Doctor Who S34E4: "Listen" Spoilers

[jwl]

It could also be any other TL ever, and maybe Clara visited all of them?

I'm sure when Moffat tries his hand at the Master, Clara will have a formative role in his character too.

It doesn't even have to be a time lord. Just someone who wanted to be a time lord.

[NecronLord]

Which you then demanded evidence for, which I then provided, which you then IGNORED.

CONCEDE. NOW.

Or just keep being the goal post moving, dishonest debater you are.

Let's look at this.

Your original claim:

Yeah and the Doctor is the equivalent of a military officer and a Dalek prison a military one. The TARDIS also supplies his clothing, basically a military warship.

Your evidence all pertains to battle TARDISes and some Time Lords. You have not shown that the DOCTOR's TARDIS is a military one, or that the Doctor is in fact the Time Lord equivalent of a military officer: the things you claim.

I think only illustration will explain it to you.

[Bedlam]

aspect because it seems like a thread is forming about the Doctor vs. Soldiers. Incidentally, did Clara seriously leave a toy soldier for the Doctor ?

The genius is that its a soldier without a gun

[Havok]

Which you then demanded evidence for, which I then provided, which you then IGNORED.

CONCEDE. NOW.

Or just keep being the goal post moving, dishonest debater you are.

Let's look at this.

DISHONEST DEBATER IT IS! Raise your hand if you are shocked.

Your original claim:

Yeah and the Doctor is the equivalent of a military officer and a Dalek prison a military one. The TARDIS also supplies his clothing, basically a military warship.

No, dillhole my original claim was...

It is Time Lord tech, i.e., military tech. That doesn't mean that they use it to build barns.

Your evidence all pertains to battle TARDISes

Yes, and them being the main weapon of the Time Lords in the Time War. A correct claim which you still fail to concede you were wrong about.

and some Time Lords. You have not shown that the DOCTOR's TARDIS is a military one,

Of course it is. He had to steal it from a guarded military facility. It's not like it was just sitting in his garage or he bought it at the local used TARDIS dealer.

or that the Doctor is in fact the Time Lord equivalent of a military officer: the things you claim.

No, I said that Time Lords are the equivalent of military officers, a claim you obviously agree with based on your fancy graph. Concession: ACCEPTED
The assertion that The Doctor, being a Time Lord himself, is also the equivalent is implied because y'know, he's a Time Lord as he CONSTANTLY reminds everyone.

I think only illustration will explain it to you.

And here is my favorite part. This is where the dishonesty comes out so cleanly and crisply.
Your Graph shows a camouflaged TARDIS, meant to be inconspicuous and non threatening as a Police box, yet we know it to be a powerful basis for other weapons and itself so dangerous that it's destruction can SHATTER THE UNIVERSE, but yes, lets just keep going with it being a non-controlled civilian vessel.

On top of that, he shows The Doctor, in a bumbling and innocuous pose as if to say; "How can THIS guy be military?! He so SILLY!" when we know him to actually be a genocidal, mass murderer that completely disregards the laws of his own people, whom he killed, and who will gather armies and command them with no second thought given, but yeah, he isn't like a military officer analog at all right?
The only real thing GoalPostMover could actually argue is that The Doctor, a Time Lord, is not the equivalent of a military officer on his world anymore because he destroyed it and the Time Lords which he served.

And in the second set of pictures, he shows a Time Lord in armor and a TARDIS with TIME MISSILES and says this is not the same as the Doctor... because the Doctor doesn't wear his Time Lord armor/uniform and doesn't use missiles to fight from his TARDIS? Yet the Doctor constantly proclaims his Time Lord status and routinely talks about his TARDIS, how dangerous it can be and it's levels of power.

So they guy that stands by his assertion that the Doctor's TARDIS has no shields is going to say that the Doctor is some different type or Time Lord than all the other Time Lords, even though he is subject to punishment by them? OK dude.

And do you know the meanings of words? Apparently not.
Basically: "in the most essential respects; fundamentally."

So, now that we know that, please show how in the most essential and fundamental aspects that the Doctors TARDIS, is not basically, like Battle/War TARDISes.

Like I said, it is a battleship with no guns. It is NOT as you alluded to, a cargo ship analog. A cargo ship is not the foundation of a warship. The TARDIS IS the foundation of a Battle/War TARDIS. (Psssst... the names kinda give it away there sport.)

Lock and load your next set of GPMs and dishonest posts.

[NecronLord]

What you call "Goal post moving" is saying "demonstrate how the TARDIS is a warship" and your response has been to talk about Battle TARDISes. Yeah, sure, it's the basis for them (or rather, they're a type of them) in the same way that a ship is the basis for a war ship, nothing more, nothing less. I have yet to see any evidence that the TARDIS is intended for warfare.

[Themightytom]

I liked it. They are obviously setting something up. The doctor seems to be time travelling around himself, just like with the spaceship full of angels episode. Who else could get in the TARDIS and write LISTEN on his board.. he probably teleported onto the bed and hid before his earlier self came in and had to hide under the bed spread.
At the end of time we didnt actually see if the doctor saw anything or not before "something hit him", it could even have been something trying to escape OUT of the timeship and it hit the doctor on the way out leaving the TARDIS to be attacked by whatever was chasing

[Enigma]

Havok, you talk about moving goalposts and yet you move them back and forth so quickly one would think you had Parkinson's. You claim that the Doctor's TARDIS was a military vessel and then you claim it wasn't and then you went back to claiming it was. What is it? Military or not?

TARDIS was not created initially for military purposes. It was repurposed into making Battle TARDISes and War TARDISes. Just like the automobile was civilian technology and which the military used that technology to create Jeeps, Hummers, tanks, and so on and so forth. Or are you going to also claim that the Model T, or the Mustang is also military technology? Is a cruise ship = warship since both are ships?

Time Lord technology is not the same as saying that it is military technology since the Time Lords are more than simply little tin soldiers. Yes, they can weapons like the D-Mat gun for defense purposes but they do create technology that was not created with the military in mind but was repurposed for the military.

In summary, TARDIS is not military but War and Battle TARDISes are. Time Lords have the technology that can be repurposed for military needs. Also the TLs as a whole are not strictly military, they may have dedicated factions dedicated to their armed forces but as a whole they are not.

[mr friendly guy]

Havok, you talk about moving goalposts and yet you move them back and forth so quickly one would think you had Parkinson's. You claim that the Doctor's TARDIS was a military vessel and then you claim it wasn't and then you went back to claiming it was. What is it? Military or not?

TARDIS was not created initially for military purposes. It was repurposed into making Battle TARDISes and War TARDISes. Just like the automobile was civilian technology and which the military used that technology to create Jeeps, Hummers, tanks, and so on and so forth. Or are you going to also claim that the Model T, or the Mustang is also military technology? Is a cruise ship = warship since both are ships?

Time Lord technology is not the same as saying that it is military technology since the Time Lords are more than simply little tin soldiers. Yes, they can weapons like the D-Mat gun for defense purposes but they do create technology that was not created with the military in mind but was repurposed for the military.

In summary, TARDIS is not military but War and Battle TARDISes are. Time Lords have the technology that can be repurposed for military needs. Also the TLs as a whole are not strictly military, they may have dedicated factions dedicated to their armed forces but as a whole they are not.

Just like to point out Parkinson causes patients to move slower, not fast.

But back on topic, I agree with you. In the classic series we see most of the Time Lords behaving like civilian politicians, rather than generals. The only thing close to a military was the guard, and its pretty much stated they are Time Lords as opposed to the average citizen of Gallifrey. So the line about joining the army indicates type of crossover between the military and Time Lords. That is there are some military positions that Time Lords can fill eg the Guards in the classic series and some leadership roles but there are also positions in the military ie army filled by non Time Lord Gallifreyans.