Alien method of reproduction

[Korto]

Some time ago, I created the Tai!Qu race; your basic super-strong melee-loving aliens. For a quick physical description, they're vaguely ape-like, weigh over 600kg, and are easily capable of picking up and throwing your car at you - although they have no stamina, as they evolved as jungle ambushers, not plains pursuers.
Originally, as an explanation of their hypertrophied strength and toughness, I decided they used fighting for mates as sex selection, which over the millions of years had had the obvious effect. But this is really an earth-method, and I've been trying to come up with something a bit different, but still viable.

Today, I came up with this:
They have an organ within them, which develops in maturity, and is primarily responsible for releasing various hormones. It has a reproductive role, however. Whenever a Tai!Qu kills another, he can rip out and consume this organ (from the other, obviously), and then its genetic information is saved within his own organ, plus the information from any previous victims the loser himself had 'saved'. (This has to done quickly, as it deteriorates quickly).
Later, when Tai!Qu's biological clock reaches midnight, the 'Change' happens; the organ releases the genetic information it had saved into the body entire, where they develop into cysts all through the body, inside which are embryos created from a combination of saved genetic information and the host's. The greater the variety of genes gathered (more victims), the more young develop. These cysts quite rapidly develop, finally maturing at about the size of soccer balls, when finally they burst open. Now, the host Tai!Qu is quite excessively weakened by the whole growing process, rendered invalid and close to death. Just one bursting cyst would likely kill the host (the physical damage, and the body being flooded with the cyst fluid), which would then doom all the others; so they all burst at the same time.
The young are then cared for by the clan.


Points
* While there would be clan-feeling for the young, there wouldn't be any close filial bond. This could mean it's standard practice to treat all clan children as a mass - common dorms, mess halls, etc.
* Extremely prickly relationships with other clans. As you hardly want to go around killing your own clan members, it's other clans you look to for 'donors'.
* For maximum success in passing on their genes, they need to go through the 'Change' (hopefully I'll come up with a better name). For minimal success, they need their organ to be consumed by another. Dying before the Change and not being consumed is reproductive failure. Evolution has bred into them that it's better to die fighting, face to face, then die hiding, far away.

With modern technology, they're no longer strictly held to their evolved limitations and requirements. They can now preserve and grow the organ in the lab (it's a popular dish), although they find it's much less effective for reproduction this way. They managed to keep a host alive through the 'birthing' process, although the host was permanently physically wrecked, and was mercy-killed shortly afterward.

[Grumman]

Evolution has bred into them that it's better to die fighting, face to face, then die hiding, far away.

I assume this would also mean that the former are unlikely to attack the latter, since a Tai!Qu that eats the organs of "weak" Tai!Qu will have "weak" children while a Tai!Qu that eats the organs of "strong" Tai!Qu will have "strong" children. While such a species clearly doesn't have a cannibalism taboo, killing non-participants might be taboo the same way incestual relationships are among humans.

[madd0ct0r]

How is the DNA equivalent paired off? The host would need to get more out of the arrangement then the hosted. You'd need some of the host in each young otherwise getting eaten might be a more efficient evolutionary option
How do they treat those who die of other causes?

[Lord Revan]

this seems to have problem of being "alien" for it's own sake, which sadly a quite common issue when people create alien species. While it's to have alien species that are something else then "humans with few wierd things", there should logic as to why things are the way they are, besides "I want to to be different".

[Borgholio]

An alien method of reproduction could be something that is simply not seen in higher lifeforms here on Earth. For instance, budding. We know single-celled organisms do it but most higher creatures on Earth have sexual reproduction. It would seem quite alien to us if we found a technological species that actually budded asexually the way an amoeba would.

[LadyTevar]

I have to wonder if you haven't forgotten a side of this.. While it is a great idea to have sexual selection based on fighting strength, I would think the weaker, lesser 'males' would have a sneakier way to get their genetics spread.

Take, for example, the common Garden Snake. When the females awaken from winter hibernation, they are swarmed by males in huge mating balls. However, some of the males have evolved to fake female sex hormones. As the other males try to mate (unsuccessfully) with him, he is able to get closer to the female and deposit his sperm. There are other examples in Earth fauna of a dimorphism between larger and smaller males. The larger Alphas use strength to mate with all the females, the smaller ones use stealth to sneak a mating behind the Alpha male's back.

Even humans have this trick. In many hunter-gatherer societies where Albinoism is not uncommon, the males with that stigma were left to do 'womens work' because of the infirmeries that come with Albinoism. That left young men plenty of time to spread his seed with whichever woman was willing at the time. Thus, Albinoism continued to be strongly in the gene pool.

So. In your world, where eating an organ gets you genetics, what is the Weak Male's trick to pass genetics? Ambush and Murder? False Advertising? Investing more of himself into the few cysts he produces (K vs R brooding)? Or even having an organ that due to his lifestyle has a better flavor, due to a lack of (testosterone equiv) a fighting male would have? There's options, always options, for evolution to make sure genetics get passed about.

[Bedlam]

Well its a rather extreme difference but maybe play dead and have more than one of the 'seeding' organs, you get to pass on your gene's to the next generations several times without having to win a fight.

It seems to me that this system has a few selection problems, sure the strongest get to have more children because they beat more opponents but the ones that loose breed as well to pass on their 'loose fight' genes.

[Grumman]

It seems to me that this system has a few selection problems, sure the strongest get to have more children because they beat more opponents but the ones that loose breed as well to pass on their 'loose fight' genes.

Presumably the "lose fight" genes are less bad than the "don't fight" genes. Hell, that's probably the ultimate insult - to let your opponent live because you don't want its genes polluting your children's genepool.

[Korto]

I will have to draw a clear distinction as well between the system as it evolved in the setting of small tribal groups within dense jungle; and how it fits in now, with an advanced space-faring race.

Anyway, one at a time
For now, I'm going to try out the name "pods' for this sex organ. It's likely they have multiple, as they have back-ups of anything else important.

I assume this would also mean that the former are unlikely to attack the latter, since a Tai!Qu that eats the organs of "weak" Tai!Qu will have "weak" children while a Tai!Qu that eats the organs of "strong" Tai!Qu will have "strong" children. While such a species clearly doesn't have a cannibalism taboo, killing non-participants might be taboo the same way incestual relationships are among humans.

They don't draw a strong distinction between "combatant" and "non-combatant" like we do. Just because you kill someone, doesn't mean you have to "eat his pods".
They have a taboo against killing and eating the pods of someone in their own clan; that's something they view with similar horror as incest and cannibalism. However, if someone doesn't belong to the clan, this doesn't apply to them at all.

How is the DNA equivalent paired off? The host would need to get more out of the arrangement then the hosted. You'd need some of the host in each young otherwise getting eaten might be a more efficient evolutionary option
How do they treat those who die of other causes?

Each young is half acquired genes, half host, analogous to our own where the donor and host each combine. So the host passes her (just realising, if this thing is to be called "he" or "she", "she" is more accurate) genes to all her young, but individual donors may or may not be well-represented in the random mixing - some may even miss out completely while others are over-represented.
Those that died of other causes used to be shit out of luck. Modern day, some clans extract and trade their pods to other clans; most don't, however; there's a shame to being eaten, similar to being the "female" in an ancient Roman homosexual relationship; and on the other side, if they didn't die in combat, what did they die of? Were they weak in some way that'll be passed on? However, they certainly wouldn't be eaten within her own clan. That's just sick.

this seems to have problem of being "alien" for it's own sake, which sadly a quite common issue when people create alien species. While it's to have alien species that are something else then "humans with few wierd things", there should logic as to why things are the way they are, besides "I want to to be different".

Fair comment, and undeniable since I practically said as much in the OP. However, the race originally was to a horrible degree "EARTH APES... IN SPAAAACCCCEEEEE!!!!" There's things in this that provide an explanation for their racial character (violent, with a love of close combat), and suggests other features, for instance that there are no "families" as we think them, they live more communally, with dormitories, mess-halls, etc. If injecting this leads to a race not only more alien, but more rounded and real, I don't care how the feature first originated.

An alien method of reproduction could be something that is simply not seen in higher lifeforms here on Earth. For instance, budding. We know single-celled organisms do it but most higher creatures on Earth have sexual reproduction. It would seem quite alien to us if we found a technological species that actually budded asexually the way an amoeba would.

True, but not for these guys. Maybe someone else.

I have to wonder if you haven't forgotten a side of this.. While it is a great idea to have sexual selection based on fighting strength, I would think the weaker, lesser 'males' would have a sneakier way to get their genetics spread.
<snip>
So. In your world, where eating an organ gets you genetics, what is the Weak Male's trick to pass genetics? Ambush and Murder? False Advertising? Investing more of himself into the few cysts he produces (K vs R brooding)? Or even having an organ that due to his lifestyle has a better flavor, due to a lack of (testosterone equiv) a fighting male would have? There's options, always options, for evolution to make sure genetics get passed about.

Good thought. I think the ambush and murder seems the best option. These guys are already ambush hunters, who grow up in groups - the idea of a small group going out into enemy territory to ambush someone doesn't seem far-fetched. It could also be argued to result in a race very good at laying, and detecting, ambushes. At least in jungles.
Modern day, as they no longer live in small tribes relatively close together, this is no longer as easy. However, they can now grow pods from stem cell equivalents (taken from slain members of other clans), taking the need away (but not the desire).

Well its a rather extreme difference but maybe play dead and have more than one of the 'seeding' organs, you get to pass on your gene's to the next generations several times without having to win a fight.

It seems to me that this system has a few selection problems, sure the strongest get to have more children because they beat more opponents but the ones that loose breed as well to pass on their 'loose fight' genes.

As said, they probably would have multiple pods, but it's still not a good plan. It wasn't relevant, so I didn't mention that these guys consume huge amounts of food. They're not going to leave half a ton of fresh meat just lying there.
While fight losers will pass on their genes to a few, the winners pass on to many.

Presumably the "lose fight" genes are less bad than the "don't fight" genes. Hell, that's probably the ultimate insult - to let your opponent live because you don't want its genes polluting your children's genepool.

Close. Meat's meat, but you don't have to eat the pods. The ultimate insult is, after you kill someone, to dig the pods out and throw them away.
It may be - just a thought I'm having now - that they are instinctively quite discriminating about the pods they eat, and will reject those that don't meet standards. As jungle ambushers they may have a very acute sense of smell, and modern day when some is purchased a short life story of the victim may be necessary, to get past not having seen him.

[Purple]

If now a days the pods can be grown what is the attitude toward growing pods based on your self and basically self fertilizing?

[Broomstick]

I see several alternatives with that:

1) EWW! That's like eating a clan member/cannibalism/incest you SICK SICK THING YOU! absolutely forbidden.

2) No one gives a damn

3) Tolerated, but those who utilize it are seen as somehow defective because if they were able wouldn't they do things the traditional way?

4) Acceptable only under unusual circumstances (hero wounded in epic battle such she can't kill and eat adversaries anymore, but such a hero society wants her to reproduce her epic genes).

This sort of divergence in views can even be the source of differing groups in a space-faring race, with some holding one view and others another.

[cmdrjones]

Another option would be the "Trojan horse" errr "Trojan Ape" where you deliberately ambush members of another clan that are seen as desirable by baiting them into ambushes by presenting them with "easy" prey. So, a genetic Niche for "loser" genes would still be there. Also, in the more modern era, "losers" could sign up to get killed on TV or in gladiatorial combats just to ensure SOME of their genetics get passed on. (i.e. you last to the third round, then one of our people HAS to eat your pod, AND film it... its in the contract) or conversely, you could have "sneaky" types being utilized in complex smash and grab "black bag" ops to kidnap desirable members of other clans. Sort of a throwback in their society similar to how ISIS is viewed by us today.

[Patroklos]

My first thought was how this would affect organized warfare where hatred or an ideological grudge was involved. In this case you might kill a worthy opponent with all the combat prowess the species finds desirable but by eating their organs you are essentially accepting family links with your hated enemy. Do you then hate your offspring that are defendants of a faction you continue to struggle against?Or maybe it's a "ha I Amy raising your offspring douche!" sort of dynamic?

In either case it would seem warfare would be brutal but short as within short order all parties will be linked by family ties.

[phred]

My first thought was how this would affect organized warfare where hatred or an ideological grudge was involved. In this case you might kill a worthy opponent with all the combat prowess the species finds desirable but by eating their organs you are essentially accepting family links with your hated enemy. Do you then hate your offspring that are defendants of a faction you continue to struggle against?Or maybe it's a "ha I Am raising your offspring douche!" sort of dynamic?

In either case it would seem warfare would be brutal but short as within short order all parties will be linked by family ties.

I would imagine that the birth parent/offspring would be the only family tie that matters. That is MY Child/Parent, with a little less emphasis on grandparents/children. The other DNA is just a donor. They would probably have wars over ideological differences, but the idea of a master race wouldn't come up as easily since everyone mixes races anytime they reproduce. Not to mention the whole 'your daddy made great kebabs' thing.

The wars would probably be pretty short because after a few days everyone is either dead or pregnant. Unless there's some way to postpone that part. How long do the pods last after death?

[Korto]

If now a days the pods can be grown what is the attitude toward growing pods based on your self and basically self fertilizing?

In the main, this is considered incredibly wrong, unthinkably sick, and mob justice would quickly put an end to it, but there are countless clans scattered through the stars, so there's a good chance there's a few out there who might do it.

A reminder - The pods deteriorate quickly; while they can now be stored, if the proper medical equipment is available, traditionally they're eaten at the scene if possible. The DNA (analogue) is then stored in the victor's own pods.
The Tai!Qu goes on as normal. She (It? English has no gender neutral singular personal pronouns) only becomes "pregnant" when their "biological clock" decides it's time. Sort of like menopause, or puberty. The body just decides it's time.
"Giving birth" results in the death of the parent.

I'm seeing these pods as being inside the Tai!Qu's brain, making them impossible to remove without either death, or extensive medical equipment. They also carry out an important hormone role in normal life.


Socially, morally, they're very polarised. Someone is either a clan-member, or they're not, and if they're not then they're considered no more then any other dangerous prey. They know the foreigner belongs to their own clan, they have thoughts and feelings, and is just like them, etc, but they're not clan, end of story. There's no animus in this, clans may trade between each other, make contracts, and get along fine, but in the end each considers the other no more than walking, talking pork chops.
Oddly enough, they're a very moral race. For their view of morality.
So Patroklos, the only bond is clan bond. There's no ties to anyone else.
Special Note: A Tai!Qu may sign on with some (non-clan) group, and if it's a tight "family" group, and away from their clan, they will often come to consider the group their "adoptive clan". Eg, signing with an alien space ship crew. This works best with human groups. Who are less inclined to try to eat you.


The idea of deliberately capturing foreigners for televised gladiatorial games is a good one. Anyone who would deliberately lose to be eaten would be someone they would consider not worth eating, but that would be unnecessary. The prisoner could be (honestly) promised that if he wins, he gets the pods, and if he wins X fights, he'll be released.


Here's something to consider - the Tai!Qu are an artistic race, their dominant style is similar to roccoco. Now, reproduction is one of THE major inspirations for our art (including art of attractive individuals, romance, sex, birth). I'm picturing art where a major component is people (Tai!Qu people) being ripped apart, skulls smashed, the brains eaten raw, and not as horror but as we would show lovers entwined naked.

[Broomstick]

Here's something to consider - the Tai!Qu are an artistic race, their dominant style is similar to roccoco. Now, reproduction is one of THE major inspirations for our art (including art of attractive individuals, romance, sex, birth). I'm picturing art where a major component is people (Tai!Qu people) being ripped apart, skulls smashed, the brains eaten raw, and not as horror but as we would show lovers entwined naked.

That is a very intriguing, horrifying, alien, and fascinating idea.

[LaCroix]

Come to think of it - being a surgeon would be a job akin to really perverted porn star. You slice people up and dig into their entrails, but don't eat. Like having non-procreational sex, all the time, and getting paid for it.