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Havok wrote:Just because they don't use the same terminology doesn't me it is not a military equivalent. Apparently, you have to go to an Academy to be a Time Lord. TARDIS are strictly controlled technology. They have a service life and then get replaced. The Daleks freak the fuck out when they encounter one. The Doctor has repeatedly stated it's the most powerful ship in the universe. They were the main weapons in the Time WAR. What about any of that sayS "Not military" to you?
Well, fuck, I had to go to flight school to get a pilot's license, airplanes and helicopters have a limited service life, and lots of people freak the fuck out when they see one overhead - that doesn't mean all, or even most, aircraft are military even if aircraft have military applications.
I got the impression the Time Lords modified some of the TARDISes for military use during war but that a lot of them were scientific/civilian in use. If the Doctor's TARDIS is the "most powerful ship in the universe" that could just as well be because all the other more powerful ships were either destroyed in the Time War or trapped in the Time Lock.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
The reason imprisoning Daleks is inane is that there's no reason to keep them, and a million reasons to just destroy them. The Time Lords would have no reason to be merciful to them, and would have no way to break them and get intelligence from them. So the only reason they had one is because the plot of Doomsday required it.
Havok wrote:Yeah and the Doctor is the equivalent of a military officer and a Dalek prison a military one. The TARDIS also supplies his clothing, basically a military warship.
Evidence for these?
Uh, y'know, the SHOW. We see Time Lords giving orders to military officers and soldiers. Time Lords clearly also act as military leaders and advisers as well as the society's leaders.
Because...
Bad Wolf wrote:[Spaceship]
DOCTOR [on viewscreen]: I'm going to save Rose Tyler from the middle of the Dalek fleet
[Floor 500]
DOCTOR: And then I'm going to save the Earth, and then, just to finish off, I'm going to wipe every last stinking Dalek out of the sky!
[Spaceship]
DALEK: But you have no weapons, no defences, no plan.
Yeah, they are talking about the space station, not the TARDIS.
The Parting of the Ways wrote:DALEK: You know the Doctor. You understand him. You will predict his actions.
ROSE: I don't know! And even if I did, I wouldn't tell you.
DALEK: Predict! Predict! Predict!
DALEK 2: Tardis detected in flight.
DALEK: Launch missiles. Exterminate.
ROSE: You can't! The Tardis hasn't got any defences. You're going to kill him.
DALEK: You have predicted correctly.
Please. Since when does obviously wrong dialogue trump what we actually see. How many times have we seen the shields around the TARDIS? Not to mention that fact that you are quoting Rose, who knows dick about dick.
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Havok wrote:They were the main weapons in the Time WAR. What about any of that sayS "Not military" to you?
Present. Evidence. Now.
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Tardis.Wikia wrote:The Time Lords used over a million Battle TARDISes. (PROSE: Peacemaker)
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Battle TARDISes. Which the Doctor's vessel is absolutely not.
In case you missed the analogy, battle TARDISes are to TARDISes as battleships are to ships.
By that standard, this is a warship:
And as you're including written sources, I can yes, confirm to you that the TARDIS is not armed in any way during the Time War as per Engines of War. Spoiler
Its only attack against Dalek ships when used by the War Doctor is to physically ram them.
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That set of dialogue goes against a lot of what we know what TARDIS'. Firstly, that the outer plasmic shell is insanely tough - even with every other system down, it can survive a space ship crashing directly into it (Horns of Nimon, that awful Titanic episode, etc).
The TARDIS does possess shields/forcefields of it's own, as seen numerous times (Horns of Nimon springs to mind), both merely atmopheric (Angry Scot Doctor sitting on top of TARDIS in space) and defensive (lots of dialogue from people such as Romana).
While we don't know the effect that Dalek weaponry might have on a fully functioning TARDIS, to say the ol' girl doesn't have any defences is clearly wrong.
Heck, in Creature From The Pit the TARDIS is not only able to withstand the gravitational forces exerted by a neutron star in extremely close proximity ... it does so while *pulling said star around*.
But what other people have said is true; TARDIS' were built to be a scientific observation and research vehicle.
Some of the novels have things like War TARDIS' but we've seen no evidence of those in the TV series. One novel had weapons fitted to the Doctor's TARDIS way back when it was in full service by it's original owner ... but again, no evidence of that in the show.
So the Doctor's TARDIS is ABSOLUTELY NOT a war ships, except you know, when he takes it into battle and rams Dalek saucers with the shields it doesn't have? OK dude.
And man you fucking SUCK at analogies. The TARDIS is a cargo tanker? No dude, it's a battleship with no guns.
But of course I am 100% correct that TARDISes were the main weapons in the Time War and the Time Lords are certainly a militarily organized group, but lets ignore that and just keep playing the semantics game about one particular TARDIS, despite my point being about the Time Lords overall.
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Much as I hate to agree with Havok, we can't use the Doctor's TARDIS as an example of what the Time Lords used in the war, since it was routinely called obsolete by pretty much every other Time Lord we saw, as far back as Tom Baker's era at least. It was a museum piece, it cannot be representative of modern Time Lord designs except as a lower limit.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
On a military, Dalek vs Time Lord level, however, it's quite correct. For instance, in the aforementioned Engines of War: Spoiler
The daleks destroy Battle Tardises in single volleys with a roughly 4:1 advantage once they're in real space, after all. Let alone obsolete type 40s.
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Havok wrote:Just because they don't use the same terminology doesn't me it is not a military equivalent. Apparently, you have to go to an Academy to be a Time Lord. TARDIS are strictly controlled technology. They have a service life and then get replaced. The Daleks freak the fuck out when they encounter one. The Doctor has repeatedly stated it's the most powerful ship in the universe. They were the main weapons in the Time WAR. What about any of that sayS "Not military" to you?
Well, fuck, I had to go to flight school to get a pilot's license, airplanes and helicopters have a limited service life, and lots of people freak the fuck out when they see one overhead - that doesn't mean all, or even most, aircraft are military even if aircraft have military applications.
Honestly, they seem to be more analogous to tanks or attack helicopters or maybe even harriers. And are you really comparing human civilians to Daleks? You know damn well what I mean, by "freak the fuck out". The Daleks aren't going "OMG WHAT IS THAT THING?!".
I got the impression the Time Lords modified some of the TARDISes for military use during war but that a lot of them were scientific/civilian in use.
As I posted already, no, they were created specifically for the Time War and battle.
If the Doctor's TARDIS is the "most powerful ship in the universe" that could just as well be because all the other more powerful ships were either destroyed in the Time War or trapped in the Time Lock.
He has out right said that IIRC, it still doesn't make it a false statement.
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NecronLord wrote:On a military, Dalek vs Time Lord level, however, it's quite correct. For instance, in the aforementioned Engines of War: Spoiler
The daleks destroy Battle Tardises in single volleys with a roughly 4:1 advantage once they're in real space, after all. Let alone obsolete type 40s.
And this means what? That Time Lords suck at making military vessels? So what. That has zero bearing on anything that has come up.
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Eternal_Freedom wrote:Much as I hate to agree with Havok,
Aww it ain't that bad buddy.
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It was in response to Parallax, who I suspect might be interested, not you. Here's yours.
Havok wrote:So the Doctor's TARDIS is ABSOLUTELY NOT a war ships, except you know, when he takes it into battle and rams Dalek saucers with the shields it doesn't have? OK dude.
And man you fucking SUCK at analogies. The TARDIS is a cargo tanker? No dude, it's a battleship with no guns.
But of course I am 100% correct that TARDISes were the main weapons in the Time War and the Time Lords are certainly a militarily organized group, but lets ignore that and just keep playing the semantics game about one particular TARDIS, despite my point being about the Time Lords overall.
Err no, you're not. You're claiming that dimensionally transcendental vehicles are a military technology. When there is no indication it is restricted to military vessels - which the TARDIS is not, despite its use in the war, which by the way, is: Spoiler
In a sequence where the Daleks punk the War Doctor for his hubris in attempting this and shoot the TARDIS down, before they are distracted by BattleTARDISes.
They use dimensional transcendence in their art. Are those war paintings now?
Provide evidence that dimensional transcendence is a military technology. Now.
Provide evidence that all TARDISes are intended for war. Now.
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Just because you can build a Battle TARDIs doesn't mean all TARDISs are warships. Quite the reverse. Fighting in the Time War just means the Time Lords have a military. Not that they are one themselves. Being a Time Lord is explicitly not being a soldier in this very episode.
Though he's quite right, i don't see the point of using Dimensional Transcendence for a barn.
Last edited by Crazedwraith on 2014-09-16 06:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nor do I, it was a joke. However the notion that dimensional transcendence is a solely military technology is... bollocks.
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I agree with Necronland here, there is no indication whatsoever that the Doctor's Tardis was specifically designed for war.
I wonder: how difficult was it to create these paintings? How common-place were they? Did they adorn every home, or were they only created to commemorate very important events in Time Lord history like the Fall of Arcadia?
Last edited by Tribble on 2014-09-16 07:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage
Given that the other three were small-ish landscapes, they can't have been solely reserved for epics.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."
Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
We don't know the context of those other paintings, so its hard to say for certain. They could have been very important locations on Gallifrey... or they could have been a picture of someone's backyard.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage
Tribble wrote:I agree with Necronland here, there is no indication whatsoever that the Doctor's Tardis was specifically designed for war.
No one said it was. Try reading.
And you can keep on agreeing with Necronlord GoalPostMover all you want. He keeps ignoring my points and cherry picking, which apparently he does all the time.
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Thank you. Because on Gallifrey the Time Lords ARE the military. As I have been saying and you have kept ignoring.
Notice how he doesn't call it "Gallifreyian art.", but specifically, "Time Lord art.". Oh but you probably just ignored that.
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Do you watch the fucking show?
Not to mention that fact that you are quoting Rose, who knows dick about dick.
